Martins

[wykikitoon 20234]

If the distribution to him was better, would he finish or fade away like he has been?

 

On Sunday in the first half he was hungry and looking for the goal. As the distribution was getting worse I think he got fed up and slipped away?

[zico martin 89]

If the distribution to him was better, would he finish or fade away like he has been?

 

On Sunday in the first half he was hungry and looking for the goal. As the distribution was getting worse I think he got fed up and slipped away?

 

yeah you can hardly blame him for getting pissed off can you? Do you think shevchenko or Kuyt would be faring in any better in our team?

[Baggio 0]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

[Renton 21643]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

To be fair to Baggio I thought he was talking about their respective reputations they bought to the club rather than what they did when they arrived here. It's a fairish point.

 

But I'd love an answer from LM on the last point, but he seems to have gone very quiet.

[Isegrim 9803]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

The difference is that it needed two league games for Bellamy to prove he was the perfect player for Newcastle regardless of what had been previously. So yes, for Newcastle Bellamy was the far better player when he arrived.

[Bombadil 0]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

To be fair to Baggio I thought he was talking about their respective reputations they bought to the club rather than what they did when they arrived here. It's a fairish point.

 

But I'd love an answer from LM on the last point, but he seems to have gone very quiet.

 

Let me do it for him. 5th best club in the country, always in Europe, England internationals, backs his manager, etc.

[Baggio 0]

The difference is that it needed two league games for Bellamy to prove he was the perfect player for Newcastle regardless of what had been previously. So yes, for Newcastle Bellamy was the far better player when he arrived.

 

As Renton has said, I was talking about their career before they joined Newcastle.

 

Having said that Bellamy did have the advantage of playing under a far superior manager who actually uses tactics, he also partnered one of the best strikers in the league at the time. Martins on the other hand has to play under a clueless manager with long ball tactics and has the pleasure of partnering either Shola or Sibierski.

 

If the whole team were playing well apart from Martins then I'd be worried about him, but as the whole team looks awful, is creating nothing and seems as motivated as they were under Souness then I'll reserve judgement on his Newcastle career.

 

The same as most have with Duff.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Baggio

[Guest Patrokles]

Would have been extremely interesting to see Martins alongside a 29/30 year-old Shearer, that's for sure.

[Isegrim 9803]

The difference is that it needed two league games for Bellamy to prove he was the perfect player for Newcastle regardless of what had been previously. So yes, for Newcastle Bellamy was the far better player when he arrived.

 

As Renton has said, I was talking about their career before they joined Newcastle.

 

Having said that Bellamy did have the advantage of playing under a far superior manager who actually uses tactics, he also partnered one of the best strikers in the league at the time. Martins on the other hand has to play under a clueless manager with long ball tactics and has the pleasure of partnering either Shola or Sibierski.

 

If the whole team were playing well apart from Martins then I'd be worried about him, but as the whole team looks awful, is creating nothing and seems as motivated as they were under Souness then I'll reserve judgement on his Newcastle career.

 

The same as most have with Duff.

 

I don't disagree about this (and I know what you were talking about, but I don't think that was what LM was talking about).

 

But I am still not sure about Martins being ever able to adapt to English football and that is why I don't think his past with Inter (where he was second/third choice despite all his nice records) is very significant. From those games I have seen him in a Newcastle shirt he was not only struggling with being out of form and the match tactics, but generally with the pace of the game. He looks like he needs more time at the ball, but that is something you don't get in the EPL where you are getting closed down very quickly. He doesn't have the composure to make the right decisions. Interestingly that is something even Mancini said he still needs to learn.

 

Martins probably would be a brilliant super-sub (like he was for Inter), who you can throw at tiring defences or when you get more space in the opposition half. But for nearly 10m you want a decent first team player and I am worried about him ever becoming one.

 

Though, I have to admit I was very critical about Bellamy back then and called him a useless donkey. So, I am not infallible.

[Meenzer 15561]

Though, I have to admit I was very critical about Bellamy back then and called him a useless donkey.

RASSISTIC!

[Tom 14013]

Though, I have to admit I was very critical about Bellamy back then and called him a useless donkey.

RASSISTIC!

 

Heather mills plastic leg tbh

[adios 717]

Though, I have to admit I was very critical about Bellamy back then and called him a useless donkey.

