Woodgate27 0 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Now I've seen the Rooney incident (we don't have TV here in Australia, we depend on newsreel) it was quite obviously delibrate. Though I believe he was frustrated because of... Sven. I said earlier in this thread, during the match, that Rooney by himself up front is about us useful as a chocolate teapot, or a eunuch in a brothel. It's not his natural position, he may be good but he's better at feeding a striker he is playing just behind, and picking off lay offs from said striker. Which is why Crouch should have started ahead of Lampard. Had this happened you would have won IMO. Portugal were ripe for the picking and their only threat came from the one trick pony, and he was shite. (And yes, we do have TV here. It's black and white and fairly fuzzy, but does the job) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10978 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I wouldn't say that the Germans were mediocre mate. Along with Argentina and Spain, they've played the best football. I'm really surprised to see these semi finalists, I certainly wouldn't have had any of them if I was asked at the beginning of the tournament, even at the end of the group stage I would have put money on Spain, Argentina, Brazil and us. [the only reason I say England is because a ) I'm biased and b ) I had hoped we'd have improved.] I really hope the Germans win because they've entertained me the most (fromt he four teams left) they haven't cheated their way through the finals like the others. No I'm not saying England were Robbed, we didn't deserve to be in the 1/4 finals of the World Cup based on the performances, but luckily for us we played against poor sides. I'm saying that teams like Italy, Portgual and, to a lesser extent, France are prone to feign injury, dive, call for cards and do all that it takes to win, even if that means transgressing the rules. I'm not blaming the ref's in Englands games, I'm blaming FIFA for failing to crack down on this corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46199 Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 The annoying thing about the Rooney sending off is that if he'd been Portuguese, he'd have been on the deck long before it got to the moment where he stamped on Carvalho's plums, and he'd have got the foul given his way. It was his honesty that kept him on his feet and trying to battle and win the ball off the two of them. And before anyone starts - yes, I know stamping on the bloke's knackers (probably) intentionally was far from the decent thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catmag 337 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Ah well. Time to put the normal avatar back up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Words cannot describe just how fucked off I am at the moment. Its euro 04 all over again. 155288[/snapback] Not forgetting Italia '90, Euro '96 & France '98 - one day, maybe one day we'll win a penalty shoot out... 155389[/snapback] We won one in Euro '96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6700 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 The annoying thing about the Rooney sending off is that if he'd been Portuguese, he'd have been on the deck long before it got to the moment where he stamped on Carvalho's plums, and he'd have got the foul given his way. It was his honesty that kept him on his feet and trying to battle and win the ball off the two of them. And before anyone starts - yes, I know stamping on the bloke's knackers (probably) intentionally was far from the decent thing to do. 155561[/snapback] You know, the more I see this incident, the more I think it's the 'shove' on Ronaldo that seals Rooney's fate. Up until that point, the referee is stood over Carvalho with his arm outstretched indicating a free kick to Portugal - he doesn't appear to be interested in disciplining Rooney at all at that point. Then Rooney grabs and shoves Ronaldo and the whistle goes straight to his mouth and he's summoning Rooney over to administer the red card. Didn't Sven say something in the press conference about the referee telling him that he saw Rooney hit someone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM4 0 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 it did appear that way at the time I must say. I wouldnt even call it a shove though. If the ref sent him off for that alone, we have reached a new level of softness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 The annoying thing about the Rooney sending off is that if he'd been Portuguese, he'd have been on the deck long before it got to the moment where he stamped on Carvalho's plums, and he'd have got the foul given his way. It was his honesty that kept him on his feet and trying to battle and win the ball off the two of them. And before anyone starts - yes, I know stamping on the bloke's knackers (probably) intentionally was far from the decent thing to do. 155561[/snapback] You know, the more I see this incident, the more I think it's the 'shove' on Ronaldo that seals Rooney's fate. Up until that point, the referee is stood over Carvalho with his arm outstretched indicating a free kick to Portugal - he doesn't appear to be interested in disciplining Rooney at all at that point. Then Rooney grabs and shoves Ronaldo and the whistle goes straight to his mouth and he's summoning Rooney over to administer the red card. Didn't Sven say something in the press conference about the referee telling him that he saw Rooney hit someone? 