Pope: "Muhammad has brought only evil and inhuman things".

[Rob W 0]

I've lived & worked in all sorts of Christian countries and several Muslim ones and its impossible to generalise

 

people are people and they are much the same whatever religion they notionally profess

 

I've seen as many drunks and gamblers in Muslim countries as I've seen in the Bible Belt

 

I've also been made very very welcome by people in both places

 

stop labelling people to suit your political agendas folks

[Guest alex]

I've lived & worked in all sorts of Christian countries and several Muslim ones and its impossible to generalise

 

people are people and they are much the same whatever religion they notionally profess

 

I've seen as many drunks and gamblers in Muslim countries as I've seen in the Bible Belt

 

I've also been made very very welcome by people in both places

 

stop labelling people to suit your political agendas folks

You do realise you've just made a generalisation about the views of people in this thread don't you?

I agree with the rest of you sentiments though.

[Renton 21050]

ref the treatment of women isn't there a major Christian mob who don't allow women fullscale participation and insist their operatives don't marry???

 

I don't understand what you are saying, quite literally. However, my assertion is women are treated very poorly in almost all islamic countries, we're not just talking about islated cases here. I don't regard that as a generalisation - it's the norm. The same goes for refusing people the right to free speech.

[Zathras 244]

Can you just answer me this then. Name me an islamic country which you admire or would want to live in. Perhaps one that has a semblance of human rights for all men and women. Many are poor which doesn't help, but then again look at the wealth of Saudi etc.

 

The country with the largest population of Muslims in the world is Indonesia. Wouldn't mind living there, also India (#3) where I have in fact lived.

 

What I might note about both of those countries--they are democracies. Indonesia at least before and after the reign of Suharto. I cannot think that that is an insignificant coincidence.

[Guest alex]

ref the treatment of women isn't there a major Christian mob who don't allow women fullscale participation and insist their operatives don't marry???

The Catholic Church, while prejudicial, can't really compare to the traditional Islamic views on the roles of women though, can it? And Priests aren't forced to become priests are they?

[Guest alex]

Can you just answer me this then. Name me an islamic country which you admire or would want to live in. Perhaps one that has a semblance of human rights for all men and women. Many are poor which doesn't help, but then again look at the wealth of Saudi etc.

 

The country with the largest population of Muslims in the world is Indonesia. Wouldn't mind living there, also India (#3) where I have in fact lived.

 

What I might note about both of those countries--they are democracies. Indonesia at least before and after the reign of Suharto. I cannot think that that is an insignificant coincidence.

India may have the third largest population of Muslims but it isn't an Islamic country.

[spongebob toonpants 3902]

You'd need to see a transcript of the speech to judge it.

 

 

I choose to base my reaction on my established dislike of the Pope, and condemn this statement as not only stupid but also unhelpful and dangerous. In fact the last thing we need.

 

Before people go all Leazes on me I hate all organised religion equally, they are all the problem

 

I might be biased, and in fact I am, but I actually do find islam a particularly reprehensible faith and dislike the socieities it has created immensely. The worst aspect of it is the fact that you cannot crticise it without having a fatwa put on you, but I find it wrong on so many levels. It basically belongs in the dark ages, if there even.

 

Other faiths have their problems but none have led to so many problems as islam imo.

 

 

All as bad as each other. All as wrong as each other All evil

 

Well when I look at the treatment of women, Shariah law, the fact that any kind of debate on religion is stifled in virtually all islamic countries, the fact that they believe in a global brotherhood, fatwas, jihads, terrorism, non-integration into western soceities and a sizable proportion wanting to destroy them, hysteria about cartoons, removing Israel from the face of the earth, obsession with the afterlife, and finally the fact it is a completely joyless religion where all the fun things are banned (e.g. drinking, gambling, and bacon), I would say Islam is by far the worst religion on the planet. In fact, it reminds me more of a global cult.

 

I realise that many of these thing also apply to christianity and other religions, but not to the same extent imo. To say that all religions are equal to me is as preposterous as saying all philosophies, societies, or even governments are equal. Would you give the Koresh cult the same status as the C of E?

 

 

The main difference between the Koresh cult and the C of E is the CofE has been round longer.

 

As for the rest of it - nice generalisation.

 

I agree with you about the bacon mind.

