Muslims

[adios 717]

Islam, you mean?

 

eh?

[Renton 21050]

I seriously doubt he did this intentionally, the original talk was an acadewmic one at a University, wasn't it? What does the pope have to gain from inflaming religious hatred? And what's more, why should he mind his words? Why should we always have to appease the muslims, bend over backwards not to offend them, and let's be honest, everything offends them.

 

Spongebob believes all religions are equally bad, as witnessed by his jibe at the pope there. Well, I don't agree with this, and I want the right to be able to say this. Something these nutters want to take away from me.

 

What does the pope have to gain from making an "innocent" comment which gets blown out of all proportion by his greatest rivals; making the greatest threat to his religion look like a bunch of sandal-wearing loonies, while Catholicism becomes increasingly accepted as the rational and futuristic option (at a time when their anachronism is at an all-time high)?

 

I can't think...

 

I don't see the the religions as being in competition with each other ther though; maybe he does and if so you could be right.

[GeordieMessiah 2]

What does the pope have to gain from making an "innocent" comment which gets blown out of all proportion by his greatest rivals; making the greatest threat to his religion look like a bunch of sandal-wearing loonies, while Catholicism becomes increasingly accepted as the rational and futuristic option (at a time when their anachronism is at an all-time high)?

 

I can't think...

 

Increased market share?

[Guest alex]

The pope would have to be stupid not to see that this would have offended people. Doubt he is tbh. I'm not sticking up for those who have been offended and have protested btw, they can fuck off too. I can't believe people are tarring all Muslims with the same brush though. Actually, I can.

 

I'm not tarring all muslims with the same brush though. Moderate muslims who are happy to live in and contribute to our secular society are welcome in my book. BUT I think there is now a sizable minority who don't fit this description, and they are the ones mainly to blame for the increasing hostility towards the muslim population.

 

Regarding the pope, he should say what he thinks without having to worry about how certain sections of Islam are going to react. Like I say, it's incredibly ironic that the protesters proved him right.

More aimed at others tbh, in this thread though. I largely agree with what you say above too but the Pope was irresponsible (in my view) in what he said. He should be able top say what he wants in an ideal world but he knows he can't and he probably knew exactly what he was getting himself into here.

[adios 717]

I don't see the the religions as being in competition with each other ther though; maybe he does and if so you could be right.

 

That paper makes it pretty clear, in my opinion. He seems to be postioning them as Catholicism: "The choice for a new generation", the first job of the Pope must surely be to secure the future of his religion? And is competition with other religions not intrinsic in that goal?

[luckyluke 2]

Islam, you mean?

 

eh?

 

I don't think 'Muslimism' is word. The religion Muslims practice is Islam.

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

The Pope has got exactly what he wanted.

 

He knew that there would be some hot headed outrage, he knew what the media coverage would be like, he knew that people would end up slagging of the muslims.

 

I am not saying that these effigy burning idiots are right, but lets not be naive about this, benny the jew gasser knew exactly what he was doing

I'm inclined to agree, the fucking cunt.

 

I seriously doubt he did this intentionally, the original talk was an acadewmic one at a University, wasn't it? What does the pope have to gain from inflaming religious hatred? And what's more, why should he mind his words? Why should we always have to appease the muslims, bend over backwards not to offend them, and let's be honest, everything offends them.

 

Spongebob believes all religions are equally bad, as witnessed by his jibe at the pope there. Well, I don't agree with this, and I want the right to be able to say this. Something these nutters want to take away from me.

 

 

Its obvious what the pope has to gain, he gets people like you on his side. And by people like you I am not trying to be offensive, I mean people who consider themselves rational moderate and tolerant. He is the head of the Catholic Church, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. He has to defend his position

[adios 717]

Islam, you mean?

 

eh?

 

I don't think 'Muslimism' is word. The religion Muslims practice is Islam.

 

I don't agree, though I knew what you were getting at, my response was more a question of what value your comment has. Did anyone misunderstand me?

[luckyluke 2]

Not a lot. It just amuses me when people make up words that sound like they should exist but don't. I do it myself quite often, I wasn't having a go.

