Souness Out

[Bearsden Mag 0]

Please get out and save the club. The guy is a disaster no matter where he is. Rangers, Benfica etc.

I thought Gordon Lee was bad but he was a genius compared to Souness.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Do you live in a bears den? That must be quite dangerous.

[Optimistic Nut 145]

Or do you run a fanzine for outdoor adventurers?

[Bearsden Mag 0]

It can be as its full of Rangers and Celtic fans

[Scottish Mag 3]

It can be as its full of Rangers and Celtic fans

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True enough...

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Do the Rangers and Celtic fans live in different parts of Glasgow as a rule, or are they scattered and intermingled throughout the city?

[Optimistic Nut 145]

How do you fancy your chances of making the Scotland squad?

[Bearsden Mag 0]

Do the Rangers and Celtic fans live in different parts of Glasgow as a rule, or are they scattered and intermingled throughout the city?

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[adios 717]

What's the price of a pint in Glasgow these days?

[Bearsden Mag 0]

What's the price of a pint in Glasgow these days?

 

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A pint of what?

[adios 717]

Are you buying?

[Optimistic Nut 145]

Pint of whisky.

[Bearsden Mag 0]

Are you buying?

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If youi're in the Strawberry on Saturday, I'm buying.

[adios 717]

It's a tempting offer but seeing as I'm in the South of France at the moment unless it's a pint of Mary Magdelene's urine served in the Holy Grail I'll have to pass.

Edited August 16, 2005 by DotBum

[Bearsden Mag 0]

Dr Noisewater, having lived in Middlesbrough for 4 years, I take great offence about your Bearsden comments

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Dr Noisewater, having lived in Middlesbrough for 4 years, I take great offence about your Bearsden comments

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How do certain parts of Glasgow compare to North Ormesby then?

 

Anyway I'm in Redcar, the classy end of the chemical works.

[LeazesMag 0]

Please get out and save the club. The guy is a disaster no matter where he is. Rangers, Benfica etc.

I thought Gordon Lee was bad but he was a genius compared to Souness.

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Gordon Lee, Keegan and Bobby Robson are the only managers at NUFC to finish in the top 5 in nearly 50 years mate.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Please get out and save the club. The guy is a disaster no matter where he is. Rangers, Benfica etc.

I thought Gordon Lee was bad but he was a genius compared to Souness.

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Gordon Lee, Keegan and Bobby Robson are the only managers at NUFC to finish in the top 5 in nearly 50 years mate.

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LM, you'll be able to help me and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Speaking to a few mates who were around in those days, it seems opinion is or was split on Lee. There are those who hate him and those who rated him. I know you rate him but general wise, was Lee initially hated amongst the fans?

 

Were the fans behind him from the off or was it a gradual thing, once they seen the side take shape and the results started coming in?

 

The reason I ask is could history repeat itself with Souness? If you look through our history, there are uncanny parallels betwen almost all of our managers. For Ruud Gullit read Doug Livingstone. Both fell out with the No.9 Geordie heroes. Doug fell out with Wor jackie and never recovered, despite winning the FA Cup (in which he dropped Wor Jackie only to have his decision undermined by the board, and he didn't last much longer. Gullit as we know fell out with Shearer and never recovered.

 

For KK read Sir Bobby. Both seen as the saviour, both enjoying such incredible highs and taking the club to new heights, and both were treat disgracefuly in the end and pretty much forced out.

 

For Ozzie, read Dinnis, just too soft, too nice. A pushover.

 

Lee sells Supermac and other stars. Souness sells Bellamy and other stars. Neither were liked (or so it seems). Being a bit of a history buff it seems this club has two dimensions to it that side by side are almost identicle as touched on. I was astounded to learn about Dougie Livingstone, swap the names and it could have been Gullit and Shearer. In fact it was. Quite spooky in a way.

 

For Hughie Gallacher read Sir Les. Both sold behind their back, both treat like pieces of meat by the club. Both No.9s and loved by the fans.

 

For Andy Cole, read Jack Smith, nobody knew why they were sold other than the manager. They both scored goals, were at the top of their game, and puff, sold out of the blue. Both sold to Manchester United too for record fees.

 

Could, in your opinion, Souness do a Lee and turn things around? Maybe finish 6th or win a Cup? I know, that neither should be deemed as success for a club of our size and resources but for Souness, it would be a success given the current playing field if you like.

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, and other fans who were around in Lee's day.

[sammynb 3355]

Grass not undermining LM's answer because I will be interested to read it but I've been thinking about posting this quote for quite a while and just haven't gotten around to starting a thread on it, here or on NO:

From A man of two halves by Jack Milburn:

By that time, Bobby Moncur had left the club to grace the turf at Roker Park in a red and white striped shirt, Terry Hibbit was at Birmingham, Terry McDermott at Liverpool and both 'Jinky' Jim Smith and John Tudor were crippled with knee injuries and not only that Joe Harvey had retired. No longer was dad (wor Jackie) the accepted 'insider' as he had been with Joe at the helm and his nose now felt a tad out of joint.