 

Glad you can spot the difference. My bit about the oppression of women and Shariah law is not really a generalisation though, is it? Neither is their fundamental belief that freedom of speech should be curtailed, even in non-islamic countries (this applies to other religions but none so strongly). Agree or disagree?

 

 

No need for the "Agree or Disagree" nonsense man. Dont go all Leazes

 

I am against all forms of opression and I plainly wouldnt want to live under Shariah law, in fact there are undoubtably an abundance of places where life is appalling.

 

However my beleif is that organised religion, no matter what the type, is based on superstition and lies, is and has been throuought history used to the benefit of the few at the expence of the many. It is a vehicle of ignorance that controls the behaviour and thoughts of the masses.

 

Christianity hasnt changed out of an inherant goodness, it is just the increasing knowledge of those who would have been blind followers means it has had to adapt to try and prevent becoming more marginalised.

The enlightenment doesnt come from within.

 

To say Islam is worse is to miss the point. It is ignorance and poverty and corruption that is the problem. Fuck knows what the solution is, but it is not proving that Islam is worse than Christianity

Edited September 15, 2006 by spongebob toonpants

[Rob W 0]

Can you just answer me this then. Name me an islamic country which you admire or would want to live in. Perhaps one that has a semblance of human rights for all men and women. Many are poor which doesn't help, but then again look at the wealth of Saudi etc.

 

The country with the largest population of Muslims in the world is Indonesia. Wouldn't mind living there, also India (#3) where I have in fact lived.

 

What I might note about both of those countries--they are democracies. Indonesia at least before and after the reign of Suharto. I cannot think that that is an insignificant coincidence.

 

 

Indonesia is very odd - the majority are Muslim but they have a very strong undercurrent of Hinduism and traditional beliefs. Its a sort of "Church of England " variety - high days and holy days, births deaths and marriages and a sort of general beleif in islam but not carried away

 

Always remember the Mayor of Mecca was visiting in the early 1980's and at a press conference he was asked what he thought of Indonesia - all the usual bs of course but he couldn't understand why Saturday & Sunday were the days off when it should be Friday & Saturday

 

The Minister for Religion, who was sitting next to him looked totally baffled - "well its always been like that - the Dutch introduced it - it would be crazy to change it now"

[Guest alex]

You'd need to see a transcript of the speech to judge it.

 

 

I choose to base my reaction on my established dislike of the Pope, and condemn this statement as not only stupid but also unhelpful and dangerous. In fact the last thing we need.

 

Before people go all Leazes on me I hate all organised religion equally, they are all the problem

 

I might be biased, and in fact I am, but I actually do find islam a particularly reprehensible faith and dislike the socieities it has created immensely. The worst aspect of it is the fact that you cannot crticise it without having a fatwa put on you, but I find it wrong on so many levels. It basically belongs in the dark ages, if there even.

 

Other faiths have their problems but none have led to so many problems as islam imo.

 

 

All as bad as each other. All as wrong as each other All evil

 

Well when I look at the treatment of women, Shariah law, the fact that any kind of debate on religion is stifled in virtually all islamic countries, the fact that they believe in a global brotherhood, fatwas, jihads, terrorism, non-integration into western soceities and a sizable proportion wanting to destroy them, hysteria about cartoons, removing Israel from the face of the earth, obsession with the afterlife, and finally the fact it is a completely joyless religion where all the fun things are banned (e.g. drinking, gambling, and bacon), I would say Islam is by far the worst religion on the planet. In fact, it reminds me more of a global cult.

 

I realise that many of these thing also apply to christianity and other religions, but not to the same extent imo. To say that all religions are equal to me is as preposterous as saying all philosophies, societies, or even governments are equal. Would you give the Koresh cult the same status as the C of E?

 

 

The main difference between the Koresh cult and the C of E is the CofE has been round longer.

 

As for the rest of it - nice generalisation.

 

I agree with you about the bacon mind.

 

Glad you can spot the difference. My bit about the oppression of women and Shariah law is not really a generalisation though, is it? Neither is their fundamental belief that freedom of speech should be curtailed, even in non-islamic countries (this applies to other religions but none so strongly). Agree or disagree?

 

 

No need for the "Agree or Disagree" nonsense man. Dont go all Leazes

 

I am against all forms of opression and I plainly wouldnt want to live under Shariah law, in fact there are undoubtably an abundance of places where life is appalling.