RASSISTIC!

 

Heather mills plastic leg tbh

 

Fucking plastic supporters.

[Tom 14013]

Though, I have to admit I was very critical about Bellamy back then and called him a useless donkey.

RASSISTIC!

 

Heather mills plastic leg tbh

 

Fucking plastic supporters.

[gram 0]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

To be fair to Baggio I thought he was talking about their respective reputations they bought to the club rather than what they did when they arrived here. It's a fairish point.

 

But I'd love an answer from LM on the last point, but he seems to have gone very quiet.

Bellamy was playing alongside far better players, particularly Alan Shearer.

Many dunderheeds praise Bellamy for 'getting us to 4th blah blah blah' and forget the inflence of the fella next to him. However, the fella next to him provided far more in that equation for me. 70 goals for shearer in 3 seasons together suggests that they complemented each other well. It would be madness to discount Bellamys influence on that as well as to suggest that the 130 odd goals Shearer scored at Newcastle meant he hadnt done it before.

 

Personally I thnk the comparison is unfair. Martins clearly has talent but how we manage it is another matter.

He certainly came with a far better repuation. Bellamys performance for Coventry against Newcastle was appalling and many felt we had thrown money away. Certainly people were astonished at the price we paid for him.

Martins needs better players around him. He isnt a player to run the channels like Bellamy but his instinct appears to shoot at the earliest opportunity. Maybe he needs more time. I suspect that is the case.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

You're a clueless arse. A few people rated Bellamy before he signed for Newcastle. He was a bargain and it was obvious in his very first game, if you couldn't see that it is confirmation you are blind as well as having poor judgment.

 

A few goals doesn't make Martins a better footballer than Bellamy. Bellamy is a support striker, again if you can't appreciate this - or the difference between the roles - by now and cling onto a goals stattistic then it is simply more added proof that you are clueless.

 

BTW, I am not avoiding any questions unlike quite a lot of people on here and NO. And to be honest, I don't give a flying fuck who is better than Craig Bellamy, all I saw is a player who was brilliant for

Newcastle United and prolonged Alan Shearers career by at least 2 years.

 

I mean, I can ask you a question. Are you really so dumb as you seem ? [but to be fair you aren't the only one]

[LeazesMag 0]

The difference is that it needed two league games for Bellamy to prove he was the perfect player for Newcastle regardless of what had been previously. So yes, for Newcastle Bellamy was the far better player when he arrived.

 

As Renton has said, I was talking about their career before they joined Newcastle.

 

Having said that Bellamy did have the advantage of playing under a far superior manager who actually uses tactics, he also partnered one of the best strikers in the league at the time. Martins on the other hand has to play under a clueless manager with long ball tactics and has the pleasure of partnering either Shola or Sibierski.

 

If the whole team were playing well apart from Martins then I'd be worried about him, but as the whole team looks awful, is creating nothing and seems as motivated as they were under Souness then I'll reserve judgement on his Newcastle career.

 

The same as most have with Duff.

 

I don't disagree about this (and I know what you were talking about, but I don't think that was what LM was talking about).

 

But I am still not sure about Martins being ever able to adapt to English football and that is why I don't think his past with Inter (where he was second/third choice despite all his nice records) is very significant . From those games I have seen him in a Newcastle shirt he was not only struggling with being out of form and the match tactics, but generally with the pace of the game. He looks like he needs more time at the ball, but that is something you don't get in the EPL where you are getting closed down very quickly. He doesn't have the composure to make the right decisions. Interestingly that is something even Mancini said he still needs to learn.

 

 

and that....is just about how I feel about him as well. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it, only an honest appraisal instead of wearing rose tinted specs ©

[gram 0]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

You're a clueless arse. A few people rated Bellamy before he signed for Newcastle. He was a bargain and it was obvious in his very first game, if you couldn't see that it is confirmation you are blind as well as having poor judgment.

 

A few goals doesn't make Martins a better footballer than Bellamy. Bellamy is a support striker, again if you can't appreciate this - or the difference between the roles - by now and cling onto a goals stattistic then it is simply more added proof that you are clueless.

