England v Portugal

[Gemmill 46141]

Special mention for Carragher btw.  Brought on as a specialist penalty taker, and to be fair to him took a canny penalty........only he forgot to wait for the whistle.  His second one was shite. 

155362[/snapback]

 

Easy to say in hindsight but he fucked up by changing his mind, his second pen was very poor compared to the first, looked like panic to me.

155364[/snapback]

 

Aye, English players can't do the stutter-step penalty. The whole point is that you stutter to watch which way the keepers going, then go the other way. Ricardo just didn't move so Carragher shit himself.

[MattM4 0]

Aye, English players can't do the stutter-step penalty.  The whole point is that you stutter to watch which way the keepers going, then go the other way.  Ricardo just didn't move so Carragher shit himself.

[Tom_NUFC 0]

We had good enough players, but I'm afraid the problem laid with the manager.

I'm sorry, but the bloke was on £4m a year and with the players we had, we should have done better.

 

The first mistake was the one everyone's been going on about since the squad was announced, 4 strikers, when one striker was coming back from injury, another, we didn't know if he'd be back in time and if he was what state he'd be in, and anothet was a 17 year old who hadn't played in the Premiership and had only been seen on video by the manager. I don't know of anyone who was happy with that, and it's been proven to be correct, and then he doesn't even get a sniff at being played. I'm sorry but you don't do that. Had it been a Michael Owen in 98 type scenario, with him playing in the Premiership and showing his talent and scoring goals at that level, fair enough, you can make the case. But to pick a player who hasn't played at that level, who you haven't actually seen play, it is NOT what you do in a the f*cking World Cup Finals.

 

I'm not getting at Walcott, it's not his fault at all, and he may well be very talented, I've no reason to doubt it, but he is unproven and the world cup is not the place for 17 year old unproven players.

 

Jermain Defoe must be f*ckin sick, and rightfully so, he should have gone. And another fifth striker should have gone instead of an extra midfielder (Jenas). Darren Bent, someone like that, hell, I'd have taken Shola over Jenas or Walcott.

 

It was PROVEN to be the wrong decision. Owen gets injured. Does Eriksson use this to give Wlacott even a sniff? Of course not. He doesn't even use Peter Crouch for Gods sake. He sticks Rooney up by himself. As Alan Shearer and Ian Wright both said before the game today, strikers HATE playing as a lone striker, they simply don't get the chances.

 

I don't blame Wayne Rooney for getting sent off, he did not cost us. Eriksson cost us. Having f*cked up on the four strikers and then Owen getting injured, he should have stuck to 4-4-2 and played Rooney and Crouch up front.

We played a sh*t system. We played sh*t, and its unfair on the team because THE ABILITY OF THE PLAYER WAS/IS GOOD ENOUGH. Eriksson must take responsibility for this. So today, you had a loan striker, a 20 year, who we all know hasn't the coolest of heads up front on his own. Like Shearer and Wright said, lone strikers get frustrated, that combined with niggling from the Portuguese (and I'm not neccesarily getting at Portugal there as winding up/niggling happens, use it to your advantage if you can, and they did), and Rooney's temprement, led to him getting angry and something silly (although a Red Card seemed harsh. Yellow - maybe). Had Eriksson gone with Rooney and Crouch up front, it could have been different, Rooney wouldn't have got so wound up and frustrated because he would have had someone with him up front.

 

People are going on about Portugal cheating and diving etc. Unfortunately that's part of the game these days and Portugal are no worse than anyone else. It's naive not to expect that I'm afraid. Sad but true.

 

What I would query though is Carragher's penalty. The referee blows his whistle when he feels that both sides are ready. Carragher scored. Ricardo had plenty of time to get himself ready. The ref thought he was ready. To say you weren't ready when you know what's coming and you're given that amount of time to prepare yourself, and the ref believes both parties to be ready is wrong. For the penalty taker to have to retake it is purgatory.

 

I'm angry, not because I think we've been cheated ( I don't think we have particularly), but because we had the players and the tactics, but the decisions and tactics of a greedy man on £4m a year has let us down.

 

Postitives: England fans have more or less behaved themselves and changed a lot of opinons, we've gone out at the same stage as the likes of Brazil and Argentina and after Spain, Holland, Czech Republic etc, and also at least we get to a position where we can be disappointed that we haven't won it. I'd rather have that than a team that never even gives you a sniff of hope like Scotland or Wales. I suppose with them, there's the taking pleasure in the defeat aspect and the if you're sh!te you can't be disappointed factor, but give me the chance to hope and dream that we might, just might do something over that any day.

