School leaving age may be raised

[Lazarus 0]

Bad news for Brock

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6135516.stm

 

England's education secretary is said to be exploring ways to raise the school leaving age to 18.

 

Alan Johnson told political journalists that "staying on" rates must improve.

 

He said it was unacceptable for a 16-year-old to be in employment without getting help with continued schooling or training for qualifications.

 

An aide said later that ways of overcoming the complex legal problems associated with raising the leaving age were under consideration in Whitehall.

 

Figures published in June show 76.2% of 16 to 18-year-olds in England are in education or training, rather than in employment.

 

The leaving age was last raised, from 15 to 16, in 1972.

 

Click here for a history of the changes

 

'Unacceptable'

 

At a Westminster lunch, Mr Johnson said: "Forty, 50, 60 years ago, seeing a 14-year-old at work was perfectly acceptable.

 

"Now it is totally unacceptable.

 

"And it should be just as unacceptable to see a 16-year-old just working and not doing anything else, not receiving any training or schooling."

 

 

Young people have got to get the qualifications that are necessary for the future

Chancellor Gordon Brown

 

Mr Johnson said the UK could learn form other countries, notably Canada, where schemes to encourage young people to stay on in education had proved successful.

 

The matter was the most important facing his department, he said.

 

"It has all kinds of social ramifications for our citizens ... to engage children in education in a far better way and to end the situation where at the moment they switch off mentally at 14, before leaving school physically at 16, which is why we have got one of the worst staying-on records in the world."

 

A source close to Mr Johnson later confirmed that the issue was being given active consideration within the education department.

 

It was said to be at an early stage, and legally complex.

 

On a visit to Canada in September, Mr Johnson had been impressed by the way a similar change had been effected in Ontario by a threat to stop youngsters having driving licences if they did not stay in school.

 

When Chancellor Gordon Brown was asked specifically about the issue while on an educational visit in Nottingham on Friday, he said young people needed qualifications in a post-industrial economy.

 

"Young people have got to get the qualifications that are necessary for the future," said Mr Brown.

 

But on the specific issue of compulsion, he said: "I think what we're talking about is part-time or full-time in college, in school or in the workplace, but with everybody having the chance to stay in education until they are 18."

 

'Priority'

 

A spokesman for the Department for Education and Skills said improving "staying on" rates was a "priority for this government".

 

"We have already stated our aspiration to increase participation at 17 to at least 90% by 2015 from our current level of around 75% and we want every 16 to 18 year old to take advantage of the range of education and training opportunities available to them.

 

"Through new diplomas and the expansion of apprenticeships, we want to make sure that every young person as the opportunity to pursue a learning programme that suits them post-16."

 

One of the main initiatives to improve "staying on" rates is the education maintenance allowance (EMA).

 

This gives means-tested payments of up to £30 a week to those who continue studying after 16.

 

Home educators point out that, while education is compulsory, schooling is not.

 

LEAVING EDUCATION

 

In the latter part of the 19th Century, compulsory attendance at school ceased to be a matter for local option. Children had to attend between the ages of five and 10 though with some local discretion such as early leaving in agricultural areas.

 

1893 - leaving age raised to 11

1899 - leaving age raised to 12

1918 - full-time education compulsory from 5 to 14, exemptions dropped

1936 - leaving age to be raised to 15 from 1939, not implemented because of the outbreak of war

1944 - legislation to enable raising leaving age to 15, and 16 "as soon as it was practicable"

1947 - leaving age raised to 15

1959 - report recommending leaving age of 16

1963 - another report recommended 16

1964 - preparations for change begin

1968 - change postponed

1971 - leaving age raised to 16 from September 1972

1997 - all children must remain in education until the last schoolday in June in the year they turn 16

[Ted Maul 0]

I was bored at work a week or two back so it got me thinking about the education system. Rather than have two years at college there should be a compulsory Year 12 straight after GCSEs (9am-3:30pm, typical school day). Based on what the student wants to study at University they'll get a timetable of 3 subjects (Say the student wants to do Journalism, they can do English Language, Media Studies and History or something along those lines). It would be possible to get the same amount of contact time for a full two years into one year and probably cut out all the shite aswell.

 

I spent two years at college and got precisely fuck all out of it apart from 3 D's. I think they really need to change the way A-levels are taught.

