Muslims

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Well, if I had to stick with one denomination of Christianity I'd go CoE. It's relatively progressive, and it amuses me that several of its influential members patently don't believe in God.

 

The Catholic church is on the wane and will all but disappear from Western Europe in decades imo. I don't think we need it and good riddance tbh, as long as it isn't being replaced by other more extreme creeds, which unfortunately looks like it may be happening.

 

Aye, CoE always seems like the most harmless of the religions, middle of the road, the Phil Collins of faiths if you will.

[Renton 21050]

I quite admire the little Evangelical places you see that are just glorified sheds, like the one near Barclays at Four Lane Ends; in that they don't seem to need all the extra guff a lot of religions do to worship. That said, beautiful architecture is one of the only things I like about religion.

 

That said, the evangelical churches in the US are incredibly stage-managed with multi-million dollar props.

 

Agree about the Architecture, but as recent religious buildings have shown that is largely reserved for the past (with some exceptions, e.g. the Familia de Sagrada)

[Guest alex]

I quite admire the little Evangelical places you see that are just glorified sheds, like the one near Barclays at Four Lane Ends; in that they don't seem to need all the extra guff a lot of religions do to worship. That said, beautiful architecture is one of the only things I like about religion.

 

That said, the evangelical churches in the US are incredibly stage-managed with multi-million dollar props.

 

Agree about the Architecture, but as recent religious buildings have shown that is largely reserved for the past (with some exceptions, e.g. the Familia de Sagrada)

La Sagrada de Familia will be nice when it's finished like It's magnificent though all the same. You're right about most of the decent stuff being old too. I suppose Sacre Coeur is relatively recent but I'm struggling to come up with other examples.

The first time I went to America and saw 'Televangelism' I couldn't believe it - mental.

[Rob W 0]

".... and, Brothers & Sisters, today's text is "money is the ROOT of ALL evil!""

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

".... and, Brothers & Sisters, today's text is "money is the ROOT of ALL evil!""

 

 

Come on Rob get it right. The love of money is the root of all evil

[Renton 21050]

".... and, Brothers & Sisters, today's text is "money is the ROOT of ALL evil!""

 

 

Come on Rob get it right. The love of money is the root of all evil

 

Which is clearly bollocks, incidentally.

[Guest alex]

".... and, Brothers & Sisters, today's text is "money is the ROOT of ALL evil!""

I know, meanwhile instructions for how to make your credit card donations are flashing along the bottom of the screen.

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

".... and, Brothers & Sisters, today's text is "money is the ROOT of ALL evil!""

 

 

Come on Rob get it right. The love of money is the root of all evil

 

Which is clearly bollocks, incidentally.

 

 

I dunno, it has a certain pithy validity

[Renton 21050]

".... and, Brothers & Sisters, today's text is "money is the ROOT of ALL evil!""

 

 

Come on Rob get it right. The love of money is the root of all evil

 

Which is clearly bollocks, incidentally.

 

 

I dunno, it has a certain pithy validity

 

It accounts for a lot but not all evil. Truely evil people are often motivated by power more than money, and then there's crimes of passion, sex crimes, and simple spite.

[Guest alex]

The debate is set to move into the definition/existence of evil

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

".... and, Brothers & Sisters, today's text is "money is the ROOT of ALL evil!""

 

 

Come on Rob get it right. The love of money is the root of all evil

 

Which is clearly bollocks, incidentally.

 

 

I dunno, it has a certain pithy validity

 

It accounts for a lot but not all evil. Truely evil people are often motivated by power more than money, and then there's crimes of passion, sex crimes, and simple spite.

 

So not bollocks at all then, just a bit of an exaggeration

[adios 717]

thought not

 

I'll explain it later, I'm not getting drawn into a long discussion when I've got other things I need to do. If I've misrepresented myself on here to the point where you assume I'd say something like that without being able to back it up, fair enough, otherwise, shut it, you arrogant sod.

[Rob W 0]

Hitler, Stalin & Pol Pott weren't in it for the $$$$$

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

thought not

 

I'll explain it later, I'm not getting drawn into a long discussion when I've got other things I need to do. If I've misrepresented myself on here to the point where you assume I'd say something like that without being able to back it up, fair enough, otherwise, shut it, you arrogant sod.

 

 

Just found the comment surprising, but I forgot you were a papist bog trotter

 

I am interested in why you would say such a thing though

[Renton 21050]

thought not

 

I'll explain it later, I'm not getting drawn into a long discussion when I've got other things I need to do. If I've misrepresented myself on here to the point where you assume I'd say something like that without being able to back it up, fair enough, otherwise, shut it, you arrogant sod.

 

 

Just found the comment surprising, but I forgot you were a papist bog trotter

 

I am interested in why you would say such a thing though

 

Got to admit Sponge, I'm curious as to whether you've got a specific problem with catholicism given some of your comments......

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

thought not

 

I'll explain it later, I'm not getting drawn into a long discussion when I've got other things I need to do. If I've misrepresented myself on here to the point where you assume I'd say something like that without being able to back it up, fair enough, otherwise, shut it, you arrogant sod.

 

 

Just found the comment surprising, but I forgot you were a papist bog trotter

 

I am interested in why you would say such a thing though

 

Got to admit Sponge, I'm curious as to whether you've got a specific problem with catholicism given some of your comments......

 

Nah not me, I hate all of them. I just thought papist bog trotter was a good insult. Actually when it comes to non iron i think the proddies are a load worse than the catholics

[Gemmill 44107]

Feckless bog-frog dickhead is a good insult for Obagol. It takes account of both his Irish roots and the fact that he lives in France.

