Poker question

[Mark 0]

I hate it when people who know fuck all about poker come in and talk shite as if they are experts. How do you explain people like Ivey and Negreanu who make millions every year? Are they just lucky fuckers?

Edited September 14, 2006 by Mark

[spongebob toonpants 4183]

Spongebob, do you play in casinos at all?

 

 

Never been in a casino in my life. Ive never been in a bookies either.

[spongebob toonpants 4183]

You are conning yourself - the only peopel who make money betting are the bookies

 

similarly on cards - even the pro's take a regular hiding

 

 

The mistake you are making Rob is that you are failing to recognise that Poker is a zero-sum game.

 

In other Casino Games Blackjack Roulette etc are negative -sum games. The Casino has an edge, therefore over time you will lose.

The same with betting on the Horses, the bookie sets the odds.

 

With Poker you are playing against the other players, with the house making their money from the rake.

If you can therefore beat the others players at a greater rate than the rake it is very possible to be a long term winning player.

 

That being said the estimate is that 8% of online players are showing a profit which means there are a lot of losers. I know I am winning because I use software to track my tournaments. The accepted measure is ROI (return on investment) which shows I have made 17% profit over 4000 tournaments since May last year.

 

The mistake a lot of players make is moving up in limits too fast, a sort of Peter Principal, where they keep moving up until they reach a level that they cant beat then lose all their money. I have been very conservative and play at a low limit I know I can beat.

[Guest alex]

I would imagine Rob knows exactly what he's talking about despie admitting he never plays cards for money

[Rob W 0]

I would imagine Rob knows exactly what he's talking about despie admitting he never plays cards for money

 

 

I have, of course, studied the odds and even wandered round various casinos in various countries

 

I know a couple of real professional gamblers - and their life style is something of a roller coaster

 

SBT makes a good point about the difference between games such as roulette and poker - I doubt many gamblers keep a real record of their wins and losses as he has. I would question if ROI is a full descritpion of the benifits - you should include your time (evena t minimum wage) for a start

 

RISKED ROI would be quite illuminating as well - how close do you come to losing a lot for example..........

 

 

AS long as you are in the winning 8% its fine but as you say that means 92% are losers

[spongebob toonpants 4183]

I would imagine Rob knows exactly what he's talking about despie admitting he never plays cards for money

 

 

I have, of course, studied the odds and even wandered round various casinos in various countries

 

I know a couple of real professional gamblers - and their life style is something of a roller coaster

 

SBT makes a good point about the difference between games such as roulette and poker - I doubt many gamblers keep a real record of their wins and losses as he has. I would question if ROI is a full descritpion of the benifits - you should include your time (evena t minimum wage) for a start

 

RISKED ROI would be quite illuminating as well - how close do you come to losing a lot for example..........

 

 

AS long as you are in the winning 8% its fine but as you say that means 92% are losers

 

 

I have got the data at home for $ per hour and total time spent playing. The time spent is frightening. I think my hourly rate works out at $22. Not a huge amount, but it is for something I enjoy doing.

 

Risked ROI oesnt really make any sense, I never wager large amounts, I play ten man tournaments with a set entry fee usually of 6,11 or 22 dollars.

[Rob W 0]

That's very interesting - $ 22 an hour - but as you say - small bets = low risks of being wiped out

 

 

I'm not against gambling as long as you see it as an enjoyment

 

The worry comes when people start to think they can win - but that applies to day traders on the stock market as well

[spongebob toonpants 4183]

Downswings are inevitable, I have had 3 times where I have had a downswing of 30 and and one of 40 buy ins.

 

I always make sure I have at least 50 buyins at a particular level and if I go below that I move down to a lower level

Edited September 14, 2006 by spongebob toonpants

[adios 717]

AS long as you are in the winning 8% its fine but as you say that means 92% are losers

 

Rob, what would happen if that logic was applied to any venture? Starting a company, or any career other than a job type job? Just FYI, anyone who actually knows what you think you know has you made. It's embarrassing.

[Rob W 0]

" any career other than a job type job"

 

ahhh you mean any "venture" that offers you the hope of easy money rather than working?