 

BTW, I am not avoiding any questions unlike quite a lot of people on here and NO. And to be honest, I don't give a flying fuck who is better than Craig Bellamy, all I saw is a player who was brilliant for

Newcastle United and prolonged Alan Shearers career by at least 2 years.

 

I mean, I can ask you a question. Are you really so dumb as you seem ? [but to be fair you aren't the only one]

Very very few had seen Bellamy never mind rate him Leazes. He was appalling all season at Coventry. He himself acknowledges that he had a poor time at Cov. He was injured prior to that at Norwich so how people had managed to rate him is beyond me. Norwichs live performances on telly were few and far between.

 

I thought his pace would be useful and a few Norwich fans I knew said he would do well but beyond that few people had a clue about him.

 

Shearer benefited, but it is daft to imply that the partnership was anything other than complimentary. Certainly 70 goals didnt score themselves. If it was that easy then the 27 year old Craig Bellamy would have more than Alan Shearer scored in those 3 seasons.

 

Martins needs time and decent players around him. It is unfortunate that some hanker after an arsehole who couldnt give a toss about anyone but himself. That statement is so bound up in empirical evidence that it doesnt need qualifying. Nor reiterating no matter how fanciful the defence of him can be.

 

Give Martins a chance and wait til we have someone worthy of the shirt to play alongside him. He has shown decent glimpes and scored good goals. However, he is ploughing a lonely furrow when we boot 50 yard balls over his head. We wont see anywhere near his potential in my view until we get shot of the current manager and/or replace half a dozen faces in the first team.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

You're a clueless arse. A few people rated Bellamy before he signed for Newcastle. He was a bargain and it was obvious in his very first game, if you couldn't see that it is confirmation you are blind as well as having poor judgment.

 

A few goals doesn't make Martins a better footballer than Bellamy. Bellamy is a support striker, again if you can't appreciate this - or the difference between the roles - by now and cling onto a goals stattistic then it is simply more added proof that you are clueless.

 

BTW, I am not avoiding any questions unlike quite a lot of people on here and NO. And to be honest, I don't give a flying fuck who is better than Craig Bellamy, all I saw is a player who was brilliant for

Newcastle United and prolonged Alan Shearers career by at least 2 years.

 

I mean, I can ask you a question. Are you really so dumb as you seem ? [but to be fair you aren't the only one]

Very very few had seen Bellamy never mind rate him Leazes. He was appalling all season at Coventry. He himself acknowledges that he had a poor time at Cov. He was injured prior to that at Norwich so how people had managed to rate him is beyond me. Norwichs live performances on telly were few and far between.

 

I thought his pace would be useful and a few Norwich fans I knew said he would do well but beyond that few people had a clue about him.

 

Shearer benefited, but it is daft to imply that the partnership was anything other than complimentary. Certainly 70 goals didnt score themselves. If it was that easy then the 27 year old Craig Bellamy would have more than Alan Shearer scored in those 3 seasons.

 

Martins needs time and decent players around him. It is unfortunate that some hanker after an arsehole who couldnt give a toss about anyone but himself. That statement is so bound up in empirical evidence that it doesnt need qualifying. Nor reiterating no matter how fanciful the defence of him can be.

 

Give Martins a chance and wait til we have someone worthy of the shirt to play alongside him. He has shown decent glimpes and scored good goals. However, he is ploughing a lonely furrow when we boot 50 yard balls over his head. We wont see anywhere near his potential in my view until we get shot of the current manager and/or replace half a dozen faces in the first team.

 

Well I thought he had good potential at Coventry, when he played through the middle near to Hartson it was obvious it was his best position rather than out wide where Strachan played him [good manager and better than Roeder because he's won the Scottish League ] and I was very pleased when we bought him, although I realise I have no proof of that, having said it on talk of the tyne and the old nufc.nu forum at the time.

 

Of course the partnership with Shearer was 2 way. But Bellamy and Robert DID catapult Newcastle from being a mid table team with no pace or creativity into a top 4 side.

 

Most players only care about themselves, people generally do. Bellamy however played over 50 games for Newcastle with a knee needing surgery, you won't find many players doing that.