[luckyluke 2]

I was bored at work a week or two back so it got me thinking about the education system. Rather than have two years at college there should be a compulsory Year 12 straight after GCSEs (9am-3:30pm, typical school day). Based on what the student wants to study at University they'll get a timetable of 3 subjects (Say the student wants to do Journalism, they can do English Language, Media Studies and History or something along those lines). It would be possible to get the same amount of contact time for a full two years into one year and probably cut out all the shite aswell.

 

I spent two years at college and got precisely fuck all out of it apart from 3 D's. I think they really need to change the way A-levels are taught.

 

I shudder to think how I would have coped with my two years of biology, chemistry and maths crammed into one year.

 

If you feel you didn't do very well at college, how is halving the time you spend there going to achieve anything?

[Rob W 0]

It'll be a disaster unles s they teach the kids sommat useful

[Ted Maul 0]

I was bored at work a week or two back so it got me thinking about the education system. Rather than have two years at college there should be a compulsory Year 12 straight after GCSEs (9am-3:30pm, typical school day). Based on what the student wants to study at University they'll get a timetable of 3 subjects (Say the student wants to do Journalism, they can do English Language, Media Studies and History or something along those lines). It would be possible to get the same amount of contact time for a full two years into one year and probably cut out all the shite aswell.

 

I spent two years at college and got precisely fuck all out of it apart from 3 D's. I think they really need to change the way A-levels are taught.

 

I shudder to think how I would have coped with my two years of biology, chemistry and maths crammed into one year.

 

If you feel you didn't do very well at college, how is halving the time you spend there going to achieve anything?

 

The fact I didn't do well wasn't because I found it difficult, just because I was bone idle. Alot of the stuff I was taught at A-level I was also taught at GCSE which made me lose intrest fairly quickly. I can only speak from my experience but I think if I spent as much time in college as I did School i'd have been able to perform just as well in my final exams than I did having two years of intermittent learning.

[manc-mag 1]

I remember when A-Levels were still hard. Shows I'm getting on.

[Guest Patrokles]

I was bored at work a week or two back so it got me thinking about the education system. Rather than have two years at college there should be a compulsory Year 12 straight after GCSEs (9am-3:30pm, typical school day). Based on what the student wants to study at University they'll get a timetable of 3 subjects (Say the student wants to do Journalism, they can do English Language, Media Studies and History or something along those lines). It would be possible to get the same amount of contact time for a full two years into one year and probably cut out all the shite aswell.

 

I spent two years at college and got precisely fuck all out of it apart from 3 D's. I think they really need to change the way A-levels are taught.

 

I always thought that was how it works for most anyway. I did English, History, and Govt. & Politics A-level, took English at Uni. Same for most people at my school. (in terms of A-level subjects->Uni). Most people know by A-level what they're interested in/good at, then they study it at A-level, then naturally they'll retain a similar interest for Uni.

[snakehips 0]

I remember when A-Levels were still hard. Shows I'm getting on.

 

I'm sure hips jnr would debate that with you

 

I can't believe that the amount of studying which he does is the same as was required in times gone by. He never stops and he is quite a bright lad, so the amount he does is not through difficulty to understand what is required.

[manc-mag 1]

I remember when A-Levels were still hard. Shows I'm getting on.

 

I'm sure hips jnr would debate that with you

 

I can't believe that the amount of studying which he does is the same as was required in times gone by. He never stops and he is quite a bright lad, so the amount he does is not through difficulty to understand what is required.

 

Cool your hips man! What I said isn't the same as saying your son isnt clever! He's clearly very conscienscious!

[snakehips 0]

I remember when A-Levels were still hard. Shows I'm getting on.

 

I'm sure hips jnr would debate that with you

 

I can't believe that the amount of studying which he does is the same as was required in times gone by. He never stops and he is quite a bright lad, so the amount he does is not through difficulty to understand what is required.

 

Cool your hips man! What I said isn't the same as saying your son isnt clever! He's clearly very conscienscious!

 

Dees hips iz cooool, mon

 

When I posted that schpeel, I couldn't believe I was defending a fucking student!!!! Remind me to give him a belt when he gets in!

 

btw I wasn't defending his intelligence for one second, I just meant that for all these comments I hear on tv and radio regarding A levels getting easier, I can't recall my sisters (all uber qualified) doing half as much work as my son.