New faces controlled St James' in the form of Blackburn Rovers' former young manager Gordon Lee and his assistant, Richard Dinnis, and dad certainly found headline-grabbing newspaper stories a lot harder to come by as the pair kept the club affairs much closer to their chest.

However, this time at Wembley the Newcastle United players most certainly did not bring shame on themselves and were very unfortunate to lose 2-1 to Manchester City in the final. They had also finished a respectable fifth in the league, but what was to follow at St James' Park was a heady time of player power and managerial chaos, resulting in the sale of every fan's favourite, Malcolm Macdonald, to Arsenal for a whopping 333,333.333 pounds.

Gordon Lee had announced on his arrival that there would be no individual 'stars' at Newcastle and so set about his task, something the Geordie public would never forgive him for. "It brought back stark memories of Dougald Livingstone for me," remarked dad. (wor Jackie.)

...................................................................................................

[Jackies the Lad 0]

During the Gordon Lee time at Newcastle (75-77) the fans were split. mainly because we had been brought up on the No 9 shirt and what it meant for the player and fans alike, but Gordon Lee had other ideas. He will always be remembered by the fans as the manager who sold Supermac, he should be remembered for reaching a top 6 finish and league cup final.

 

Supermac was an instant success on Tyneside and hit the headlines for all the right reasons, he arrived in style and played with a style that scored goals.

 

In 1974 when Newcastle were thrashed at Wembley. The so-called stars thought all they had to do was turn up and win at Wembley and they believed it was our right to win, but without the effort, and we were rightly trounced.

 

Gordon Lee did not want an individual star on tyneside, he wanted a team of stars and whilst that probably infuriated one or two of the players the majority were happy to feel part of the team and IMO boosted their morale and team spirit was at an all time high. We finished 5th for Godsakes and were unlucky to lose at Wembly.

 

Yet again the fans were not satisfied, the style of football being played and the ultimate sacrifice of Supermac being sold to ARSE nal for 350K in the August 0f 1976 brought about an uneasy feeling between player and manager, fans and manager, fans and the board and finally between manager and the board. The obvious outcome was that GL departed Tyneside and we were left with Richard Dinnis. TFD.

 

Apart from KK and SBR Gordon Lee is the only manager in the last 50 years to bring us within a top 6 finish, now that can't be bad. Each of these managers had style, class and oozed confidence and generally you believed in their ability to achieve. They all had success written across their CV. They were not bullies, they were strong managers that knew their stuff. They were tacticians and knew the style of play required for each game. Theywere eagre to promote team spirit that allowed the players to play as a team and the players wanted to be part of that team. Gordon Lees ideas were certainly challenged at the time and I for one was not totally happy, but the results were measured rather quickly. Gordon Lee was only at Newcastle for a couple of years but his record speaks volumes.

 

Please don't come back with two semi-finals just look at where we finished after a team demolishing exercise, don't compare Sourness to Lee, there can be no comparison, Sourness is shite, where did we finish last season, who have we sold since he arrived and take a hard look at who he has bought. Apart from two or maybe three players he has wasted most of the transfer spend and even worse let a number of players go on the cheap.

 

Gordon Lee and Sourness - don't even compare.

[LeazesMag 0]

During the Gordon Lee time at Newcastle (75-77) the fans were split. mainly because we had been brought up on the No 9 shirt and what it meant for the player and fans alike, but Gordon Lee had other ideas. He will always be remembered by the fans as the manager who sold Supermac, he should be remembered for reaching a top 6 finish and league cup final.

 

Supermac was an instant success on Tyneside and hit the headlines for all the right reasons, he arrived in style and played with a style that scored goals.

 

In 1974 when Newcastle were thrashed at Wembley. The so-called stars thought all they had to do was turn up and win at Wembley and they believed it was our right to win, but without the effort, and we were rightly trounced.

 

Gordon Lee did not want an individual star on tyneside, he wanted a team of stars and whilst that probably infuriated one or two of the players the majority were happy to feel part of the team and IMO boosted their morale and team spirit was at an all time high. We finished 5th for Godsakes and were unlucky to lose at Wembly.

 

Yet again the fans were not satisfied, the style of football being played and the ultimate sacrifice of Supermac being sold to ARSE nal for 350K in the August 0f 1976 brought about an uneasy feeling between player and manager, fans and manager, fans and the board and finally between manager and the board. The obvious outcome was that GL departed Tyneside and we were left with Richard Dinnis. TFD.