 

Martins may just need a chance, but I - along with isegrim - share the concern over his wild finishing and slashing at chances. You either have it or you don't. Micky Quinn was a player who wasn't really good outside the box but inside he was deadly, accurate and came alive. You watch him...he only needed a split second and 99 times out of 100 he hit the target, no matter where or how the ball came to him, the keeper had to stop the ball or it would have been in. Thats an example of a limited player, but one who had the goalscoring knack. If Martins is going to be an out and out goalscorer, and not contribute much to team play, he needs to be accurate and take his opportunities to justify it. I obviously hope he does, as he has pace he would be hard to contain.

Edited October 18, 2006 by LeazesMag

[gram 0]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

You're a clueless arse. A few people rated Bellamy before he signed for Newcastle. He was a bargain and it was obvious in his very first game, if you couldn't see that it is confirmation you are blind as well as having poor judgment.

 

A few goals doesn't make Martins a better footballer than Bellamy. Bellamy is a support striker, again if you can't appreciate this - or the difference between the roles - by now and cling onto a goals stattistic then it is simply more added proof that you are clueless.

 

BTW, I am not avoiding any questions unlike quite a lot of people on here and NO. And to be honest, I don't give a flying fuck who is better than Craig Bellamy, all I saw is a player who was brilliant for

Newcastle United and prolonged Alan Shearers career by at least 2 years.

 

I mean, I can ask you a question. Are you really so dumb as you seem ? [but to be fair you aren't the only one]

Very very few had seen Bellamy never mind rate him Leazes. He was appalling all season at Coventry. He himself acknowledges that he had a poor time at Cov. He was injured prior to that at Norwich so how people had managed to rate him is beyond me. Norwichs live performances on telly were few and far between.

 

I thought his pace would be useful and a few Norwich fans I knew said he would do well but beyond that few people had a clue about him.

 

Shearer benefited, but it is daft to imply that the partnership was anything other than complimentary. Certainly 70 goals didnt score themselves. If it was that easy then the 27 year old Craig Bellamy would have more than Alan Shearer scored in those 3 seasons.

 

Martins needs time and decent players around him. It is unfortunate that some hanker after an arsehole who couldnt give a toss about anyone but himself. That statement is so bound up in empirical evidence that it doesnt need qualifying. Nor reiterating no matter how fanciful the defence of him can be.

 

Give Martins a chance and wait til we have someone worthy of the shirt to play alongside him. He has shown decent glimpes and scored good goals. However, he is ploughing a lonely furrow when we boot 50 yard balls over his head. We wont see anywhere near his potential in my view until we get shot of the current manager and/or replace half a dozen faces in the first team.

 

Well I thought he had good potential at Coventry, when he played through the middle near to Hartson it was obvious it was his best position rather than out wide where Strachan played him [good manager and better than Roeder because he's won the Scottish League ] and I was very pleased when we bought him, although I realise I have no proof of that, having said it on talk of the tyne and the old nufc.nu forum at the time.

 

Of course the partnership with Shearer was 2 way. But Bellamy and Robert DID catapult Newcastle from being a mid table team with no pace or creativity into a top 4 side.

 

Most players only care about themselves, people generally do. Bellamy however played over 50 games for Newcastle with a knee needing surgery, you won't find many players doing that.

 

Martins may just need a chance, but I - along with isegrim - share the concern over his wild finishing and slashing at chances. You either have it or you don't. Micky Quinn was a player who wasn't really good outside the box but inside he was deadly, accurate and came alive. You watch him...he only needed a split second and 99 times out of 100 he hit the target, no matter where or how the ball came to him, the keeper had to stop the ball or it would have been in. Thats an example of a limited player, but one who had the goalscoring knack. If Martins is going to be an out and out goalscorer, and not contribute much to team play, he needs to be accurate and take his opportunities to justify it. I obviously hope he does, as he has pace he would be hard to contain.

The purchase of Robert and Bellamy were right for the positions that needed filling at the time. They helped the rest of a very good midfield and attack push us to where we got. We also had a very effective Gary Speed and highly effective Dyer Solano conbination in Dec/Jan/Feb and more the second season. On top of that we had a bloke who could finish like no other Newcastle player (or any other club) recently had. They didnt catapult us, they were the last pieces of a jigsaw that was very effective.

Splitting hairs I know but it always suggests to me that they did more than the rest and they didnt. It was highly effective team play.

