Muslims

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

To be fair to aimaad, he is a muslim who has stated fairly clearly and unequivocally that violence has no place in his religion, he isnt trying to convert anybody and is stating his beliefs in a rational and polite manner.

 

More people with his attitude on every side would be an improvement all round

[Papa Lazaru 0]

To be fair to aimaad, he is a muslim who has stated fairly clearly and unequivocally that violence has no place in his religion, he isnt trying to convert anybody and is stating his beliefs in a rational and polite manner.

 

More people with his attitude on every side would be an improvement all round

 

Yeah, i'd rather have people thinking like him than some of the complete idiots attatched to all religions round the world who couldn't hold a sensible, coherent and reasonable debate about religion if their lives depended on it.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Papa Lazaru

[LeazesMag 0]

To be fair to aimaad, he is a muslim who has stated fairly clearly and unequivocally that violence has no place in his religion, he isnt trying to convert anybody and is stating his beliefs in a rational and polite manner.

 

More people with his attitude on every side would be an improvement all round

 

Yeah, i'd rather have people thinking like him than some of the complete idiots attatched to all religions round the world who couldn't hold a sensible, coherent and reasonable debate about religion if their lives depended on it.

 

And sadly for many, they don't give a flying fook about religion and their lives are threatened by it ....

[NJS 4355]

Show me "the truth" that God exists and I'll believe. I prefer reason.

 

once we die with them we'll see what happens

 

Ah Pascal's dilemma - If I'm right and death is death then you've lost nothing but if you're right then I've lost everything.

 

Only problem is your "specific" truth has to be the right one so your's is just as much a "gamble" as mine.

 

Mine is not a gamble, it is a firm belief and I have no problems dying with it.

 

You guys dont exactly live in a haven for islamic scholars do you? So im not surprised you havent met any.

 

Im not pulling out of this debate because you've shattered my belief misters, its because i am not disillusioned about my capabilites on the matter. I am 18 and i know my knowledge of religion and philosphy is not extensive enough for me to rage on about it in such a situatuon, yet. I suggest you go and sart this debate on an islamic board where you will expect to find serious answers.

 

I'd echo the comments about your damned niceness but theres not much further to say - I like arguing about concrete issues like evolution/creationism which is related to a degree but arguing from a rational view against an irrational endemic belief can't last that long.

 

All I can ultimately do is state my firm belief that if nobody was allowed to be taught any religion until adulthood the thing would be dead in a generation.

[Renton 21050]

To be fair to aimaad, he is a muslim who has stated fairly clearly and unequivocally that violence has no place in his religion, he isnt trying to convert anybody and is stating his beliefs in a rational and polite manner.

 

More people with his attitude on every side would be an improvement all round

 

It's true that aimaad seems like a nice lad and is always polite, and renounces viiolence in the name of Allah. Not sure about the converting thing though, I think it's more that he hasn't got the means rather than he hasn't got the will.

 

But consider this. This nice lad firmly believes that when we inevitably die, he will have an eternity in paradise while probably everyone else on this board will suffer an eternity of unremitting agony and torture, and that probably goes for all our friends and family as well. Not a very nice belief if you think about it, aimaad please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

 

He's also happy to make innacurate statements about his religion and won't defend his statements when this is pointed out, but that's another story. I can only hope that at some stage in his life he actually starts thinking for himself and starts questioning the shear absurdity of his beliefs, and if this offends, tough. It'd be for his own good.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3788]

My signature is there to show the utter hyprocrisy of religion.

 

If I was to say that protecting yourself and those around you from violence with violence was acceptable, but causing violence, being the initiator, was not acceptable, would that be hypocritical?

 

The quote in itself isn't hypocritical. It is the actions of extremists who say the follow the word of god directly when they do commit acts of aggression.

[Guest alex]

I don't think you can definitely say there isn't a God or an entity that created the universe although I tend to believe that isn't the case. One thing I am pretty certain of is that the major monotheistic religions' versions of how the world came about is wide of the mark (I don't buy into the other ones either but that's another story). All of them fly in the face of all scientific understanding (I realise science isn't infallible) and all of them have (at best) very dubious source material, i.e. their holy books. Mumbo-jumbo tbh.

[Renton 21050]

I don't think you can definitely say there isn't a God or an entity that created the universe although I tend to believe that isn't the case. One thing I am pretty certain of is that the major monotheistic religions' versions of how the world came about is wide of the mark (I don't buy into the other ones either but that's another story). All of them fly in the face of all scientific understanding (I realise science isn't infallible) and all of them have (at best) very dubious source material, i.e. their holy books. Mumbo-jumbo tbh.

 

It's also fairly obvious that monotheistic religions were necessary once in order for civilisation to survive, for instance as there was very little crime detection, the fear of God and Hell was necessary in order to keep some people on the straight and narrow. Similarily some of the lesser religious laws were common sense and advocated to protect individuals and society (e.g. don't eat pork as this was widely contaminated with disease in those days).

 

I can see how and why it developed. But in these days of enlightenment, it utterly amazes me it persists. In fact it's worse than that, there is evidence we are slipping backwards into a new age of non-enlightenment. I think we have to resist this where ever possible, the consequences could be catastrophic.

 

Incidentally, did anyone see the Doomsday code program at the weekend presented by Tony Robinson about the American evangelical movement? Truly frightening stuff, their beliefs are completely insane, and if anything they are the greatest threat to the world, as they admit they are actively trying to make Armagedon happen! It's become a self-fulfilling prophecy to them. The irony that revelations was probably written by a hippy on an acid trip is unfortunately lost on them.

