Martins

[geordieshandy 0]

After Sunday I would say that we arent capable of delivering the right service to Martins at all.

 

BUT

 

We arent capable of delivering a fucking pizza at the moment Emre, Parker and Duff seem the only ones who can pass a ball!

 

And yet half the time even they can't manage it.

 

What deliver the pizza's or pass the ball

 

 

Been late three times this week, still free pizza is not to be sniffed at.

[Baggio 0]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

You're a clueless arse. A few people rated Bellamy before he signed for Newcastle. He was a bargain and it was obvious in his very first game, if you couldn't see that it is confirmation you are blind as well as having poor judgment.

 

A few goals doesn't make Martins a better footballer than Bellamy. Bellamy is a support striker, again if you can't appreciate this - or the difference between the roles - by now and cling onto a goals stattistic then it is simply more added proof that you are clueless.

 

BTW, I am not avoiding any questions unlike quite a lot of people on here and NO. And to be honest, I don't give a flying fuck who is better than Craig Bellamy, all I saw is a player who was brilliant for

Newcastle United and prolonged Alan Shearers career by at least 2 years.

 

I mean, I can ask you a question. Are you really so dumb as you seem ? [but to be fair you aren't the only one]

Very very few had seen Bellamy never mind rate him Leazes. He was appalling all season at Coventry. He himself acknowledges that he had a poor time at Cov. He was injured prior to that at Norwich so how people had managed to rate him is beyond me. Norwichs live performances on telly were few and far between.

 

I thought his pace would be useful and a few Norwich fans I knew said he would do well but beyond that few people had a clue about him.

 

Shearer benefited, but it is daft to imply that the partnership was anything other than complimentary. Certainly 70 goals didnt score themselves. If it was that easy then the 27 year old Craig Bellamy would have more than Alan Shearer scored in those 3 seasons.

 

Martins needs time and decent players around him. It is unfortunate that some hanker after an arsehole who couldnt give a toss about anyone but himself. That statement is so bound up in empirical evidence that it doesnt need qualifying. Nor reiterating no matter how fanciful the defence of him can be.

 

Give Martins a chance and wait til we have someone worthy of the shirt to play alongside him. He has shown decent glimpes and scored good goals. However, he is ploughing a lonely furrow when we boot 50 yard balls over his head. We wont see anywhere near his potential in my view until we get shot of the current manager and/or replace half a dozen faces in the first team.

 

Well I thought he had good potential at Coventry, when he played through the middle near to Hartson it was obvious it was his best position rather than out wide where Strachan played him [good manager and better than Roeder because he's won the Scottish League ] and I was very pleased when we bought him, although I realise I have no proof of that, having said it on talk of the tyne and the old nufc.nu forum at the time.

 

Of course the partnership with Shearer was 2 way. But Bellamy and Robert DID catapult Newcastle from being a mid table team with no pace or creativity into a top 4 side.

 

Most players only care about themselves, people generally do. Bellamy however played over 50 games for Newcastle with a knee needing surgery, you won't find many players doing that.

 

Martins may just need a chance, but I - along with isegrim - share the concern over his wild finishing and slashing at chances. You either have it or you don't. Micky Quinn was a player who wasn't really good outside the box but inside he was deadly, accurate and came alive. You watch him...he only needed a split second and 99 times out of 100 he hit the target, no matter where or how the ball came to him, the keeper had to stop the ball or it would have been in. Thats an example of a limited player, but one who had the goalscoring knack. If Martins is going to be an out and out goalscorer, and not contribute much to team play, he needs to be accurate and take his opportunities to justify it. I obviously hope he does, as he has pace he would be hard to contain.

The purchase of Robert and Bellamy were right for the positions that needed filling at the time. They helped the rest of a very good midfield and attack push us to where we got. We also had a very effective Gary Speed and highly effective Dyer Solano conbination in Dec/Jan/Feb and more the second season. On top of that we had a bloke who could finish like no other Newcastle player (or any other club) recently had. They didnt catapult us, they were the last pieces of a jigsaw that was very effective.

Splitting hairs I know but it always suggests to me that they did more than the rest and they didnt. It was highly effective team play.

At present we are nowhere near buying for appropriate positions, have a bloke injured who could replace Alan Shearer but we will see, Martins is nowt but a youngun who needs time. He COULD be very good but we wont know til we sort out the rest of the shambles.

 

Even our back four in that first season of Hughes, Distin, Dabizas and O'Brien were light years ahead of our current set up.

 

Its hard to see one player from the current side who would oust one player from that side on current form.