At present we are nowhere near buying for appropriate positions, have a bloke injured who could replace Alan Shearer but we will see, Martins is nowt but a youngun who needs time. He COULD be very good but we wont know til we sort out the rest of the shambles.

 

Even our back four in that first season of Hughes, Distin, Dabizas and O'Brien were light years ahead of our current set up.

 

Its hard to see one player from the current side who would oust one player from that side on current form.

Duff has the ability to but hasnt managed to as our system just isnt working for him either. Emre is a good player but limited when we need some physical presence. Parker is good but not as good as many rate him - certainly Gary Speed was better and offered more going forward. I would personally prefer to see him as a box to box player with somone commanding alongside him in the mould of Sissoko or Papa Diop.

Martins needs someone up front with him as I mentioned. The back four need binning altogether. Not one of them from Ramage, Taylor, Carr, Babayaro or Bramble is good enough for the shirt.

 

Its hard work at present but its been coming for a long long time. Mismanagement of players, wasting money on clueless managers aswell as players acting/playing like arseholes have all been evident since 2003-4. something has to change. Whether it is policy or personnel is open to debate but watching that shower of shite in a stadium well short of capacity should send alarm bells ringing.

[Missed Sticks 0]

The thing that most worries me is that we've spent most of our money on a player whom we seem to have no idea how to exploit. Robson clearly had a plan with regards to the combined talents of Robert, Bellamy and Shearer. Currently there is no evident plan involving Duff, Martins and Shola. Until i've seen something that resembles one i can't judge Martins properly. It's not looking promising though, which is a shame.

[Renton 21643]

 

 

he's a far better player than Bellamy was when he first arrived

 

 

 

 

 

I have to agree with Leazes here, that is plainly not true.

 

 

When Bellamy first arrived he was a nothing player who'd just flopped at Coventry, he'd only managed 4 caps for Wales and most thought we paid over the odds at the time.

 

Martins on the other hand has managed to score 1 in 3 at a far bigger club than we're ever likely to be, got an average of 1 in 2 in the CL, 7 in 6 in the UEFA cup and 11 in 13 for his country.

 

For someone who likes to spout about facts so much LM I hope you enjoy these, do you think the Bellamy we signed then is better than Shevchenko now? after all he hasn't settled in yet and with your poor knowledge of football outside of this country I doubt you've ever heard of him.

 

BTW are you still backing Roeder? I've asked you several times over on N-O yet you seem to be avoiding the question.

 

You're a clueless arse. A few people rated Bellamy before he signed for Newcastle. He was a bargain and it was obvious in his very first game, if you couldn't see that it is confirmation you are blind as well as having poor judgment.

 

A few goals doesn't make Martins a better footballer than Bellamy. Bellamy is a support striker, again if you can't appreciate this - or the difference between the roles - by now and cling onto a goals stattistic then it is simply more added proof that you are clueless.

 

BTW, I am not avoiding any questions unlike quite a lot of people on here and NO. And to be honest, I don't give a flying fuck who is better than Craig Bellamy, all I saw is a player who was brilliant for

Newcastle United and prolonged Alan Shearers career by at least 2 years.

 

I mean, I can ask you a question. Are you really so dumb as you seem ? [but to be fair you aren't the only one]

Very very few had seen Bellamy never mind rate him Leazes. He was appalling all season at Coventry. He himself acknowledges that he had a poor time at Cov. He was injured prior to that at Norwich so how people had managed to rate him is beyond me. Norwichs live performances on telly were few and far between.

 

I thought his pace would be useful and a few Norwich fans I knew said he would do well but beyond that few people had a clue about him.

 

Shearer benefited, but it is daft to imply that the partnership was anything other than complimentary. Certainly 70 goals didnt score themselves. If it was that easy then the 27 year old Craig Bellamy would have more than Alan Shearer scored in those 3 seasons.

 

Martins needs time and decent players around him. It is unfortunate that some hanker after an arsehole who couldnt give a toss about anyone but himself. That statement is so bound up in empirical evidence that it doesnt need qualifying. Nor reiterating no matter how fanciful the defence of him can be.

 

Give Martins a chance and wait til we have someone worthy of the shirt to play alongside him. He has shown decent glimpes and scored good goals. However, he is ploughing a lonely furrow when we boot 50 yard balls over his head. We wont see anywhere near his potential in my view until we get shot of the current manager and/or replace half a dozen faces in the first team.