155595[/snapback] Thats my take on it too, the ref only responds after the push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInspiration 1 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Rooney looked back and planted his foot right on his genitals. It didn't look like his felt were caught so much that he had no control over them. The fact nothing's been said from him pretty much shows it was deliberate. Thanks Wayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10978 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Rooney looked back and planted his foot right on his genitals. It didn't look like his felt were caught so much that he had no control over them. The fact nothing's been said from him pretty much shows it was deliberate. Thanks Wayne. 155614[/snapback] I hope you're not apportioning blame on Rooney for our Exit from the World cup? As Craig and Jimbo have said, the more you watch it the more it becomes apparent that no cards were reached for despite their being plenty of time, up until the pixie starts mouthing off and basically calling for Rooney to be carded, add to that the sledging before kick off and the wink to the bench it's clear that Ronaldo was trying to get Rooney sent off. Rooney did kick out and that's inexcusable, but the Argentinian ref was not going for the card until Rooney pushed Ronaldo. end of the day the blame lies at Svens door, not Rooney's. If we'd played with a better system Rooney wouldn't have been so isolated, and it follows that he wouldn't have become so frustrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15742 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 end of the day the blame lies at Svens door, not Rooney's. 155623[/snapback] evil Swedish overlord in "stamping petulant Scouse mong's foot by remote-control" shocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 It doesn't really matter if he was sent off for the shove of the stamp. He deserved to be sent off for the deliberate stamp. He then stupidly made things worse with the shove. Both incidents were right in front of the ref. Of course a manager with half a brain might have noticed that Rooney was struggling and (given his temperament) was likely to be frustrated and to blow a fuse. He could have put another striker on but that would have involved making a difficult decision (i.e. withdrawing Beckham or Lampard) which is something Sven seemed incapable/unwilling to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInspiration 1 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Rooney looked back and planted his foot right on his genitals. It didn't look like his felt were caught so much that he had no control over them. The fact nothing's been said from him pretty much shows it was deliberate. Thanks Wayne. 155614[/snapback] I hope you're not apportioning blame on Rooney for our Exit from the World cup? 155623[/snapback] Rooney getting sent off was one of quite a few factors contributing to our exit - I feel if Crouch came on and played alongisde him, we'd still be in the competition. I'm slightly confused at how Beckham got so much stick for ages after 1998, but Rooney gets very little said about him. Whether the whinging little girl had any affect on the card being brandished or not, stamping on somebody's genitals deliberately is a red card offence, and I am pretty sure that's what he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15742 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I'm slightly confused at how Beckham got so much stick for ages after 1998, but Rooney gets very little said about him. Whether the whinging little girl had any affect on the card being brandished or not, stamping on somebody's genitals deliberately is a red card offence, and I am pretty sure that's what he did. 155713[/snapback] Lowest Common Denominator Scapegoating, I guess - though Simeone never got a tabloid dartboard dedicated to him in 1998. Bet he's gutted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46199 Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 As stupid as Rooney was to get sent off, he'll know it was his fault and it'll sink in when he's sitting out the first few Euro qualifiers, and I think he'll learn from it. I'd rather if a scapegoat is required that it's that little turd Ronaldo and not Rooney - the treatment Beckham received after the 1998 World Cup was appalling and I wouldn't want to see Rooney go through the same. Ronaldo on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I blame Svennis tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4K4V3LI 7 0 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 had Sven used the right players, right formation, Correct positions for players (which wud be important ofcourse) and not fcuked around trying new things, then the game wud not have needed to go to penalties we shud have pissed over the potugese... On paper we prob got 1 of the best teams if not THE BEST...Sven was not getting the best out of the players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 4166 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 had Sven used the right players, right formation, Correct positions for players (which wud be important ofcourse) and not fcuked around trying new things, then the game wud not have needed to go to penalties we shud have pissed over the potugese... On paper we prob got 1 of the best teams if not THE BEST...Sven was not getting the best out of the players... 155746[/snapback] And still, inspite of the compelling evidence to the contrary, you still going beleiving the hype about how good our players are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 had Sven used the right players, right formation, Correct positions for players (which wud be important ofcourse) and not fcuked around trying new things, then the game wud not have needed to go to penalties we shud have pissed over the potugese... On paper we prob got 1 of the best teams if not THE BEST...Sven was not getting the best out of the players... 