 

Apart from KK and SBR Gordon Lee is the only manager in the last 50 years to bring us within a top 6 finish, now that can't be bad. Each of these managers had style, class and oozed confidence and generally you believed in their ability to achieve. They all had success written across their CV. They were not bullies, they were strong managers that knew their stuff. They were tacticians and knew the style of play required for each game. Theywere eagre to promote team spirit that allowed the players to play as a team and the players wanted to be part of that team. Gordon Lees ideas were certainly challenged at the time and I for one was not totally happy, but the results were measured rather quickly. Gordon Lee was only at Newcastle for a couple of years but his record speaks volumes.

 

Please don't come back with two semi-finals just look at where we finished after a team demolishing exercise, don't compare Sourness to Lee, there can be no comparison, Sourness is shite, where did we finish last season, who have we sold since he arrived and take a hard look at who he has bought. Apart from two or maybe three players he has wasted most of the transfer spend and even worse let a number of players go on the cheap.

 

Gordon Lee and Sourness - don't even compare.

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Pretty much the answer I would have gave. But to add a few things :

 

Gordon Lee decided to sell MacDonald 1. For playing reasons, as Jackie says, he thought we were too much of a one man team, and saw the ability in others that if encouraged and allowed to blossom more would do so. Plus the injury record of MacDonald was such that the club knew he wouldn't finish his career so they took the money while it was on the table. For playing reasons, he was right. The team jumped from being 15th in the league for 3 seasons running, to 5th. This is the direct opposite to Souness, there is nothing similar about it, they were miles and miles and miles apart.

 

2. Lee then went on to achieve top 3 - 4 places for Everton for the next few years ie what is now Champions League places, beat their neighbours for the first time in years, and bought 3 England internationals for Everton, Colin Todd, Mike Pejic and Dave Thomas, in addition to Asa Hartford, a Scottish international. So much for him not liking stars. Can anyone explain why he didnt' buy these players for Newcastle ? Answer = the board wouldn't back him. Which is of course why he left. Simple. [People who think Shepherd doesn't back his managers could do with a reality check compared to this]

 

It is true the Lee eventually lost his way and the team slumped and he was replaced by Howard Kendall, in fact only half a season I think after 3 good ones, but a fact not mentioned too often is he overhauled the clubs youth policy, which eventually produced Neville Southall, Gary Stevens, Trevor Steven, ? Ratcliffe, Kevin Sheedy ie the bulk of the team which won the league, FA Cup and Cup Winners Cup under Howard Kendall.

 

3. To those who say they were glad Lee left Newcastle, his last game was against Man City in the FA Cup, and news had leaked that he was on his way. The 40,000 plus crowd were chanting "gordon we love you", in all ends of the ground. I know because I was there. So I'm afraid they are guilty of a selective memory loss, but we see the same thing now regarding current players and managers just the same.

I expect when fuckwit is out the door everyone will deny they ever supported him.

 

When we played Ipswich in a game that was abandoned due to snow in november/december time, we were 2nd in the league, and Bobby Robson was raving about the way the team was playing, the confidence, spirit and the fact they were passing, moving, playing with intelligence and everyone played their part in a team performance. It was all true, and Lee's team and the way this team played had a profound effect on me, we were going places, we were playing like a quality side does. It wasn't until Keegan came that we saw it again.

 

Souness or Lee ? Don't make me laugh. Gordon Lee brought Newcastle into the modern football world, they were still clinging to the 50's. He was ahead of his time.

Edited August 17, 2005 by LeazesMag

[sweetleftpeg 0]

That's an excellent post LM, you have to say.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Cheers lads, some top notch posts there, good to read about those days from someone who wasn't even born back then so top stuff.

 

It would appear the history books have painted Lee in a worse picture than they should do then which is a shame because that's where people like me who didn't experience those days, get a feel for those days from.

 

Interesting about Supermac's injury, didn't he retire not long after leaving Newcastle?

[Bearsden Mag 0]

Cheers lads, some top notch posts there, good to read about those days from someone who wasn't even born back then so top stuff.

 

It would appear the history books have painted Lee in a worse picture than they should do then which is a shame because that's where people like me who didn't experience those days, get a feel for those days from.

 

Interesting about Supermac's injury, didn't he retire not long after leaving Newcastle?

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In reply to the earlier comment about Lee's achievement of finishing 5th, it was Dinnis who finished 5th and got us into Europe on the last game of the season. Before anyone says that it was Lee's team, it could be argued that part of it was Joe Harvey's team.

[Phil K 0]

Please get out and save the club. The guy is a disaster no matter where he is. Rangers, Benfica etc.

I thought Gordon Lee was bad but he was a genius compared to Souness.

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I wouldn't go so far to liken Souness with Skeletor. He was a grade A bastard. I may agree with you about Souness out though. And take Shepherd with him.