 

However my beleif is that organised religion, no matter what the type, is based on superstition and lies, is and has been throuought history used to the benefit of the few at the expence of the many. It is a vehicle of ignorance that controls the behaviour and thoughts of the masses.

 

Christianity hasnt changed out of an inherant goodness, it is just the increasing knowledge of those who would have been blind followers means it has had to adapt to try and prevent becoming more marginalised.

The enlightenment doesnt come from within.

 

To say Islam is worse is to miss the point. It is ignorance and poverty and corruption that is the problem. Fuck knows what the solution is, but it is not proving that Islam is worse than Christianity

Well said.

[Zathras 244]

Can you just answer me this then. Name me an islamic country which you admire or would want to live in. Perhaps one that has a semblance of human rights for all men and women. Many are poor which doesn't help, but then again look at the wealth of Saudi etc.

 

The country with the largest population of Muslims in the world is Indonesia. Wouldn't mind living there, also India (#3) where I have in fact lived.

 

What I might note about both of those countries--they are democracies. Indonesia at least before and after the reign of Suharto. I cannot think that that is an insignificant coincidence.

India may have the third largest population of Muslims but it isn't an Islamic country.

 

Then what is an "Islamic country?" True enough India was founded as a secular state, but it's hardly been secular in the sense of England or the USA. It seems like the only places people think of as "Islamic countries" are dictatorships or monarchies where things are obviously going to be worse in general than in a free and democratic society (not that democracy in and of itself will immediately bring change--see Iraq (muslim) and the Democratic Republic of Congo (devoutly christian) for proof.)

[Renton 21050]

You'd need to see a transcript of the speech to judge it.

 

 

I choose to base my reaction on my established dislike of the Pope, and condemn this statement as not only stupid but also unhelpful and dangerous. In fact the last thing we need.

 

Before people go all Leazes on me I hate all organised religion equally, they are all the problem

 

I might be biased, and in fact I am, but I actually do find islam a particularly reprehensible faith and dislike the socieities it has created immensely. The worst aspect of it is the fact that you cannot crticise it without having a fatwa put on you, but I find it wrong on so many levels. It basically belongs in the dark ages, if there even.

 

Other faiths have their problems but none have led to so many problems as islam imo.

 

 

All as bad as each other. All as wrong as each other All evil

 

Well when I look at the treatment of women, Shariah law, the fact that any kind of debate on religion is stifled in virtually all islamic countries, the fact that they believe in a global brotherhood, fatwas, jihads, terrorism, non-integration into western soceities and a sizable proportion wanting to destroy them, hysteria about cartoons, removing Israel from the face of the earth, obsession with the afterlife, and finally the fact it is a completely joyless religion where all the fun things are banned (e.g. drinking, gambling, and bacon), I would say Islam is by far the worst religion on the planet. In fact, it reminds me more of a global cult.

 

I realise that many of these thing also apply to christianity and other religions, but not to the same extent imo. To say that all religions are equal to me is as preposterous as saying all philosophies, societies, or even governments are equal. Would you give the Koresh cult the same status as the C of E?

 

 

The main difference between the Koresh cult and the C of E is the CofE has been round longer.

 

As for the rest of it - nice generalisation.

 

I agree with you about the bacon mind.

 

Glad you can spot the difference. My bit about the oppression of women and Shariah law is not really a generalisation though, is it? Neither is their fundamental belief that freedom of speech should be curtailed, even in non-islamic countries (this applies to other religions but none so strongly). Agree or disagree?

 

 

No need for the "Agree or Disagree" nonsense man. Dont go all Leazes

 

I am against all forms of opression and I plainly wouldnt want to live under Shariah law, in fact there are undoubtably an abundance of places where life is appalling.

 

However my beleif is that organised religion, no matter what the type, is based on superstition and lies, is and has been throuought history used to the benefit of the few at the expence of the many. It is a vehicle of ignorance that controls the behaviour and thoughts of the masses.

 

Christianity hasnt changed out of an inherant goodness, it is just the increasing knowledge of those who would have been blind followers means it has had to adapt to try and prevent becoming more marginalised.

The enlightenment doesnt come from within.

 

To say Islam is worse is to miss the point. It is ignorance and poverty and corruption that is the problem. Fuck knows what the solution is, but it is not proving that Islam is worse than Christianity

Well said.

 

 

Actually SpongeBob, that was well said and I largely, although not totally, agree.