[Guest alex]

Revelations was written by a mentally ill bloke stuck in a cave he thought was talking to him on Patmos. IMO

[Renton 21050]

Revelations was written by a mentally ill bloke stuck in a cave he thought was talking to him on Patmos. IMO

 

Agreed. And all the evidence suggests he was referring to his present time, not predicting the future. But it's unbelievable the impact he's had; expect 70 million Americans literally to vanish any day now.

[Guest alex]

Revelations was written by a mentally ill bloke stuck in a cave he thought was talking to him on Patmos. IMO

 

Agreed. And all the evidence suggests he was referring to his present time, not predicting the future. But it's unbelievable the impact he's had; expect 70 million Americans literally to vanish any day now.

I have similar concerns about the state of mind of Mohammed tbh. The Angel Gabriel spoke to you in a cave near Mecca did he? Whatever you say mate

[Renton 21050]

Actually, the rapture apparently isn't mentioned in Revelations but was a misinterpretation of a seminar given by a 19th century English Clergyman. Perhaps someone should tell Mr Bush.

[adios 717]

The quote in itself isn't hypocritical. It is the actions of extremists who say the follow the word of god directly when they do commit acts of aggression.

 

Agreed. Any "spirituality" that involves massacring innocent people is on somewhat shaky ground tbh.

Edited September 20, 2006 by ObaGol

[Guest alex]

Quite a lot of things from Christian tradition aren't mentioned in the Bible (not that I believe the Bible) and have been tacked on at a later date. The OT is bollocks too I reckon.

[adios 717]

I don't think you can definitely say there isn't a God or an entity that created the universe although I tend to believe that isn't the case. One thing I am pretty certain of is that the major monotheistic religions' versions of how the world came about is wide of the mark (I don't buy into the other ones either but that's another story). All of them fly in the face of all scientific understanding (I realise science isn't infallible) and all of them have (at best) very dubious source material, i.e. their holy books. Mumbo-jumbo tbh.

 

It's also fairly obvious that monotheistic religions were necessary once in order for civilisation to survive, for instance as there was very little crime detection, the fear of God and Hell was necessary in order to keep some people on the straight and narrow. Similarily some of the lesser religious laws were common sense and advocated to protect individuals and society (e.g. don't eat pork as this was widely contaminated with disease in those days).

 

I can see how and why it developed. But in these days of enlightenment, it utterly amazes me it persists. In fact it's worse than that, there is evidence we are slipping backwards into a new age of non-enlightenment. I think we have to resist this where ever possible, the consequences could be catastrophic.

 

Incidentally, did anyone see the Doomsday code program at the weekend presented by Tony Robinson about the American evangelical movement? Truly frightening stuff, their beliefs are completely insane, and if anything they are the greatest threat to the world, as they admit they are actively trying to make Armagedon happen! It's become a self-fulfilling prophecy to them. The irony that revelations was probably written by a hippy on an acid trip is unfortunately lost on them.

 

As things stand at the moment I would say religion is still necessary to our survival, Catholicism is probably the best of a bad lot, largely for the reasons given by Papa Gas in the speech that started this thread.

[Guest alex]

Given the increasing population is arguably the biggest problem facing humanity in the next century I'd contend that view.

[adios 717]

Given the increasing population is arguably the biggest problem facing humanity in the next century I'd contend that view.

 

So it evolves, best of a bad lot is far from ideal.

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

 

As things stand at the moment I would say religion is still necessary to our survival, Catholicism is probably the best of a bad lot, largely for the reasons given by Papa Gas in the speech that started this thread.

 

Could you expand on this bizzarre claim

[adios 717]

No.

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

thought not

[Guest alex]

Given the increasing population is arguably the biggest problem facing humanity in the next century I'd contend that view.

 

So it evolves, best of a bad lot is far from ideal.

Don't see it as being any better than other types of Christianity really. It doesn't look likes it moving much on contraception, abortion, ect. to me either. Why do think we need it to survive btw? Do you think we need the moral code it provides?

[Rob W 0]

Revelations was written by a mentally ill bloke stuck in a cave he thought was talking to him on Patmos. IMO

 

 

only bit in the whole book that's worth a read IMHO

 

He'd have been a star as a Hollywood script writer ol' John the Revelator

[Guest alex]

Revelations was written by a mentally ill bloke stuck in a cave he thought was talking to him on Patmos. IMO

 

 

only bit in the whole book that's worth a read IMHO

 

He'd have been a star as a Hollywood script writer ol' John the Revelator

Cracking good yarn from start to finish man. They don't make them like that anymore

Edited September 20, 2006 by alex

[Renton 21050]

Well, if I had to stick with one denomination of Christianity I'd go CoE. It's relatively progressive, and it amuses me that several of its influential members patently don't believe in God.

 

The Catholic church is on the wane and will all but disappear from Western Europe in decades imo. I don't think we need it and good riddance tbh, as long as it isn't being replaced by other more extreme creeds, which unfortunately looks like it may be happening.

[Guest alex]

I quite admire the little Evangelical places you see that are just glorified sheds, like the one near Barclays at Four Lane Ends; in that they don't seem to need all the extra guff a lot of religions do to worship. That said, beautiful architecture is one of the only things I like about religion.