Faith Schools

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3789]

Anybody on here believe they do good. A friend of mine does. We have endless dicussions on the fact. I personally believe they are devisive and segregation on religious grounds is contrary to what we are trying to do as a society. Of course just because I believe that doesn't mean I expect everyone to.

[Lazarus 0]

[Renton 21056]

Anybody on here believe they do good. A friend of mine does. We have endless dicussions on the fact. I personally believe they are devisive and segregation on religious grounds is contrary to what we are trying to do as a society. Of course just because I believe that doesn't mean I expect everyone to.

 

I'm with you and am fundamentally opposed to them, especially the ones peddling more fundamental faiths, like Emmanuel college in Gateshead. They teach lies, discourage free thought, have luddite attitudes and are anti-science, and are devisive. Of all the things the current government have done this supporting these ridiculous, outdated schools is the thing I object to most, even more than Iraq. I would advocate an entirely secular education for all children.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

They get better grades...but at what cost.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3789]

Anybody on here believe they do good. A friend of mine does. We have endless dicussions on the fact. I personally believe they are devisive and segregation on religious grounds is contrary to what we are trying to do as a society. Of course just because I believe that doesn't mean I expect everyone to.

 

I'm with you and am fundamentally opposed to them, especially the ones peddling more fundamental faiths, like Emmanuel college in Gateshead. They teach lies, discourage free thought, have luddite attitudes and are anti-science, and are devisive. Of all the things the current government have done this supporting these ridiculous, outdated schools is the thing I object to most, even more than Iraq. I would advocate an entirely secular education for all children.

 

I may be wrong but I believe one of the people responsible for the push is a member of Opus Dei. And Cherie blair's reaction to the death of the pope was very OTT.

[rikko 20]

I think the parents do have the right to choose if they want to send their kids to a faith school or not. However, these schools should all be privately funded, and meet all the core curriculum requirements, as they have no place in within the state run school system.

[Rob W 0]

Anybody on here believe they do good. A friend of mine does. We have endless dicussions on the fact. I personally believe they are devisive and segregation on religious grounds is contrary to what we are trying to do as a society. Of course just because I believe that doesn't mean I expect everyone to.

 

 

agree with you totally

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

Anybody on here believe they do good. A friend of mine does. We have endless dicussions on the fact. I personally believe they are devisive and segregation on religious grounds is contrary to what we are trying to do as a society. Of course just because I believe that doesn't mean I expect everyone to.

 

I'm with you and am fundamentally opposed to them, especially the ones peddling more fundamental faiths, like Emmanuel college in Gateshead. They teach lies, discourage free thought, have luddite attitudes and are anti-science, and are devisive. Of all the things the current government have done this supporting these ridiculous, outdated schools is the thing I object to most, even more than Iraq. I would advocate an entirely secular education for all children.

 

 

Faith schools appall and disgust me, there should be a complete and total divorce of church and state, no faith should have any input into running a school. I am steadfast in my support of Blair, but I really despise this

[Bizza 105]

Faith schools appall and disgust me, there should be a complete and total divorce of church and state, no faith should have any input into running a school. I am steadfast in my support of Blair, but I really despise this

 

Agree completely, religion shoud have no place in schools.

[Happy Face 29]

Some people believe that fossils were left by god to test our faith. These people would argue that certain branches of science should not be taught as fact in state schools, if they can tolerate your beliefs, what reason could you have for such intolerance of theirs and their right to have their kids educated accordingly?

 

Other than the widely documented scientific evidence to the contrary, the lack of any corroborating evidence for their point of view and the generally stupefying notion of god being an omnipotent version of Jeremy Beadle.

[TheInspiration 1]

As has already been said, it's the parents' decisions to send their child to that school, and if they think that's going to benefit them because they want them to grow up under the specific religion, then so be it.

 

In my local area there's Christian schools, which aren't much different to standard schools. They aren't run by any Christian organisations, just run on Christian principles. These are fine surely.

 

Also, despite what people may say about evolution being proven, people still may not agree with it, and that is taught in schools but that is deemed fine, whereas religion should have no place in schools?

[adios 717]

As has already been said, it's the parents' decisions to send their child to that school, and if they think that's going to benefit them because they want them to grow up under the specific religion, then so be it.

 

In my local area there's Christian schools, which aren't much different to standard schools. They aren't run by any Christian organisations, just run on Christian principles. These are fine surely.

 

Also, despite what people may say about evolution being proven, people still may not agree with it, and that is taught in schools but that is deemed fine, whereas religion should have no place in schools?

 

Where do you draw the line with parents' decisions? If a child is being physically abused, that is within the jurisdiction of the courts, I assume that is not up for debate. If indoctrinating a human being into a mind-set before it can possibly choose or even understand it, could there be an argument for mental abuse with long lasting effects? The God of your modern, inclusive religions would surely encourage people to wait until they are old enough to decide for themselves before rushing into a decision about worshipping him. Children can be taught good values, and then choose if they'd like to add a bit of hocus pocus when they're old enough to drink, or die for their countries. Would that be such a bad thing to have written into the constitution?