[Renton 21050]

Can you just answer me this then. Name me an islamic country which you admire or would want to live in. Perhaps one that has a semblance of human rights for all men and women. Many are poor which doesn't help, but then again look at the wealth of Saudi etc.

 

The country with the largest population of Muslims in the world is Indonesia. Wouldn't mind living there, also India (#3) where I have in fact lived.

 

What I might note about both of those countries--they are democracies. Indonesia at least before and after the reign of Suharto. I cannot think that that is an insignificant coincidence.

India may have the third largest population of Muslims but it isn't an Islamic country.

 

Then what is an "Islamic country?" True enough India was founded as a secular state, but it's hardly been secular in the sense of England or the USA. It seems like the only places people think of as "Islamic countries" are dictatorships or monarchies where things are obviously going to be worse in general than in a free and democratic society (not that democracy in and of itself will immediately bring change--see Iraq (muslim) and the Democratic Republic of Congo (devoutly christian) for proof.)

 

India's mainly Hindu I thought?

[Guest alex]

I'd love to hear someone try to defend the role of Indonesia in East Timor.

[Guest alex]

Can you just answer me this then. Name me an islamic country which you admire or would want to live in. Perhaps one that has a semblance of human rights for all men and women. Many are poor which doesn't help, but then again look at the wealth of Saudi etc.

 

The country with the largest population of Muslims in the world is Indonesia. Wouldn't mind living there, also India (#3) where I have in fact lived.

 

What I might note about both of those countries--they are democracies. Indonesia at least before and after the reign of Suharto. I cannot think that that is an insignificant coincidence.

India may have the third largest population of Muslims but it isn't an Islamic country.

 

Then what is an "Islamic country?"

A country where the majority are Muslim would be a fairly good starting point.

[ChezGiven 0]

But Renton, you've taken all the worst aspects from various different parts of Islamic extremism and used them to say it's the worst religion on the planet. That's a massive over-simplification in my view. I'm not a fan of any particular religion but I think that in you look into areas of the world where Islam manifests (or is portrayed as manifesting) itself in the form of violent extremism then you will find there are many different causes behind it. Many of which lie close to home too.

 

I agree to an extent Alex, and obviouisly I was doing a bit of fishing in my post, but the more I find out about Islam the less I like it. Anyway, I think Chez Given hit the nail on the head on the first page, they have yet to have a period of enlightenment. Give it 500 years and it might be more acceptable to me (my head suspended in a futurama-type tank).

What about the Moors and their period of rule which included religious tolerance, academic brilliance and technological advancement then? They were enlightened when London was little more than a village. The reason I say that is because I think the problems with Islam are about the way the world is today and more about the hypocritical policies of the west than it is about them 'needing to catch' with Christianity.

 

Presume you mean the Ottoman empire alex?

 

Wasnt that just an arab secular state?

 

London was more than a village by the 7th century which is when Islam started.

[Guest alex]

But Renton, you've taken all the worst aspects from various different parts of Islamic extremism and used them to say it's the worst religion on the planet. That's a massive over-simplification in my view. I'm not a fan of any particular religion but I think that in you look into areas of the world where Islam manifests (or is portrayed as manifesting) itself in the form of violent extremism then you will find there are many different causes behind it. Many of which lie close to home too.

 

I agree to an extent Alex, and obviouisly I was doing a bit of fishing in my post, but the more I find out about Islam the less I like it. Anyway, I think Chez Given hit the nail on the head on the first page, they have yet to have a period of enlightenment. Give it 500 years and it might be more acceptable to me (my head suspended in a futurama-type tank).

What about the Moors and their period of rule which included religious tolerance, academic brilliance and technological advancement then? They were enlightened when London was little more than a village. The reason I say that is because I think the problems with Islam are about the way the world is today and more about the hypocritical policies of the west than it is about them 'needing to catch' with Christianity.

 

Presume you mean the Ottoman empire alex?

 

Wasnt that just an arab secular state?

 

London was more than a village by the 7th century which is when Islam started.

Nah, I meant the Moors. Exaggerated about London but it wasn't much to write home about compared to somewhere like Cordoba in, say, the 11th Century

[Toonpack 9111]

The right wing American "gentle God's" followers say:

 

What is there that does NOT "stir Muslim anger"? Those goat-raping barbarians are looking for excuses to do violence and murder, q.v., the cartoons that led to muzzie riots.