[Guest alex]

luckyluke not taking a thread seriously enough. Shame on him

[Renton 21050]

The Pope has got exactly what he wanted.

 

He knew that there would be some hot headed outrage, he knew what the media coverage would be like, he knew that people would end up slagging of the muslims.

 

I am not saying that these effigy burning idiots are right, but lets not be naive about this, benny the jew gasser knew exactly what he was doing

I'm inclined to agree, the fucking cunt.

 

I seriously doubt he did this intentionally, the original talk was an acadewmic one at a University, wasn't it? What does the pope have to gain from inflaming religious hatred? And what's more, why should he mind his words? Why should we always have to appease the muslims, bend over backwards not to offend them, and let's be honest, everything offends them.

 

Spongebob believes all religions are equally bad, as witnessed by his jibe at the pope there. Well, I don't agree with this, and I want the right to be able to say this. Something these nutters want to take away from me.

 

 

Its obvious what the pope has to gain, he gets people like you on his side. And by people like you I am not trying to be offensive, I mean people who consider themselves rational moderate and tolerant. He is the head of the Catholic Church, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. He has to defend his position

 

Well I'm not on his side. I was brought up as a catholic and brainwashed until the age of 16 until I could think for myself and realised that religion was a pile of bollocks.

 

What i will defend is the right for people to hold and express their beliefs, whatever they may be. If the pope has cunningly manipulated me, then fair play to him. Although I would add that he was no where near as clever as those Danish cartoonists.

[GeordieMessiah 2]

The pope would have to be stupid not to see that this would have offended people. Doubt he is tbh. I'm not sticking up for those who have been offended and have protested btw, they can fuck off too. I can't believe people are tarring all Muslims with the same brush though. Actually, I can.

 

I'm not tarring all muslims with the same brush though. Moderate muslims who are happy to live in and contribute to our secular society are welcome in my book. BUT I think there is now a sizable minority who don't fit this description, and they are the ones mainly to blame for the increasing hostility towards the muslim population.

 

Regarding the pope, he should say what he thinks without having to worry about how certain sections of Islam are going to react. Like I say, it's incredibly ironic that the protesters proved him right.

More aimed at others tbh, in this thread though. I largely agree with what you say above too but the Pope was irresponsible (in my view) in what he said. He should be able top say what he wants in an ideal world but he knows he can't and he probably knew exactly what he was getting himself into here.

 

Yup, Alex, I noticed. I'm just venting my spleen, because I really am beginning to feel oppressed by fundamentalist Islam and the way it's screwing up the world. If in the process of venting that spleen, I appear to have tarred all muslims with the same brush, I apologise. OK, maybe I'm too willing to succumb to the inherent Islamophobic attitudes that pervade the western media - but if you can't see what a threat Islam presents to the western way of life, then I'd be interested to learn why not...

 

As regards the Pope...well I see no reason why just because it offends their nutty belief system, the Pope shouldn't allude to the history of violence that has attended the development of Islam through the ages...I don't think this is as black-white an issue as some would have it.

[adios 717]

Not a lot. It just amuses me when people make up words that sound like they should exist but don't. I do it myself quite often, I wasn't having a go.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to sound so uppity about it, that's an area that really interests me and I could side-track this thread into another dimension if I responded properly.

 

I'm not the first to use the word btw.

Edited September 18, 2006 by ObaGol

[Renton 21050]

I don't see the the religions as being in competition with each other ther though; maybe he does and if so you could be right.

 

That paper makes it pretty clear, in my opinion. He seems to be postioning them as Catholicism: "The choice for a new generation", the first job of the Pope must surely be to secure the future of his religion? And is competition with other religions not intrinsic in that goal?

 

I'll be honest and say I haven't read it (apart from the highlighted excerpts from the BBC). I haven't got the inclination to read theological discussions tbh.

[Guest alex]

The pope would have to be stupid not to see that this would have offended people. Doubt he is tbh. I'm not sticking up for those who have been offended and have protested btw, they can fuck off too. I can't believe people are tarring all Muslims with the same brush though. Actually, I can.