 

On your second point, Science is not flawless, it can sometimes even be closed-minded about things, but it is the best system of discovery that we have, constantly striving for answers, re-evaluating, evolving as new information becomes available. Religion has evolved in the same way as fairy stories do, but more perniciously, as often misused as a tool of politics and hate. Why are you equating two of the most different things imaginable with each other?

Edited October 3, 2006 by ObaGol

[Matt 0]

I went to a Catholic school and bar the assembly there's not a great deal of difference in what you actually do. At least where I was the curricula were the same as any other school (no creationism thanks- in fact it's now a specialst science school, whatever good that means).

 

Realistically these schools have survived not so much because of the faith element but because they have traditionally fared better than the average mainline comp, even those (like mine) which had no selection policies based on ability. It wasn't becuase God helped everyone out (though some might like to think so). The reality was the place (back then) was still pretty strict and had streamed classes from Day 1.

 

This 'edge' is being eroded and will continue to do so. Nearer home, the local Catholic high has such a bad rep that kids are leaving in droves from the Middle schools to go to Crammy High. I guess it depends where you are.

 

I guess you can't ban faith schools without banning private education too and there's not a massive amount wrong with the way things work now. IIRC the way it works is that capital maintenance is covered by the appropriate religious body or by charitable trust while the day to day expenses that would be incurred regardless of where the kids go to school comes through general taxation via the LEA.

[TheInspiration 1]

To be honest, I am against the idea of faith schools as such, though simply a church school for example I do support. I was only saying it's the parents' decision, so it should be left entirely up to them whether they want their child to go there, and it's their right to if they feel it would help. As a Christian I would want people to become Christian simply because I feel it is the true religion, though I would never attempt to convert people, so I dislike the way people are indoctrinated, in such a way. However if they are taught lightly about the specific religion from an early age, say at church, they can learn about the religion, then when they are old enough to think for themselves they may do so. That has been my way of going about things, and the fact I haven't had a strict Christian upbringing has no doubt been a good thing.

 

For the second point, I mentioned both science and religion, because of Bizza's comment that religion and school should be kept seperate. I was a bit unsure as to what it exactly meant. Did it mean people cannot even have their own religious unions, where people go at wish? Or did it simply mean there should be no indoctrination? But anyway, there could be religious followers in school, whose religion is kept seperate, but are taught views which they may disagree with. Not that evolution should not be taught in schools, but this could annoy them. For example, I used to go to a school which was very non-religious, and we had the odd assembly or lesson with the teacher saying "I know there could be some Christians here, but as far as I'm concerned this is what is true...", which was not nice to hear as there was no alternative theory spoken out.

Edited October 3, 2006 by TheInspiration

[NJS 4355]

A few thoughts:

 

The one thing I really admire the US for is the separation clause in the constitution. Religion has no place in schools.

 

I read recently the CofE want an exemption clause from equality legislation on homosexuality - basically they want the right to continue teaching illegal hatred and bigotry with tax payers money.

 

There ae two things I will never forgive Blair for - within 2 weeks of coming to power he invited the Bitch around for a cosy chat and secondly for his defence of Emmannuel teaching lies as science.

 

Anyone who is for faith schools should be made to watch the video from Ulster of adults screaming hatred at kids from a few years ago because the path to their school went too close to the "wrong" side.

 

Having said all that it is true that they tend to get better results - I'd have a good look at why - is it just the intake comes from more "decent" folk (which I accept some theists are) or is it as they would argue some kind of moral ethos?

 

Of course I'd ban them and to prevent the retreat to privately funded bigotry I'd do as I said in the 5 pieces of legislation thread and make private education itself illegal.

[NJS 4355]

To be honest, I am against the idea of faith schools as such, though simply a church school for example I do support. I was only saying it's the parents' decision, so it should be left entirely up to them whether they want their child to go there, and it's their right to if they feel it would help. As a Christian I would want people to become Christian simply because I feel it is the true religion, though I would never attempt to convert people, so I dislike the way people are indoctrinated, in such a way. However if they are taught lightly about the specific religion from an early age, say at church, they can learn about the religion, then when they are old enough to think for themselves they may do so. That has been my way of going about things, and the fact I haven't had a strict Christian upbringing has no doubt been a good thing.

 

Any teaching of young children is indoctrination by brainwashing - it should be banned completely. If your faith is so "right" then you should have the confidence that people as adults would choose it - as that is unlikely its never been allowed.

 

On the parental choice qustion I feel parents have too much choice because its a vote winner - why should someone who may use a schools services for as little as 5 years be able to influence the founding and establishment of facilities with a lifespan of 50 years in a field of "industry" they generally know nothing about?