155746[/snapback] And still, inspite of the compelling evidence to the contrary, you still going beleiving the hype about how good our players are. 155765[/snapback] We have got some good players though, especially Gerrard and Rooney as well as the likes of Ashley Cole, Terry and Joe Cole. Sven should have utilised them better. I'm not one of these people who thinks England are fantastic and should win the WC or Euros but, when you look at the teams in the last four, it's frustrating because the teams left in are beatable. Germany aren't technically in the same class as the Argentinians but they could win it and they've played much more attractive football than England have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 4166 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 had Sven used the right players, right formation, Correct positions for players (which wud be important ofcourse) and not fcuked around trying new things, then the game wud not have needed to go to penalties we shud have pissed over the potugese... On paper we prob got 1 of the best teams if not THE BEST...Sven was not getting the best out of the players... 155746[/snapback] And still, inspite of the compelling evidence to the contrary, you still going beleiving the hype about how good our players are. 155765[/snapback] We have got some good players though, especially Gerrard and Rooney as well as the likes of Ashley Cole, Terry and Joe Cole. Sven should have utilised them better. I'm not one of these people who thinks England are fantastic and should win the WC or Euros but, when you look at the teams in the last four, it's frustrating because the teams left in are beatable. Germany aren't technically in the same class as the Argentinians but they could win it and they've played much more attractive football than England have. 155766[/snapback] Germany have the technical part of taking a penalty fairly well sorted. (including Owen Hargreaves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 4166 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I agree that we have some good players btw. Its a shame that none of them stepped up and acheived greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I agree that we have some good players btw. Its a shame that none of them stepped up and acheived greatness. 155773[/snapback] That's not always completely down to the manager, but I think in this case, it is. How could they be expected to perform when the system was totally wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 had Sven used the right players, right formation, Correct positions for players (which wud be important ofcourse) and not fcuked around trying new things, then the game wud not have needed to go to penalties we shud have pissed over the potugese... On paper we prob got 1 of the best teams if not THE BEST...Sven was not getting the best out of the players... 155746[/snapback] And still, inspite of the compelling evidence to the contrary, you still going beleiving the hype about how good our players are. 155765[/snapback] We have got some good players though, especially Gerrard and Rooney as well as the likes of Ashley Cole, Terry and Joe Cole. Sven should have utilised them better. I'm not one of these people who thinks England are fantastic and should win the WC or Euros but, when you look at the teams in the last four, it's frustrating because the teams left in are beatable. Germany aren't technically in the same class as the Argentinians but they could win it and they've played much more attractive football than England have. 155766[/snapback] Germany have the technical part of taking a penalty fairly well sorted. (including Owen Hargreaves) 155769[/snapback] That's mental strength more than technique imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46199 Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 had Sven used the right players, right formation, Correct positions for players (which wud be important ofcourse) and not fcuked around trying new things, then the game wud not have needed to go to penalties we shud have pissed over the potugese... On paper we prob got 1 of the best teams if not THE BEST...Sven was not getting the best out of the players... 155746[/snapback] And still, inspite of the compelling evidence to the contrary, you still going beleiving the hype about how good our players are. 155765[/snapback] We have got some good players though, especially Gerrard and Rooney as well as the likes of Ashley Cole, Terry and Joe Cole. Sven should have utilised them better. I'm not one of these people who thinks England are fantastic and should win the WC or Euros but, when you look at the teams in the last four, it's frustrating because the teams left in are beatable. Germany aren't technically in the same class as the Argentinians but they could win it and they've played much more attractive football than England have. 155766[/snapback] Germany have the technical part of taking a penalty fairly well sorted. (including Owen Hargreaves) 155769[/snapback] That's mental strength more than technique imo. 155803[/snapback] Read an article about Hargreaves today and it was on about how he went to Munich by himself at 16, had to learn the language from scratch to even be able to talk to anyone, and has basically looked after himself on that basis from then on. I can't think of many English Premiership players who could do that, which in a roundabout way backs up your mental strength argument, although it's probably a different kind of mental strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15742 Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 There's some decent arguments being made on both/all sides here: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/worldcup06/200...me_ronaldo.html Need to get some work done today, though, so no chance of reading it all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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