Duff has the ability to but hasnt managed to as our system just isnt working for him either. Emre is a good player but limited when we need some physical presence. Parker is good but not as good as many rate him - certainly Gary Speed was better and offered more going forward. I would personally prefer to see him as a box to box player with somone commanding alongside him in the mould of Sissoko or Papa Diop.

Martins needs someone up front with him as I mentioned. The back four need binning altogether. Not one of them from Ramage, Taylor, Carr, Babayaro or Bramble is good enough for the shirt.

 

Its hard work at present but its been coming for a long long time. Mismanagement of players, wasting money on clueless managers aswell as players acting/playing like arseholes have all been evident since 2003-4. something has to change. Whether it is policy or personnel is open to debate but watching that shower of shite in a stadium well short of capacity should send alarm bells ringing.

 

Good post gram.

 

I agree, top post

 

LeazesMag - I'll ignore your insults as its clear you're still upset with me for saying your forum was shit

[TOPTOON 0]

Knew we should have gone for Andy Johnson!!

 

People were saying £8.5 m for him is expensive. Maybe so ......£10m for Martins!!

[Jimbo 175]

Knew we should have gone for Andy Johnson!!

 

People were saying £8.5 m for him is expensive. Maybe so ......£10m for Martins!!

 

 

I think hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Shearergol 0]

Knew we should have gone for Andy Johnson!!

 

People were saying £8.5 m for him is expensive. Maybe so ......£10m for Martins!!

 

 

I think hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

There were plenty of us saying we should sign him. That wasn't hindsight.

[Holden McGroin 6613]

Aye, after seeing a Youtube video no doubt.

 

Reckon I should put one up of myself. Only the good stuff like.

[Shearergol 0]

Aye, after seeing a Youtube video no doubt.

 

Reckon I should put one up of myself. Only the good stuff like.

 

I meant AJ by the way.

[Footsoldier 0]

Martins will have to show me a hell of a lot more than he has to convince me that he's not a total waste of money. I doubt if he can do that playing alongside a donkey like ameobi as together they are a relegation strike force. I'll be surprised if they can score 20 premier league goals between them this season and if they are our main strikers then we will be in a relegation dogfight. I see us as a bottom five team that will be saved only if there are a couple of really useless teams this season that can't get things going. Hopefully charlton and watford will save us.

 

There is no difference between ameobi with or without a hip injury. We are paying the penalty for persisting with such a mediocre player in such an important position. And for panic buying of martins. We can criticise the defence until the cows come home but the nigerians up front are sh!te

[Jem 0]

I don't think we expected Martins to be a top scorer like Shearer he will need some more time and maybe it would help him if we had a sensible formation with two real wingers like N'Zogbia and Milner.

I know this gets asked very often but what's up with Luque???

[Holden McGroin 6613]

I know this gets asked very often but what's up with Luque???

 

Doesnt want to be at the club tbh. No heart.

[Jem 0]

Well I still think we should of bought Dean Ashton and Sol Campbell but he's to old...not as old as sibierski but still to old to play for newcastle...

Roeder out!!!

[Guest Patrokles]

Well I still think we should of bought Dean Ashton and Sol Campbell but he's to old...not as old as sibierski but still to old to play for newcastle...

Roeder out!!!

 

By all accounts we tried but were knocked back for Ashton.

 

As for the earlier post about playing with wingers like N'Zogbia and Milner, unfortunately the two mentioned have seen a LOT of the ball in wide areas and have managed to deliver about 3 decent crosses all season, between them. So I'm afraid I can't agree that those two would be our saviours. Our single biggest problem when it comes to scoring is a lack of end product from wide areas, because we play for the width constantly; therefore you have to expect them to deliver. It ain't happening.

[Noelie 103]

Having watched a delayed tape of the Boro match Monday afternoon I must admit Martins looked better than he has in other games, with the right partner up front with him he might just be alright.

[Craig 6682]

Having watched a delayed tape of the Boro match Monday afternoon I must admit Martins looked better than he has in other games, with the right partner up front with him he might just be alright.

 

That's the big issue IMO - who is the right player for him? I have serious reservations that Owen & Martins are going to be too similar a player and lets face it, we're going to be sadly lacking in height up front. Martins is not a natural replacement for Shearer, neither is Owen.

 

And personally I don't think it's any coincidence that the best Newcastle United team I've ever watched consisted of two fantastic crossers of the ball (Gillespie & Ginola) and two/three blokes in the middle who were awesome in the air and deadly with their feet (Shearer/Ferdinand/Asprilla).