 

Losing's shit, and too many people when we lose go, oh well we did OK I suppose blah blah blah. It wasn't good enough as far as I'm concerned, but saying that, losing in the quarter finals is better than not qualifying at all.

[The Fish 10972]

I can't see the justification for the critisism of David Beckham, if it wasn't for him England would have been home before the postcards.

155350[/snapback]

 

 

I couldn't disagree more.

 

Why is it that as soon as David Beckham was moved off the wing (either off the pitch entirely or shifted inside), the team looks infinitely more adventurous.

 

I get that his passing and dead ball ability is good enough to get him into most teams, but with Gerrard, Lampard able to do those things plus tackle, run and shoot from open play.. I can't see what Beckham does to justify a place in the team any more.

 

You play the best TEAM, not neccesarily the best players, Beckham makes this England side less effective. Fact-alacka-ding-dong.

[Craig 6700]

Words cannot describe just how fucked off I am at the moment.

 

Its euro 04 all over again.

155288[/snapback]

 

Not forgetting Italia '90, Euro '96 & France '98 - one day, maybe one day we'll win a penalty shoot out...

 

Saying that though, I doubt there's ever been a more difficult keeper to score a penalty against than Ricardo - not one of those penalties he saved was 'poor' and it was only a stroke of luck which kept Carragher's out...

[Kid Dynamite 7185]

Regardless of the result today, Ive never noticed how punchable ronaldos face is! hopefully he will be hounded out of england alpay style!

155312[/snapback]

 

Morons like you will see to that tbh.

155315[/snapback]

 

I think you are in the minority here Sima. Do you fancy him or something, hes a little cheating shit bag, has been since he arrived in england and now england are out of the World Cup as a direct result of him hounding the ref for a booking.

 

You take devils advocate to the extreme tbh........moron

[Guest Sima]

England are out of the WC because of Ronaldo? Aye, ok then.

 

No, England are out of the WC because they had a clueless manager who took 2 half fit strikers to the World Cup and a 17 year old and that they are simply not good enough.

 

I forgot that England were absolutely dominating the game until Rooney got sent off. Kudos to making Ronaldo a scapegoat for your entire World Cup demise, when in truth it's because England were absolutely bereft of ideas in ways to score goals from open play.

[adios 717]

I think you are in the minority here Sima. Do you fancy him or something, hes a little cheating shit bag, has been since he arrived in england and now england are out of the World Cup as a direct result of him hounding the ref for a booking.

 

You take devils advocate to the extreme tbh........moron 

155397[/snapback]

 

I can't help liking him, actually. Maybe I do fancy him?

 

All he did, by the way, was say to the ref "Did you see what he did?" when an opponent had stomped on his team mates nuts. I probably would have just "stuck one on" Rooney, but I suppose that would just make me the better man.

[Noelie 103]

 

......- not one of those penalties he saved was 'poor' and it was only a stroke of luck which kept Carragher's out...

 

 

155389[/snapback]

 

Yer kidding of course, ......aren't ye?

All three of the missed penalties were 'poor' in my opinion and I'll bet I'm not alone in thinking that.

[Jimbo 175]

 

......- not one of those penalties he saved was 'poor' and it was only a stroke of luck which kept Carragher's out...

 

 

155389[/snapback]

 

Yer kidding of course, ......aren't ye?

All three of the missed penalties were 'poor' in my opinion and I'll bet I'm not alone in thinking that.

155428[/snapback]

 

 

I agree, Lampards was poor as was Gerrard's, Carragher's second penalty was poor compared to his first, but Ricardo was excellent and shouldn't be ignored.

[Noelie 103]

 

......- not one of those penalties he saved was 'poor' and it was only a stroke of luck which kept Carragher's out...

 

 

155389[/snapback]

 

Yer kidding of course, ......aren't ye?

All three of the missed penalties were 'poor' in my opinion and I'll bet I'm not alone in thinking that.

155428[/snapback]

 

 

I agree, Lampards was poor as was Gerrard's, Carragher's second penalty was poor compared to his first, but Ricardo was excellent and shouldn't be ignored.

155429[/snapback]

 

I think Carragher's second shot was poor because he went for the other side and I think Ricardo knew he would do that. If he had gone for the same side the second try I think he would have outfoxed Ricardo.

[Jimbo 175]

 

......- not one of those penalties he saved was 'poor' and it was only a stroke of luck which kept Carragher's out...