 

I'm not tarring all muslims with the same brush though. Moderate muslims who are happy to live in and contribute to our secular society are welcome in my book. BUT I think there is now a sizable minority who don't fit this description, and they are the ones mainly to blame for the increasing hostility towards the muslim population.

 

Regarding the pope, he should say what he thinks without having to worry about how certain sections of Islam are going to react. Like I say, it's incredibly ironic that the protesters proved him right.

More aimed at others tbh, in this thread though. I largely agree with what you say above too but the Pope was irresponsible (in my view) in what he said. He should be able top say what he wants in an ideal world but he knows he can't and he probably knew exactly what he was getting himself into here.

 

Yup, Alex, I noticed. I'm just venting my spleen, because I really am beginning to feel oppressed by fundamentalist Islam and the way it's screwing up the world. If in the process of venting that spleen, I appear to have tarred all muslims with the same brush, I apologise. OK, maybe I'm too willing to succumb to the inherent Islamophobic attitudes that pervade the western media - but if you can't see what a threat Islam presents to the western way of life, then I'd be interested to learn why not...

 

As regards the Pope...well I see no reason why just because it offends their nutty belief system, the Pope shouldn't allude to the history of violence that has attended the development of Islam through the ages...I don't think this is as black-white an issue as some would have it.

Fair enough. I think Islamic fundamentalism worries everyone who is right minded.

I have trouble defending any religious beliefs tbh, but I would still defend people's rights to hold those beliefs as long they don't then impinge on other's beliefs

[Guest alex]

Another 30+ pager on the cards once Leazes turns up like

[Gemmill 44107]

I was tarring all bearded 20 year olds with the same brush ftr.

[adios 717]

I was tarring all bearded 20 year olds with the same brush ftr.

 

I don't see what Glenn Roeder has to do with all this?

[NJS 4355]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Catholic dogma states that the Pope is infallible - he cannot make mistakes as he is "God's spokesman" on earth therefore an apology is in a way heretical.

 

I despise orgainzed religion but I don't agree it was deliberate - as I said earlier I think it was the mistake of an arrogant intellectual.

 

I'd also like to say that the next person who says "But Islam means peace" should be shot dead on the spot.

Edited September 18, 2006 by NJS

[aimaad22 4085]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Catholic dogma states that the Pope is infallible - he cannot make mistakes as he is "God's spokesman" on earth therefore an apology is in a way heretical.

 

I despise orgainzed religion but I don't agree it was deliberate - as I said earlier I think it was the mistake of an arrogant intellectual.

 

I'd also like to say that the next person who says "But Islam means peace" should be shot dead on the spot.

 

Islam does mean peace. Its Arabic acutally. And killing nuns and burning churches is not fundamental Islam(as somebody called it earlier in the thread) for heavens sake. If you people were to do a bit of research before trying to be clever and passing on cheeky comments you would know that kind of thing is completely prohibited by Islam and anyone who does it is not a muslim although he may call himself that. These people are not extremists or 'fundamental muslims', they are people who are using Islam as a cover up to carry out whatever evil ambitions they've got, and the world just seems to be falling for their plot. They may be muslims by name, but Islam does not mean anything to them, so they'll gladly use it for their own purposes. Please acutally try and do a bit of research on something before passing a verdict on it, you and a few others obviously know nothing about Islam and base your opinions on whatever you read in papers and watch on the TV.

 

 

Now people blowing themselves up in Iraq/Afghanistan is somewhat different. They are desperate, weak and largely helpless muslims who are trying to fight an invasion.

 

Also, a few bomb blasts here and there makes muslims ruthless killers, but facts such as the US wiping out 50 000 people in Japan with a single bomb or the estimate that 60000-180000 people(most of them innocent) have been killed by western forces in Iraq and afghanistan thus far dont seem to bother many people.

[adios 717]

Also, a few bomb blasts here and there makes muslims ruthless killers, but facts such as the US wiping out 50 000 people in Japan with a single bomb or the estimate that 60000-180000 people(most of them innocent) have been killed by western forces in Iraq and afghanistan thus far dont seem to bother many people.