 

Well I thought he had good potential at Coventry, when he played through the middle near to Hartson it was obvious it was his best position rather than out wide where Strachan played him [good manager and better than Roeder because he's won the Scottish League ] and I was very pleased when we bought him, although I realise I have no proof of that, having said it on talk of the tyne and the old nufc.nu forum at the time.

 

Of course the partnership with Shearer was 2 way. But Bellamy and Robert DID catapult Newcastle from being a mid table team with no pace or creativity into a top 4 side.

 

Most players only care about themselves, people generally do. Bellamy however played over 50 games for Newcastle with a knee needing surgery, you won't find many players doing that.

 

Martins may just need a chance, but I - along with isegrim - share the concern over his wild finishing and slashing at chances. You either have it or you don't. Micky Quinn was a player who wasn't really good outside the box but inside he was deadly, accurate and came alive. You watch him...he only needed a split second and 99 times out of 100 he hit the target, no matter where or how the ball came to him, the keeper had to stop the ball or it would have been in. Thats an example of a limited player, but one who had the goalscoring knack. If Martins is going to be an out and out goalscorer, and not contribute much to team play, he needs to be accurate and take his opportunities to justify it. I obviously hope he does, as he has pace he would be hard to contain.

The purchase of Robert and Bellamy were right for the positions that needed filling at the time. They helped the rest of a very good midfield and attack push us to where we got. We also had a very effective Gary Speed and highly effective Dyer Solano conbination in Dec/Jan/Feb and more the second season. On top of that we had a bloke who could finish like no other Newcastle player (or any other club) recently had. They didnt catapult us, they were the last pieces of a jigsaw that was very effective.

Splitting hairs I know but it always suggests to me that they did more than the rest and they didnt. It was highly effective team play.

At present we are nowhere near buying for appropriate positions, have a bloke injured who could replace Alan Shearer but we will see, Martins is nowt but a youngun who needs time. He COULD be very good but we wont know til we sort out the rest of the shambles.

 

Even our back four in that first season of Hughes, Distin, Dabizas and O'Brien were light years ahead of our current set up.

 

Its hard to see one player from the current side who would oust one player from that side on current form.

Duff has the ability to but hasnt managed to as our system just isnt working for him either. Emre is a good player but limited when we need some physical presence. Parker is good but not as good as many rate him - certainly Gary Speed was better and offered more going forward. I would personally prefer to see him as a box to box player with somone commanding alongside him in the mould of Sissoko or Papa Diop.

Martins needs someone up front with him as I mentioned. The back four need binning altogether. Not one of them from Ramage, Taylor, Carr, Babayaro or Bramble is good enough for the shirt.

 

Its hard work at present but its been coming for a long long time. Mismanagement of players, wasting money on clueless managers aswell as players acting/playing like arseholes have all been evident since 2003-4. something has to change. Whether it is policy or personnel is open to debate but watching that shower of shite in a stadium well short of capacity should send alarm bells ringing.

 

Good post gram.

[Guest alex]

Funny how Taylor has been completely written off by many. I never rated him as highly as some at first but now I think people are overreacting and I would certainly hang on to him as he is still very young, raw and inexperienced. As for Martins I think Gram has hit the nail on the head. The issue isn't so much about how good he is, rather is the team capable of playing to his strengths and is he what the team really needed? I fear that the answer to both of those questions is a resounding 'no'.

[wykikitoon 20234]

After Sunday I would say that we arent capable of delivering the right service to Martins at all.

 

BUT

 

We arent capable of delivering a fucking pizza at the moment Emre, Parker and Duff seem the only ones who can pass a ball!

[geordieshandy 0]

After Sunday I would say that we arent capable of delivering the right service to Martins at all.

 

BUT

 

We arent capable of delivering a fucking pizza at the moment Emre, Parker and Duff seem the only ones who can pass a ball!

 

And yet half the time even they can't manage it.

[menace13 0]

After Sunday I would say that we arent capable of delivering the right service to Martins at all.

 

BUT

 

We arent capable of delivering a fucking pizza at the moment Emre, Parker and Duff seem the only ones who can pass a ball!

 

And yet half the time even they can't manage it.

 

What deliver the pizza's or pass the ball