 

As long as schools teach an agreed curriculum and maintain good standards (can of worms I know) then I think parents should have little or no influence.

[TheInspiration 1]

Okay, I did mean it's the parents' decision, provided the child likes the school and wants to go there. If they are sent there against their own will, but the parents think it's right, then that is wrong.

[adios 717]

Are you suggesting the children should decide whether or not to go to a faith school, until they're old enough to decide for themselves?

[NJS 4355]

Okay, I did mean it's the parents' decision, provided the child likes the school and wants to go there. If they are sent there against their own will, but the parents think it's right, then that is wrong.

 

Obviously parents have a right to make choices for their kids in the sense that by definition the kids aren't necessarily old enough to "know better" and these decisions are hopefully "co-operative" but overall I feel that if all schools were "decent" (yes, I know I'm an ideallist) then there wouldn't be a need for this choice/selection circus which leaves people disappointed.

 

There was something today about CofE schools allowing some "heathens" in which would at least make it honest as I know people who have attended church just to "codn" their way in - thats not right imo. As I said above the answer I think is right is to determine the "good" bits of these schools and drop what I think is the bad.

[NJS 4355]

Are you suggesting the children should decide whether or not to go to a faith school, until they're old enough to decide for themselves?

 

I did have a choice (which was pretty much my own) but it was a choice of two catholic schools. At the time it didn't bother me even though by that age I was starting to have doubts. Its only through becoming old, bitter and twisted (I blame NUFC) that I now feel so vehement on these issues.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

Anybody on here believe they do good. A friend of mine does. We have endless dicussions on the fact. I personally believe they are devisive and segregation on religious grounds is contrary to what we are trying to do as a society. Of course just because I believe that doesn't mean I expect everyone to.

 

I'm with you and am fundamentally opposed to them, especially the ones peddling more fundamental faiths, like Emmanuel college in Gateshead. They teach lies, discourage free thought, have luddite attitudes and are anti-science, and are devisive. Of all the things the current government have done this supporting these ridiculous, outdated schools is the thing I object to most, even more than Iraq. I would advocate an entirely secular education for all children.

 

I'm with you on that kind of Faith school. As Superintendent Chalmers said in the Simpsons: "Thank the Lord"? That sounded like a prayer. A prayer in a public school. God has no place within these walls, just like facts don't have a place within an organized religion.

 

The one thing i do like about alot of the Faith schools is they seem to understand discipline and controlling children better and actually run their schools well from that poitn of view, not getting out of hand like other schools. So if they kept the discipline and the ability to get good results and took out the religious doctrination and ludicrous ideas like creationsism then everyones a winner!

[LeazesMag 0]

Anybody on here believe they do good. A friend of mine does. We have endless dicussions on the fact. I personally believe they are devisive and segregation on religious grounds is contrary to what we are trying to do as a society. Of course just because I believe that doesn't mean I expect everyone to.

 

torch them all

Edited October 3, 2006 by LeazesMag

[Matt 0]

if all schools were "decent"

 

Not going to happen though, at least not as long as so many parents are allowed to bring up their children so shabbily- and it only takes a handful of wayward kids to drag a whole bunch down to their level.

 

While in principle I would agree that faith an the state should not mix and admire a lot of countries who have acheived this situation- I don't think it would be the right time now to do away with them. A lot of faith schools still operate in an 'old-fashioned' manner (though not much) and gives a good indication of how successful or otherwise recent changes to the education system are.

 

Mind you, as long as the government proceeds with their 'one for all' approach to education we're screwed in the long-term regardless.

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

if all schools were "decent"

 

Not going to happen though, at least not as long as so many parents are allowed to bring up their children so shabbily- and it only takes a handful of wayward kids to drag a whole bunch down to their level.

 

While in principle I would agree that faith an the state should not mix and admire a lot of countries who have acheived this situation- I don't think it would be the right time now to do away with them. A lot of faith schools still operate in an 'old-fashioned' manner (though not much) and gives a good indication of how successful or otherwise recent changes to the education system are.

 

Mind you, as long as the government proceeds with their 'one for all' approach to education we're screwed in the long-term regardless.

 

 

Education is a load better than it was ten years ago. It sickens me that they haven chosen to take this path now.

 

I would make every kid go there local school and ensure that every child in the country had exactly the same spent on them. The only thing that makes me more angry than faith schools is private education. Actually make that the same angry they are both equally and totally wrong

[adios 717]

Education is a load better than it was ten years ago. It sickens me that they haven chosen to take this path now.

 

I would make every kid go there local school and ensure that every child in the country had exactly the same spent on them. The only thing that makes me more angry than faith schools is private education. Actually make that the same angry they are both equally and totally wrong

 

What about home schooling?