 

 

155389[/snapback]

 

Yer kidding of course, ......aren't ye?

All three of the missed penalties were 'poor' in my opinion and I'll bet I'm not alone in thinking that.

155428[/snapback]

 

 

I agree, Lampards was poor as was Gerrard's, Carragher's second penalty was poor compared to his first, but Ricardo was excellent and shouldn't be ignored.

155429[/snapback]

 

I think Carragher's second shot was poor because he went for the other side and I think Ricardo knew he would do that. If he had gone for the same side the second try I think he would have outfoxed Ricardo.

155435[/snapback]

 

 

absolutely, it had the look of panic, he changed his mind and paid the price.

[Kid Dynamite 7185]

I think you are in the minority here Sima. Do you fancy him or something, hes a little cheating shit bag, has been since he arrived in england and now england are out of the World Cup as a direct result of him hounding the ref for a booking.

 

You take devils advocate to the extreme tbh........moron 

155397[/snapback]

 

I can't help liking him, actually. Maybe I do fancy him?

 

All he did, by the way, was say to the ref "Did you see what he did?" when an opponent had stomped on his team mates nuts. I probably would have just "stuck one on" Rooney, but I suppose that would just make me the better man.

155424[/snapback]

 

All he did . . . . was do the same thing they always do! Hound the ref for a booking. He was straight in his face screaming at the ref. Its meant to be his team-mate! And if you look at the replays the ref wasnt even going to book him.

 

I think we were the better team up until that point and had rooney stayed on im confident we would have won in 90minutes.

[Kid Dynamite 7185]

England are out of the WC because of Ronaldo?  Aye, ok then.

 

No, England are out of the WC because they had a clueless manager who took 2 half fit strikers to the World Cup and a 17 year old and that they are simply not good enough.

I forgot that England were absolutely dominating the game until Rooney got sent off.  Kudos to making Ronaldo a scapegoat for your entire World Cup demise, when in truth it's because England were absolutely bereft of ideas in ways to score goals from open play.

155415[/snapback]

 

 

Bollocks. We got to the QF with those strikers. Even if wed had 6 strikers on the bench we were still playing with 10 men. The fact we lost on the day has nowt to do with who was on the bench, its to do with dirty portuguese tactics gaining them an unfair advantage.

 

 

This is going to fuck me off now that sven gets the blame for his squad selection. Yes it was shit, and maybe it would have cost us the semi or the final. but it didnt cost us the quarter final. The sending off did.

[adios 717]

All he did . . . . was do the same thing they always do! Hound the ref for a booking. He was straight in his face screaming at the ref. Its meant to be his team-mate! And if you look at the replays the ref wasnt even going to book him.

 

I think we were the better team up until that point and had rooney stayed on im confident we would have won in 90minutes.

155452[/snapback]

 

Maybe he was upset that a bloke that was supposed to be his team-mate had stamped on his compatriot and team-mate's bollocks? The ref may have been calming the situation before handing out a card, I'd recommend you watch the replays again if you think he was "in his face screaming", I have done, in HD (© Zathras ).

 

Despite what you may want to believe, there are 2 sides to this story. I'm not 100% sure of one or two of the incidents, but what if Rooney meant that stamp - where does that leave your argument?

[adios 717]

Bollocks.    We got to the QF with those strikers. Even if wed had 6 strikers on the bench we were still playing with 10 men. The fact we lost on the day has nowt to do with who was on the bench, its to do with dirty portuguese tactics gaining them an unfair advantage.

 

 

This is going to fuck me off now that sven gets the blame for his squad selection. Yes it was shit, and maybe it would have cost us the semi or the final. but it didnt cost us the quarter final. The sending off did.

155453[/snapback]

 

Come on, man. You got to the QFs with the easiest run imaginable. In spite of Erikkson, and you were shit in spite of a potentially great squad. He wouldn't play Walcott and was reluctant to play Crouch - who was the only fit target man in your squad! What the fuck was Rooney doing in that position? If he's that great a player why not slap him in goal.

 

And if you can't see that Eriksson was responsible for that sending off, I don't know...

[Kid Dynamite 7185]

''And if you can't see that Eriksson was responsible for that sending off''

 

 

I dont know either mate. . . . ..

[adios 717]

''And if you can't see that Eriksson was responsible for that sending off''

 

 

I dont know either mate. . . . ..

