Renton 21052 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Breaking news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6046332.stm Also this in the news today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6045112.stm What an absolute shambles, surely now with the death of over half a million Iraqis and the head of the British army saying we should withdraw from Iraq, even the most ardent right-wingers must agree this war was a terrible mistake. The world, including the UK, is undoubtedly a more dangerous place now with Hussein gone and nothing to replace him. Of course, the death toll will be horrendous when we do withdraw but there is nothing that can stop that now imo. The worst thing is though, this scenario was easily predictable by anyone with an ounce of common sense or the tiniest bit of knowledge of the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 172 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Yep, should never have gone in, get the boys out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizza 105 Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 (edited) Aye, get them out. Should never have been there in the first place. Edited October 12, 2006 by Bizza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Leazes et al must feel so smug about getting this one right from the beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Yeh man time to bring em back. Its the Yanks problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Leaving now would create an even worse power vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Leaving now would create an even worse power vacuum. Oh, you lot can stay if you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 You should pull out of Iraq and join a coalition to attack the US, while they've got fuck all no-one to defend them. Get out Grandpa's rifle and put a pot on your head, Zathras, we're a-comin' fer ye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Thing is though Zath, being serious for a sec, while I tend to agree with you, at what point does one decide that it's a war that can't be won and that it's time to get out? To take the example of a conflict like Vietnam (which I know was a totally different scenario) it's clear the US stayed in much longer than they should. Really the invasion should never have happened in the first place and I take no pleasure in the fact I thought that before it even happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 You thought the iraqi militia was scary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Thing is though Zath, being serious for a sec, while I tend to agree with you, at what point does one decide that it's a war that can't be won and that it's time to get out? To take the example of a conflict like Vietnam (which I know was a totally different scenario) it's clear the US stayed in much longer than they should. Really the invasion should never have happened in the first place and I take no pleasure in the fact I thought that before it even happened. In Viet Nam, there was a direct force in North Viet Nam which was being combatted. When North Viet Nam basically pushed the US forced back, it was time to leave as the war was lost. It is difficult to abandon the cause like that, but the cause was lost at that point. I am still not convinced that the cause in Iraq is lost. While things are clearly not going well, I am still at this point convinced that a withdrawal would put the country into such a vacuum as to cause a worse problem overall. OTOH, the ridiculously cold-blooded way that the Iraqi parliament was set up in order to allow for 'legal' profit-taking from the country is abhorrent and shouldn't have been allowed either. I agree that the invasion shouldn't have happened, but I was always taught that if you make a mess, even if it's due to a simple miscalculation on your part you should do your best to clean it up. How to do that in this case I'm still not certain, but I am reasonably convinced that a complete pull out can only make the situation worse at this point. The Iraqi government and police force is not close to being ready to handle the security of the country for themselves. Frankly, I think that the only likely solution will involve a "Balkanization" of the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Yeah, it probably needs to be divided up in order to stop future civil war / genocide. The ethnic tension will unfortunately prevent people from living side by side for some time to come given the appalling acts of violence being committed. My problem with British Troops being in Iraq though is that (unlike Afghanistan) I think there was little or no legitimate reason for our helping the US since I thought we would only make things worse. Unfortunately we even seem to be doing that in Afghanistan too due to our resources being stretched so much. It's depressing tbh because I think it will lead to more hatred and violence in the world and (from a selfish point of view) in the UK too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 2 words: glass carpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 2 words: glass carpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 (edited) Every time I hear the term, I just think about how much fun the finished product sounds like. I'd like to think I'm a compassionate human being, but that's got to be worth a few million Iraqis. On a serious note, it's going to be very hard for this problem to be sorted until the key issue that Zathras raised is sorted. US corporations need to stop pulling money out of the country. How is a rape victim ever supposed to get her life back together when the rapist still basically has his dick in her? This problem isn't going away. Edited October 13, 2006 by ObaGol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 I'm afraid I've never heard the expression before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 What's a glass car park btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Lots of sand plus the intense heat of a nuclear blast or ten equals glass carpark. I heard a very sombre US citizen declare it whole-heartedly as the solution to the Middle East problem. Sorry, I thought it was more widely known; certainly made me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Aah, makes sense now. I hadn't heard the phrase but I've heard of the sand in the deserts in the USA where they did the atom bomb tests in the 50's being turned to glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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