Muslims

[Guest alex]

Having said that, didn't Chris Eubank recently convert to Islam?

[Gemmill 44107]

Chrith ith nailth.

[Renton 21050]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Catholic dogma states that the Pope is infallible - he cannot make mistakes as he is "God's spokesman" on earth therefore an apology is in a way heretical.

 

There's a get-out clause:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5355758.stm

 

Btw, I declare myself infallible on this board now, just to let you know.

[Guest alex]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Catholic dogma states that the Pope is infallible - he cannot make mistakes as he is "God's spokesman" on earth therefore an apology is in a way heretical.

 

There's a get-out clause:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5355758.stm

 

Btw, I declare myself infallible on this board now, just to let you know.

'Touched by the hand of God' in Sunday School no doubt

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3788]

Malcolm X was a weak-minded idiot then? Disagree there.

 

Then we do. I believe him to be weak minded in his acceptance of Islam. Particularly in that he was convincd by an Arabic religion that white people invented Slavery.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Having said that, didn't Chris Eubank recently convert to Islam?

 

Jesus wepth!

[Guest alex]

Malcolm X was a weak-minded idiot then? Disagree there.

 

Then we do. I believe him to be weak minded in his acceptance of Islam. Particularly in that he was convincd by an Arabic religion that white people invented Slavery.

Ok, that's taking one little thing out of context to prove your point imo. Much like the quote from the Koran in your signature (and other isolated quotes from religious texts people use to put forward one particular view on a religion). In any case I'm sure there are lots of people who have converted to one religion or another who are not weak minded, even if I don't agree with their beliefs.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3788]

Malcolm X was a weak-minded idiot then? Disagree there.

 

Then we do. I believe him to be weak minded in his acceptance of Islam. Particularly in that he was convincd by an Arabic religion that white people invented Slavery.

Ok, that's taking one little thing out of context to prove your point imo. Much like the quote from the Koran in your signature (and other isolated quotes from religious texts people use to put forward one particular view on a religion). In any case I'm sure there are lots of people who have converted to one religion or another who are not weak minded, even if I don't agree with their beliefs.

 

Like I said we will disagree. To be convinced beyond all the evidence to follow any religion is bad enough. To follow one which has a history of misogyny and intollerance is beyond imagining. My signature is there to show the utter hyprocrisy of religion.

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

Malcolm X

 

No Sell Out

 

best single by a fundamentalist ever. Beats the fuck out of christian rock

[Renton 21050]

I'm sure weak-minded is the wrong term, but I do find it especially odd that an adult would suddenly start believing one creed.

 

I was reading some of the stuff on the links that NJS posted yesterday, and having thought about it in the context of those sites, it is difficult to imagine anyone inventing a bigger pile of crap than christianity. It makes absolutely no sense to me on any level whatsoever. Yet people take it on Faith, and this is the crux of the problem imo, giving up their critical faculties in order to blindly follow some insane and unprovable dogma, and opening yourself up to all sorts of manipulation by unscrupulous people in the process.....

[Guest alex]

I'm sure weak-minded is the wrong term, but I do find it especially odd that an adult would suddenly start believing one creed.

 

I was reading some of the stuff on the links that NJS posted yesterday, and having thought about it in the context of those sites, it is difficult to imagine anyone inventing a bigger pile of crap than christianity. It makes absolutely no sense to me on any level whatsoever. Yet people take it on Faith, and this is the crux of the problem imo, giving up their critical faculties in order to blindly follow some insane and unprovable dogma, and opening yourself up to all sorts of manipulation by unscrupulous people in the process.....

We had a pretty good headmaster at first school, one who you could actually ask stuff in RE (unlike some of the Christian nutters I got for that subject later). Anyway, in my childish naivety I asked him how come we (as Christians - as I suppose I was then) knew we were right and others of other religions weren't. He was honest enough to admit he didn't have an answer. Since then various parts of Christianity (such as Jeus being crucified for our sins etc.) have made less and less sense to me the more I've thought about them.