 

Bothers most of the people I know, you've just made the same error you're accusing other people of, see how that works?

Edited September 18, 2006 by ObaGol

[NJS 4355]

I don't give a shit what it "means" - people are defined by their actions.

 

Muslims worldwide hold to the "identity" of Islam - they speak of a brotherhood which sounds very noble until it becomes apparent that too many of them are fuckwits - then it becomes "but they are't real muslims" or other such bollocks. When the sectarian violence in Iraq really kicked off I read posts on the BBC from Muslims claiming it had to be the CIA/Mossad as "true" muslims wouldn't bomb mosques - get real.

 

Stop hiding behind "its just a few" and address the real issues - you have a holy book which specifically encourages believers to kill infidels (200 "though shalt not kills" do not negate a promise of paradise) - the bible has the same but they're arent anywhere near as many idiots who actually take it at its word.

 

The sad fact is that despite their noble ideals Islam and Christianity at a big picture level have brought nothing to the human race but misery and death.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

I don't give a shit what it "means" - people are defined by their actions.

 

Muslims worldwide hold to the "identity" of Islam - they speak of a brotherhood which sounds very noble until it becomes apparent that too many of them are fuckwits - then it becomes "but they are't real muslims" or other such bollocks. When the sectarian violence in Iraq really kicked off I read posts on the BBC from Muslims claiming it had to be the CIA/Mossad as "true" muslims wouldn't bomb mosques - get real.

 

Stop hiding behind "its just a few" and address the real issues - you have a holy book which specifically encourages believers to kill infidels (200 "though shalt not kills" do not negate a promise of paradise) - the bible has the same but they're arent anywhere near as many idiots who actually take it at its word.

 

The sad fact is that despite their noble ideals Islam and Christianity at a big picture level have brought nothing to the human race but misery and death.

 

A good post. Anyone who thinks all muslims are like the lunatics we hear from all the time is wrong, but that doesn't hide certain facts. And one of those is that as a religion it has far more angry, volatile, over the top and at times extremely violent reactions to any random slight they percieve.

 

To challenge the view your religion is evil and hate filled by bombing churches, attacking a nun and holding mass protests round the world wanting the pope dead etc. because he mentioned some quote from years ago is just frightening! And that following on from attacks on all things Danish when they published some cartoons in a newspaper, and there are other examples which always result in mass angry protests.

 

I hate all orgaised religions to be honest, but if somebody had come out and said the same comments about christianity you would probably have had a few priests on tv have a whinge and a few people getting mildly annoyed and probably not much else, particularly as the quote was from the bloody middle ages or soemthign like that!

 

People who think all muslims are like that and think they are actually evil etc. would be morons, but anyone who doesn't think as a religion it has far more dangerous and over the top reactions than other religions and leads to more trouble these days are being naive.

 

I mean when was the last time you can ever remember any catholics, protestants, jews, buddhists, mormons, quakers, jedis...etc. etc. going around burning, torching and destroying things and demanding the death of people who have insulted them, not very likely is it? And i don't like those religions either (except the Buddhists and Jedis of course!) but you don't see this same problem en masse with them.

 

And as somebody mentioned earlier in the thread i found it amusing that the pope apologised since he's infalible and represents the will/word of god. He should be sacked tbh!

Edited September 18, 2006 by Papa Lazaru

[Mad-on-the-cocks 0]

Two great posts.

[aimaad22 4085]

you have a holy book which specifically encourages believers to kill infidels

 

What the......where did you get that from?? Its says nothing of the sort. Only in self-defence.

 

The sad fact is that despite their noble ideals Islam and Christianity at a big picture level have brought nothing to the human race but misery and death.

 

Thats what most people dont get. Its not Islam or Christianity that have bought the world to war, its exactly the opposite. Its people either forgetting, or completely altering the teachings of Islam and Christianity that has led to this stage. How many people on this thread have said 'I dont give a crap about religion'? Thats happening all over the world, people forgetting true religion or altering it to suit whatever they feel like at the time. Its not just happening to religion, while muslims and christians are forgetting what their religion tells them, ethics morals etc are disappearing gradually on the world level, no doubt about it.