 

I'd hope we're looking at the likes of Ashton in January, not that I think West Ham will sell him as they seem to be hanging on the "it'll all come good when Ashton's back" line. Hell I even now wish we'd challenged Everton for James Beattie.

[sammynb 3368]

Having watched a delayed tape of the Boro match Monday afternoon I must admit Martins looked better than he has in other games, with the right partner up front with him he might just be alright.

 

That's the big issue IMO - who is the right player for him? I have serious reservations that Owen & Martins are going to be too similar a player and lets face it, we're going to be sadly lacking in height up front. Martins is not a natural replacement for Shearer, neither is Owen.

 

And personally I don't think it's any coincidence that the best Newcastle United team I've ever watched consisted of two fantastic crossers of the ball (Gillespie & Ginola) and two/three blokes in the middle who were awesome in the air and deadly with their feet (Shearer/Ferdinand/Asprilla).

 

I'd hope we're looking at the likes of Ashton in January, not that I think West Ham will sell him as they seem to be hanging on the "it'll all come good when Ashton's back" line. Hell I even now wish we'd challenged Everton for James Beattie.

I saw a highlights package of the 4-2 win against Villa in the 96/97 season (I think it was) and fuck Sir Les and Shearer were a sight to behold. Unfortunately the fucking idiots that produced the program did it to highlight Yorke's ability but I dream of a day where we can look forward to watching our strikers being as prolific as those two were together

[Guest alex]

If that's the match I'm thinking of (where Mark Draper was sent off iirc) Yorke scored a hattrick as we beat Villa 4-3 and in fairness he was absolutely superb that night. Single-handedly dragged them back into the match after they started the 2nd half 3-1 and a man down.

[TOPTOON 0]

It hasn't quite hapened for Martins yet but this is not through lack of effort or heart, he seems poised to turn the corner soon, its certainly too soon to write him off imo. Unlike Luque who's effort appears mimimal and has no pace or grit i'd certainly stick with Martins for now and if his head drops stick Rossi on. Martins though just needs a game where things go our way and he scores a couple of goals and he'll come good imo.

Edited October 24, 2006 by TOPTOON

[sweetleftpeg 0]

In defence of him, maybe if we stopped lumping balls onto his head then we might get more out of him.

[Shearergol 0]

In defence of him, maybe if we stopped lumping balls onto his head then we might get more out of him.

 

How else are we gonna get it to him?

[Tyne_Bridge 0]

I don't think we expected Martins to be a top scorer like Shearer he will need some more time and maybe it would help him if we had a sensible formation with two real wingers like N'Zogbia and Milner.

I know this gets asked very often but what's up with Luque???

 

I agree with you Jem (welcome here )

 

 

but tbh Newcastle is not the club every player runs to...maybe Roeder had no other choise?

 

whatever, I think Luque is still much better than the sib will be (well he scored...) and because of that Roeder should give him another chance tbh

[Dr Gloom 21965]

anyone's opinion changed?

 

i think he's looked better alongside dyer and sibierksi but he's still got a bit to do before we proves we didn't spend about £5m too much on him.

[TheInspiration 1]

I'm pleased he got a goal for the first time in a while. He could have had plenty by now, even with fairly poor movement. I'm confident he'll improve, and his penalty yesterday will serve as a confidence booster.

 

Also, I thought he was left-footed, but he took the penalty with his right. Strange.

[Dr Gloom 21965]

I'm pleased he got a goal for the first time in a while. He could have had plenty by now, even with fairly poor movement. I'm confident he'll improve, and his penalty yesterday will serve as a confidence booster.

 

Also, I thought he was left-footed, but he took the penalty with his right. Strange.

 

yeah - what was that about?

[TheInspiration 1]

I'm pleased he got a goal for the first time in a while. He could have had plenty by now, even with fairly poor movement. I'm confident he'll improve, and his penalty yesterday will serve as a confidence booster.

 

Also, I thought he was left-footed, but he took the penalty with his right. Strange.

 

yeah - what was that about?

Maybe he is right-footed actually. Or just really talented on both.

[gram 0]

I'm pleased he got a goal for the first time in a while. He could have had plenty by now, even with fairly poor movement. I'm confident he'll improve, and his penalty yesterday will serve as a confidence booster.

 

Also, I thought he was left-footed, but he took the penalty with his right. Strange.

 

yeah - what was that about?

Maybe he is right-footed actually. Or just really talented on both.

Obviously i m not in his league but i am left footed and tend to take pens with right, no idea why. always take longer range stuff with left cos its stronger. always do keepy uppies on right as well but almost entirely left footed other than those two things.