[Guest alex]

Malcolm X was a weak-minded idiot then? Disagree there.

 

Then we do. I believe him to be weak minded in his acceptance of Islam. Particularly in that he was convincd by an Arabic religion that white people invented Slavery.

Ok, that's taking one little thing out of context to prove your point imo. Much like the quote from the Koran in your signature (and other isolated quotes from religious texts people use to put forward one particular view on a religion). In any case I'm sure there are lots of people who have converted to one religion or another who are not weak minded, even if I don't agree with their beliefs.

 

Like I said we will disagree. To be convinced beyond all the evidence to follow any religion is bad enough. To follow one which has a history of misogyny and intollerance is beyond imagining. My signature is there to show the utter hyprocrisy of religion.

I think we've got our wires crossed, my main point was I disagree with your generalisation although it's probably often true. I hate generalisations in general

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3788]

Malcolm X was a weak-minded idiot then? Disagree there.

 

Then we do. I believe him to be weak minded in his acceptance of Islam. Particularly in that he was convincd by an Arabic religion that white people invented Slavery.

Ok, that's taking one little thing out of context to prove your point imo. Much like the quote from the Koran in your signature (and other isolated quotes from religious texts people use to put forward one particular view on a religion). In any case I'm sure there are lots of people who have converted to one religion or another who are not weak minded, even if I don't agree with their beliefs.

 

Like I said we will disagree. To be convinced beyond all the evidence to follow any religion is bad enough. To follow one which has a history of misogyny and intollerance is beyond imagining. My signature is there to show the utter hyprocrisy of religion.

I think we've got our wires crossed, my main point was I disagree with your generalisation although it's probably often true. I hate generalisations in general

 

 

Cool Generalisations are all false. Scientific fact. I

[adios 717]

My signature is there to show the utter hyprocrisy of religion.

 

If I was to say that protecting yourself and those around you from violence with violence was acceptable, but causing violence, being the initiator, was not acceptable, would that be hypocritical?

[Gemmill 44107]

My signature is there to show the utter hyprocrisy of religion.

 

If I was to say that protecting yourself and those around you from violence with violence was acceptable, but causing violence, being the initiator, was not acceptable, would that be hypocritical?

 

Blatantly in the IRA tbh.

[adios 717]

Blatantly in the IRA tbh.

 

I once had drinks in Paris with and English man who thought we were all in it, or at the very least (he conceded) hiding weapons for them!

 

I wan't necessarily supporting what I wrote btw, just trying to show why I thought the statement was not a good example of hypocricy.

[Guest alex]

Blatantly in the IRA tbh.

 

I once had drinks in Paris with and English man who thought we were all in it, or at the very least (he conceded) hiding weapons for them!

 

I wan't necessarily supporting what I wrote btw, just trying to show why I thought the statement was not a good example of hypocricy.

Class when Ali G (talking to the Mayor of Belfast iirc) thought Wogan had been in the IRA purely on the basis he was Irish

[adios 717]

Class when Ali G (talking to the Mayor of Belfast iirc) thought Wogan had been in the IRA purely on the basis he was Irish

 

Well, he is a Republican...

[NJS 4355]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Catholic dogma states that the Pope is infallible - he cannot make mistakes as he is "God's spokesman" on earth therefore an apology is in a way heretical.

 

There's a get-out clause:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5355758.stm

 

Btw, I declare myself infallible on this board now, just to let you know.

 

I read that today - it mentions the one thing that should absolutely scream at everybody on the planet that catholicism is ridiculous - the fact that a pope "pondered" on the assumption of Mary and decided it was true, despite no record of it anywhere, and it therefore being accepted as dogmatic fact.

 

Some good points today - on the Malcolm X thing I think it fits what I think about things like support for the royal family as well as religion - otherwise intelligent or strong charactered people have a blind spot on something irrational which defies logic - I suppose to be sef-critical "faith" in Newcastle United could be said to fit that - whats more likely - eternal life or us winning a trophy ever again?