 

I do get the impression though that a lot of what he is required to do is actually down to lazy teachers as since the advent of tinternet, the methods of teaching both he and my daughter heavily involve hours on-line. Studying, I might add, as opposed to looking at porn or MSN.

[manc-mag 1]

I remember when A-Levels were still hard. Shows I'm getting on.

 

I'm sure hips jnr would debate that with you

 

I can't believe that the amount of studying which he does is the same as was required in times gone by. He never stops and he is quite a bright lad, so the amount he does is not through difficulty to understand what is required.

 

Cool your hips man! What I said isn't the same as saying your son isnt clever! He's clearly very conscienscious!

 

Dees hips iz cooool, mon

 

When I posted that schpeel, I couldn't believe I was defending a fucking student!!!! Remind me to give him a belt when he gets in!

 

btw I wasn't defending his intelligence for one second, I just meant that for all these comments I hear on tv and radio regarding A levels getting easier, I can't recall my sisters (all uber qualified) doing half as much work as my son.

 

I do get the impression though that a lot of what he is required to do is actually down to lazy teachers as since the advent of tinternet, the methods of teaching both he and my daughter heavily involve hours on-line. Studying, I might add, as opposed to looking at porn or MSN.

 

For what it's worth, my view is (and it's only conjecture on my part) the standards of A-Levels have dropped slightly down the years but conversely, pupils study harder these days as they are more conscientious as competition is more fierce. Consequently I dont actually have any issue with the fact that (in my view) the exams are easier. I think the kids deserve what they get for their very hard work.

[Brock Manson 0]

I'm off to uni (acceptance-permitting) next year so it won't affect me.

 

Seems a very silly idea this. Most kids drop out of school here because they're either too thick, stoned or seeking a career in dealing.

[luckyluke 2]

I was bored at work a week or two back so it got me thinking about the education system. Rather than have two years at college there should be a compulsory Year 12 straight after GCSEs (9am-3:30pm, typical school day). Based on what the student wants to study at University they'll get a timetable of 3 subjects (Say the student wants to do Journalism, they can do English Language, Media Studies and History or something along those lines). It would be possible to get the same amount of contact time for a full two years into one year and probably cut out all the shite aswell.

 

I spent two years at college and got precisely fuck all out of it apart from 3 D's. I think they really need to change the way A-levels are taught.

 

I shudder to think how I would have coped with my two years of biology, chemistry and maths crammed into one year.

 

If you feel you didn't do very well at college, how is halving the time you spend there going to achieve anything?

 

The fact I didn't do well wasn't because I found it difficult, just because I was bone idle. Alot of the stuff I was taught at A-level I was also taught at GCSE which made me lose intrest fairly quickly.

 

Well you're the one at fault rather than the system then! I don't remember there being much overlap with my subjects, I guess it's easier to keep things seperate with the sciences though.

[Tooj 17]

He must have got a promotion then....

 

[TheInspiration 1]

As Brock said, those who drop out don't have hope anyway, so this rule is a bit silly. Going on to fail all your A levels won't get you anywhere.

 

I'm still at school (sixth-form), as most here would probably guess...

[Rob W 0]

"For what it's worth, my view is (and it's only conjecture on my part) the standards of A-Levels have dropped slightly down the years but conversely, pupils study harder these days as they are more conscientious as competition is more fierce. Consequently I dont actually have any issue with the fact that (in my view) the exams are easier. I think the kids deserve what they get for their very hard work."

 

haven't laughed so much in YEARS

 

40 years ago only the top 15% of the school population took GCE's

 

Only 5% took A levels

 

There was no "Course work" - all straight examination

 

very few peopel got resits

[Guest Patrokles]

"For what it's worth, my view is (and it's only conjecture on my part) the standards of A-Levels have dropped slightly down the years but conversely, pupils study harder these days as they are more conscientious as competition is more fierce. Consequently I dont actually have any issue with the fact that (in my view) the exams are easier. I think the kids deserve what they get for their very hard work."

 

haven't laughed so much in YEARS

 

40 years ago only the top 15% of the school population took GCE's

 

Only 5% took A levels

 

There was no "Course work" - all straight examination

 

very few peopel got resits

 

Surely that backs up the notion that the competition is more fierce? There's no way in the world people are any more or less intelligent than they were 40 years ago.