[adios 717]

As much as I don't like organised religion and realise there are plenty of us who don't require it, I am convinced there is still a significant number who do need a "higher power", whether it be a bogeyman or just a belief system that helps them avoid the chasm that is the reality of their own death. I don't know whether it's genetic or merely deeply rooted, but the fact that it seems to be deeply rooted in all societies suggests its at least partially the former. In any case it's not going away overnight. So we have to deal with the current reality that society's evolution needs to include some form of organised religion, one which should gradually fade to common sense, respect and reason.

 

As to which religion? I don't know enough about all of them to make a full judgement, but it has to be a major one for practical reasons. Muslimism is obviously archaic and unenlightened even by the standards of organised religion, Judaism, possibly the most enlightened but very insular, I like the intropspection of Buddhism, but was quite disappointed to find its sense of community seemed a bit lacking, I haven't a clue about Hinduism other than to name some of its better known deities, I'd probably have more luck comparing S Club 7 to these other religions. Christianity is very evolved, has rationality and some semblance of philosophical thought, but don't even talk to me about these bat-shit crazy US varieties. I picked Catholicism in spite of its obvious problems just because it might be big enough to win the battle, in an ideal world, I agree, Church of England could well be the best choice, or Catharism?

 

Just so it's clear where I stand, no member of the CoE or Islam ever tried to rape members of my community in the arse. I'm not a fan of RobW infallibility, let alone the Papal Bulls. I don't personally like organised religion, but reckon plenty still need it.

 

Blah, blah, piddle; I hope that made enough sense to answer both Bob l'Eponge and Alex.

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

I see your point, but I dont know if it really makes much sense. People need education not superstition

[Guest alex]

Interesting points and I can see where you're coming from. Personally I think we should be moving away from religions for a few reasons. If you start to base a moral code on something which has little or no basis in reality then I think you're on dangerous ground, i.e. when people see through the religion then why should they continue to obey, for example, the 10 commandments? I also worry about religion being so open to interpretation that people use it to justify actions against others. I don't think that's too far away from your view though although I'm not sure people 'need' organised religion.

[adios 717]

Well, the burden of proof is obviously on me here, at some point I may provide it, but it's a biggie, so please don't hold your breath, with the possible exception of Leazes.

 

I agree with both of you in principal, but I believe that in reality what all rational people want will take generations to achieve, and even then will most likely be a compromise.

[Renton 21050]

As much as I don't like organised religion and realise there are plenty of us who don't require it, I am convinced there is still a significant number who do need a "higher power", whether it be a bogeyman or just a belief system that helps them avoid the chasm that is the reality of their own death. I don't know whether it's genetic or merely deeply rooted, but the fact that it seems to be deeply rooted in all societies suggests its at least partially the former. In any case it's not going away overnight. So we have to deal with the current reality that society's evolution needs to include some form of organised religion, one which should gradually fade to common sense, respect and reason.

 

As to which religion? I don't know enough about all of them to make a full judgement, but it has to be a major one for practical reasons. Muslimism is obviously archaic and unenlightened even by the standards of organised religion, Judaism, possibly the most enlightened but very insular, I like the intropspection of Buddhism, but was quite disappointed to find its sense of community seemed a bit lacking, I haven't a clue about Hinduism other than to name some of its better known deities, I'd probably have more luck comparing S Club 7 to these other religions. Christianity is very evolved, has rationality and some semblance of philosophical thought, but don't even talk to me about these bat-shit crazy US varieties. I picked Catholicism in spite of its obvious problems just because it might be big enough to win the battle, in an ideal world, I agree, Church of England could well be the best choice, or Catharism?

 

Just so it's clear where I stand, no member of the CoE or Islam ever tried to rape members of my community in the arse. I'm not a fan of RobW infallibility, let alone the Papal Bulls. I don't personally like organised religion, but reckon plenty still need it.

 

Blah, blah, piddle; I hope that made enough sense to answer both Bob l'Eponge and Alex.

 

You've just made a very good post whilst at the same time talked complete cobblers!

 

Well done, quite an achievement.

[Guest alex]

I suppose it's about whether or not we'd be better off without religion. On first look, it's seems like an obvious 'yes'. But I can see why it isn't as simple as that and it's not like it's just going to go away, perhaps ever. It's like one of those things that, if it didn't exist, someone would invent it. Which is, of course, what happened

[Renton 21050]

I suppose it's about whether or not we'd be better off without religion. On first look, it's seems like an obvious 'yes'. But I can see why it isn't as simple as that and it's not like it's just going to go away, perhaps ever. It's like one of those things that, if it didn't exist, someone would invent it. Which is, of course, what happened

 

If people were taught about enlightenment and how to think rationally, there would be no need for it. Of course, it's not going to die out overnight, but rather at it's own pace, generation by generation. The dangers are, as I've mentioned, there will be gaps left which will fill with more extreme religions and cults. But these should be minimized - education is the key.

 

Btw Dotbum, I'm sure I read somewhere that France is now the most Godless country on Earth. Fancy that.

[adios 717]

You've just made a very good post whilst at the same time talked complete cobblers!

 

Well done, quite an achievement.

 

If you ant absolute truths you should try Christianity.

 

Seriously though, I've breezed over a topic that requires at least one volume to discuss properly and not even given it a re-read, despite that I'm fairly sure I haven't said anything wrong, though some of it is obviously open for long debate. What bits do you not agree with in particular?

 

(Why am I asking this when I need to not get into this?)