155458[/snapback]

 

Rooney was sent off because he was frustrated, I don't blame him, I was shouting at the telly. He was frustrated because of the impossible position his manager placed him in.

[Asprilla 96]

Penalty shoot outs.

Wind ups.

Diving.

 

 

All part of the modern game and have been for at least a decade....why do we always act surprised when issues like this get us knocked out?

 

Are we incapable of a bit of guile and/or anger management?

[The Fish 10972]

it's a fair point AF, but wasn't the remit of the FIFA appointed referees to clamp down on wind-ups and diving.

 

I did see far more bookings for diving (and far more false penalty claims waved away) but to be honest, it's the card-waving by the players and the blatant calls for a referee to take action against a player whichthrooughly riles me.

 

I know it's "Part of the game" but I think that simply accepting it is totally out of the question. I hope that in the Premier League and the European games we'll see a huge clamp down on this activity. If the challenge deserves a card then a card should be received, but trying to goad the referee into booking a player is abhorrent

[Asprilla 96]

it's a fair point AF, but wasn't the remit of the FIFA appointed referees to clamp down on wind-ups and diving.

 

I did see far more bookings for diving (and far more false penalty claims waved away) but to be honest, it's the card-waving by the players and the blatant calls for a referee to take action against a player whichthrooughly riles me.

 

I know it's "Part of the game" but I think that simply accepting it is totally out of the question. I hope that in the Premier League and the European games we'll see a huge clamp down on this activity. If the challenge deserves a card then a card should be received, but trying to goad the referee into booking a player is abhorrent

155481[/snapback]

For sure I'd like to see it dealt with properly....Henry should have been banned for the next game for feigning his facial assault.

 

I'm just saying that we beat our chests every couple of years...drag up a few old wars and expect to win the trophy....it's embarassing

[Guest Sima]

Bollocks.    We got to the QF with those strikers. Even if wed had 6 strikers on the bench we were still playing with 10 men. The fact we lost on the day has nowt to do with who was on the bench, its to do with dirty portuguese tactics gaining them an unfair advantage.

 

 

This is going to fuck me off now that sven gets the blame for his squad selection. Yes it was shit, and maybe it would have cost us the semi or the final. but it didnt cost us the quarter final. The sending off did.

155453[/snapback]

 

That's it, keep blaming everyone else if it makes you feel better. After all, it's never England's fault is it? It's either Ronaldinho's fluke, Urs Meier and now Ronaldo. Like DotBum says all of the teams you played were utter shit and as soon as you come up against someone half decent (missing arguably their best player) you come a cropper and blame someone else for your ineptitude.

 

Eagerly anticipating the scapegoat in 2 years time tbh.

Edited July 2, 2006 by Sima

[DanTheMan 0]

There does seem to be an English complex of blaming absolutely everyone except the performance of the team whenever England go out.

[MattM4 0]

There does seem to be an English complex of blaming absolutely everyone except the performance of the team whenever England go out.

155509[/snapback]

 

or a big tendancy from fans of other nations to see that.

Sven is getting a lot of stick for the performances, so is Beckham so is Lampard. Doesn't stop the fact that Cristine is a little cunt.

[Papa Lazaru 0]

There does seem to be an English complex of blaming absolutely everyone except the performance of the team whenever England go out.

155509[/snapback]

 

Of course no other countries would ever do that would they, could only be the English

 

No whinging from the italians when korea knocked them out or a korean player being sacked by his italian club side.

 

The spanish didn't complain about Henry getting the freekick that knocked them out.

 

USA fans and aussie fans/teams never mentioned referees at all after their exits.

 

I could go on, but the fact is all coubntries complain when they're knocked out, sometimes its their own fault, sometimes they genuinely have been shafted by a ref/linesman or opposition player/players, thats football. People who always say it's your own fault and you can never blame anyone else are just as stupid and naive as those who alwasy blame somebody else for their exit.

 

And anyway without England to bang on about how empty, dull and pointless would somebody like Sima's life be, with No England he'd probably cease to exist.

 

As for this England exit its obvious where the blame lies.

 

Rooney for the sending off as with 11 we may have won the match (though we'll never know)

Sven for piss poor managemtn, tactics, squad selection, lack of motivation and anything else you'd care to name

And some of the players who underperformed, eg. Lampard picked the worst time possible to have the worst run of form of his career!

 

And its more annoying because the 4 semi finalists remaining are all mediocre at best and the world cup was there for the taking as any one of them is beatable.

Edited July 2, 2006 by Papa Lazaru