[The Fish 11128]

I kind of get the impression that the teaching practises employed now are geared towards getting students through the exams, and not (as they should be) giving a genuine understanding of the subject to the kids.

 

It strikes me that modern 6th formschooling is the same as Driving lessons, you're taught to pass the test and only learn to drive after the examination.

 

my analogy is crap but I know what I mean

[Brock Manson 0]

I kind of get the impression that the teaching practises employed now are geared towards getting students through the exams, and not (as they should be) giving a genuine understanding of the subject to the kids.

 

It strikes me that modern 6th formschooling is the same as Driving lessons, you're taught to pass the test and only learn to drive after the examination.

 

my analogy is crap but I know what I mean

 

At the end of the day it's more the exam boards dictating what is taught in schools. Nothing really the schools themselves can do in terms of dictating the syllabus. There are just various modules available to be taught.

 

2/3 of my A level subjects have coursework, which is alot preferable as it gives an indication of the student's ability through the course of a term, as opposed to 2 hours in a pressured situation. You can get someone who does well in the subject in class, but has a mare of an exam and fails. With coursework, such a scenario isn't as devestating.

[The Fish 11128]

I kind of get the impression that the teaching practises employed now are geared towards getting students through the exams, and not (as they should be) giving a genuine understanding of the subject to the kids.

 

It strikes me that modern 6th formschooling is the same as Driving lessons, you're taught to pass the test and only learn to drive after the examination.

 

my analogy is crap but I know what I mean

 

At the end of the day it's more the exam boards dictating what is taught in schools. Nothing really the schools themselves can do in terms of dictating the syllabus. There are just various modules available to be taught.

 

2/3 of my A level subjects have coursework, which is alot preferable as it gives an indication of the student's ability through the course of a term, as opposed to 2 hours in a pressured situation. You can get someone who does well in the subject in class, but has a mare of an exam and fails. With coursework, such a scenario isn't as devestating.

 

 

when I was a kid I much preferred exams to coursework because I found them easy and more structured than essays and the like.

 

unfortunately this didn't prepare me for higher education so the culture shock scared the bejeezus out of me.

 

Has anyone on here taken IB? I've heard they're better guages for a kids potential at Uni than A-Levels.

[Guest Patrokles]

I kind of get the impression that the teaching practises employed now are geared towards getting students through the exams, and not (as they should be) giving a genuine understanding of the subject to the kids.

 

It strikes me that modern 6th formschooling is the same as Driving lessons, you're taught to pass the test and only learn to drive after the examination.

 

my analogy is crap but I know what I mean

 

At the end of the day it's more the exam boards dictating what is taught in schools. Nothing really the schools themselves can do in terms of dictating the syllabus. There are just various modules available to be taught.

 

2/3 of my A level subjects have coursework, which is alot preferable as it gives an indication of the student's ability through the course of a term, as opposed to 2 hours in a pressured situation. You can get someone who does well in the subject in class, but has a mare of an exam and fails. With coursework, such a scenario isn't as devestating.

 

 

when I was a kid I much preferred exams to coursework because I found them easy and more structured than essays and the like.

 

unfortunately this didn't prepare me for higher education so the culture shock scared the bejeezus out of me.

 

Has anyone on here taken IB? I've heard they're better guages for a kids potential at Uni than A-Levels.

 

Ask T27 on N-O. He did them and says they show he's more intelligent than A-level types. Granted, he also wanted to compare GCSE scores to evaluate respective intellect, but still.

[The Fish 11128]

I barely even remember what subjects I took at GCSE... shows how relevant they are.

 

My Dad is Governor of Astley High School (probably suggested by my mam to get him out from under her feet now he's retired), he's looking into making radical changes there, including switching from A-Level to IB.

 

I know that the highest scoring state school and Private school both used IB, but I don't know how big a switch it would be from A-Level teaching.

 

He also wants to change the menu for school dinners and asked me what I thought about the Jamie Oliver thing... I mean, bloody hell... I'm not the model of good health am I.

 

It's nice to see him actually get excited about something, cos he's been bored shitless since retiring. Which reminds me, I have to deliver a speech at his "do" on the 2nd... haven't even started writing anythign yet

[Lazarus 0]

Whats IB?

 

Itchy bottom?

[DanTheMan 0]

International Baccularette.

 

A French-style diploma as an alternative to A-levels.