 

as I said I have absolutely nothing against gambling - its the idea that you WILL make money out of it that bugs me

 

Thanks to SBTP we have some data - 8% will, 92% won't

 

now I'm sure that EVERYONE thinks they will be one of the 8% - but they won't

 

$22 an hour isn't bad for being paid for your hobby but its not very good as a basis to live on......................... or get a mortgage or a car loan or whatever

[spongebob toonpants 4183]

" any career other than a job type job"

 

ahhh you mean any "venture" that offers you the hope of easy money rather than working?

 

as I said I have absolutely nothing against gambling - its the idea that you WILL make money out of it that bugs me

 

Thanks to SBTP we have some data - 8% will, 92% won't

 

now I'm sure that EVERYONE thinks they will be one of the 8% - but they won't

 

$22 an hour isn't bad for being paid for your hobby but its not very good as a basis to live on......................... or get a mortgage or a car loan or whatever

 

 

It is as far from easy money as you can get. It is a great way to get some extra income but I would hate to do it as a job

[Meenzer 15807]

Canny return for having a bit of fun and actually enjoying life though

[Guest alex]

Oh dear. Rob again The bloke clearly knows a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff but when he's caught out by a lack of knowledge he just can't let it lie

[Rob W 0]

Uh?

 

I know the odds my friend and SBTP added some very useful practical knowledge and advice for which I thank him

 

always willing to learn I am -

 

from people who have sommat useful to add that is...........................

[Guest alex]

Uh?

 

I know the odds my friend and SBTP added some very useful practical knowledge and advice for which I thank him

 

always willing to learn I am -

 

from people who have sommat useful to add that is...........................

Says the person who wading into a thread about something they knew nowt about

Do you seriously expect people to believe that you know all about the odds of card games yet you never play for money? Been on on google again I reckon. Have a quiet word with yourself man.

Edited September 15, 2006 by alex

[Rob W 0]

Thats a stupid argument - which is a bit odd from you alex

 

you don't have to do something to know about it or even be interested in it

 

this whole board is full of folk spouting off about football and some of them know an awful lot about it but I'll bet there isn't a professional footballer amongst them

 

people rabbit on about Formula 1, astronomy, music, sex and food but I doubt they actually "Do" very much of it - and certainly not professionally

 

silly boy! back of the class again

[Guest alex]

You are conning yourself - the only peopel who make money betting are the bookies

 

similarly on cards - even the pro's take a regular hiding

Basically Rob, you've been backtracking ever since this post Sussed tbh

[Rob W 0]

8% win 92% loose

 

 

you think that's GOOD?

[Guest alex]

8% win 92% loose

 

 

you think that's GOOD?

I'm prepared to admit I know next to nowt about poker Rob

[Meenzer 15807]

I'd classify the 8% as "pros".

[spongebob toonpants 4183]

I'd classify the 8% as "pros".

 

 

Or to use the technical poker term "luckboxes"

[Rob W 0]

8% win 92% loose

 

 

you think that's GOOD?

I'm prepared to admit I know next to nowt about poker Rob

 

 

you never said you did TBH

 

 

anything else you'd like to add to the list while in a confessional mode?

[Guest alex]

8% win 92% loose

 

 

you think that's GOOD?

I'm prepared to admit I know next to nowt about poker Rob

 

 

you never said you did TBH

 

 

anything else you'd like to add to the list while in a confessional mode?

Yeah, I'm unable to not respond to threads where I think you're making things up about your knowledge oin the subject.

[Rob W 0]

tsk tsk tsk

 

but I DO know a lot - a real polymath I am - and I watch a lot of them documentaries and quiz games

 

plus of course I was educated when they expected you to larn sommat

[adios 717]

" any career other than a job type job"

 

ahhh you mean any "venture" that offers you the hope of easy money rather than working?

 

I mean the ventures that someone has had to undertake so that every company you've ever worked for could exist. What professional of any intelligence or importance could fail to understand that?

 

I reckon Rob's one of these unemployed types who sits around watching The Discovery Channel all day and thinks he's an intellectual . Ghosthunters is his favourite.