The gene pool needs chlorinating.

 

 

 

Seems to me that the the Pope has struck a nerve...maybe the muzzies oughta do a wee bit of introspection. That they dare equate their moon god to the One True God, is laughable (at best).

 

 

I think we need more Christian Emperors, or atleast a few Vlad the Impalers.

 

 

 

The sun comes up in the east. Stirs Muslim anger.

 

Is there anything that doesn't put these Death Cult Diaperheads in a snit?

[Guest alex]

Do any of them like Muhammed Ali?

[Renton 21050]

Do any of them like Muhammed Ali?

 

Just Cassius Clay tbh.

[Rob W 0]

I'd love to hear someone try to defend the role of Indonesia in East Timor.

 

 

I'm sure the Indons are looking at the current situation in Timor Leste with grim humour TBH - I just missed the latest fracas in May - the people I was going to see where evacuated along the beachthen to Darwin

 

They're back but have a Malaysian APC parked in front of their hotel & office

[Guest alex]

I'd love to hear someone try to defend the role of Indonesia in East Timor.

 

 

I'm sure the Indons are looking at the current situation in Timor Leste with grim humour TBH - I just missed the latest fracas in May - the people I was going to see where evacuated along the beachthen to Darwin

 

They're back but have a Malaysian APC parked in front of their hotel & office

Hmmm...

[LeazesMag 0]

You'd need to see a transcript of the speech to judge it.

 

 

I choose to base my reaction on my established dislike of the Pope, and condemn this statement as not only stupid but also unhelpful and dangerous. In fact the last thing we need.

 

Before people go all Leazes on me I hate all organised religion equally, they are all the problem

 

I might be biased, and in fact I am, but I actually do find islam a particularly reprehensible faith and dislike the socieities it has created immensely. The worst aspect of it is the fact that you cannot crticise it without having a fatwa put on you, but I find it wrong on so many levels. It basically belongs in the dark ages, if there even.

 

Other faiths have their problems but none have led to so many problems as islam imo.

 

 

All as bad as each other. All as wrong as each other All evil

 

Well when I look at the treatment of women, Shariah law, the fact that any kind of debate on religion is stifled in virtually all islamic countries, the fact that they believe in a global brotherhood, fatwas, jihads, terrorism, non-integration into western soceities and a sizable proportion wanting to destroy them, hysteria about cartoons, removing Israel from the face of the earth, obsession with the afterlife, and finally the fact it is a completely joyless religion where all the fun things are banned (e.g. drinking, gambling, and bacon), I would say Islam is by far the worst religion on the planet. In fact, it reminds me more of a global cult.

 

I realise that many of these thing also apply to christianity and other religions, but not to the same extent imo. To say that all religions are equal to me is as preposterous as saying all philosophies, societies, or even governments are equal. Would you give the Koresh cult the same status as the C of E?

 

 

The main difference between the Koresh cult and the C of E is the CofE has been round longer.

 

As for the rest of it - nice generalisation.

 

I agree with you about the bacon mind.

 

Glad you can spot the difference. My bit about the oppression of women and Shariah law is not really a generalisation though, is it? Neither is their fundamental belief that freedom of speech should be curtailed, even in non-islamic countries (this applies to other religions but none so strongly). Agree or disagree?

 

 

No need for the "Agree or Disagree" nonsense man. Dont go all Leazes

 

I am against all forms of opression and I plainly wouldnt want to live under Shariah law, in fact there are undoubtably an abundance of places where life is appalling.

 

However my beleif is that organised religion, no matter what the type, is based on superstition and lies, is and has been throuought history used to the benefit of the few at the expence of the many. It is a vehicle of ignorance that controls the behaviour and thoughts of the masses.

 

Christianity hasnt changed out of an inherant goodness, it is just the increasing knowledge of those who would have been blind followers means it has had to adapt to try and prevent becoming more marginalised.

The enlightenment doesnt come from within.

 

To say Islam is worse is to miss the point. It is ignorance and poverty and corruption that is the problem. Fuck knows what the solution is, but it is not proving that Islam is worse than Christianity

 

Up yours. I think you are talking absolute shit and Renton is far nearer the mark.

[Guest alex]

Wow, what reasoned debate!

[LeazesMag 0]

Wow, what reasoned debate!

 

 

its about as much as the fuckers are worth

[adios 717]

cunt.