[aimaad22 4085]

Would just like to say that the verse from the Quran which explains God has blinded the people who refuse to look into the truth leaps to my mind after reading this thread. The funny thing is that after reading the posts here my faith has been doubly strenghtened, because your reaction is exactly what the Quran said a 1500 years back it would be. This has almost been like a laboratory experiment. Im astonished to be honest.

 

Of course you dont believe in any of that so you think im talking rubbish. So I think convincing you people is beyond me now, its a job for a proper scholar, not me. We have our own beliefs, once we die with them we'll see what happens. Until then enjoy life and be happy

[NJS 4355]

Show me "the truth" that God exists and I'll believe. I prefer reason.

 

once we die with them we'll see what happens

 

Ah Pascal's dilemma - If I'm right and death is death then you've lost nothing but if you're right then I've lost everything.

 

Only problem is your "specific" truth has to be the right one so your's is just as much a "gamble" as mine.

[Renton 21050]

So I think convincing you people is beyond me now, its a job for a proper scholar, not me.

 

 

I have had discussions with many religious people of many persuasions and have yet to meet a single one that can put up any rational argument for the belief in their God. Hence my complete lack of belief.

 

But before you do the expected and spit your dummy out, why not try and explain what those verses in the Koran that NJS highlighted are about, or are you going to be selective about what you choose to believe? After all, you said they didn't exist.

[Renton 21050]

Show me "the truth" that God exists and I'll believe. I prefer reason.

 

once we die with them we'll see what happens

 

Ah Pascal's dilemma - If I'm right and death is death then you've lost nothing but if you're right then I've lost everything.

 

Only problem is your "specific" truth has to be the right one so your's is just as much a "gamble" as mine.

 

Any God that can deliberately hide all evidence of his existence, only to torture you for eternity for doubting him (even if you are a "good" person), or even picking the wrong version, is probably not someone I'd want to be with anyway.

[walkinthedog 0]

Would just like to say that the verse from the Quran which explains God has blinded the people who refuse to look into the truth leaps to my mind after reading this thread. The funny thing is that after reading the posts here my faith has been doubly strenghtened, because your reaction is exactly what the Quran said a 1500 years back it would be. This has almost been like a laboratory experiment. Im astonished to be honest.

 

Of course you dont believe in any of that so you think im talking rubbish. So I think convincing you people is beyond me now, its a job for a proper scholar, not me. We have our own beliefs, once we die with them we'll see what happens. Until then enjoy life and be happy

 

Brain-washed and you know you are!

 

Give it up for a decade, if you miss it go back to it. Just try and think for yourself.

 

In evolutionary terms i think religion is adolescent fantasy.

 

Why the hell would Allah want you to spend so much time worshipping him? I just don't get that, to me it seems a way of enforcing the brainwashing in perpetuity.

 

Anyway it's not for me to talk you out of it, that's a job for Albert Einstein or Aldous Huxley or Abraham Lincoln or one of those other morons.

 

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."

 

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."

 

"All religions have been made by men."

 

-Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor

[aimaad22 4085]

Show me "the truth" that God exists and I'll believe. I prefer reason.

 

once we die with them we'll see what happens

 

Ah Pascal's dilemma - If I'm right and death is death then you've lost nothing but if you're right then I've lost everything.

 

Only problem is your "specific" truth has to be the right one so your's is just as much a "gamble" as mine.

 

Mine is not a gamble, it is a firm belief and I have no problems dying with it.

 

You guys dont exactly live in a haven for islamic scholars do you? So im not surprised you havent met any.

 

Im not pulling out of this debate because you've shattered my belief misters, its because i am not disillusioned about my capabilites on the matter. I am 18 and i know my knowledge of religion and philosphy is not extensive enough for me to rage on about it in such a situatuon, yet. I suggest you go and sart this debate on an islamic board where you will expect to find serious answers.