Guest alex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) Being likened to the worst atrocity committed by the US in Vietnam. There seems little doubt these events took place. The youngest victim was two years old. Fucking disgusting. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5032214.stm Edited May 31, 2006 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 The battle for hearts and minds. What a joke. The US army cannot be a viable peace-keeping force in Iraq now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=6093 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 America kills towel heads, it'll keep the bible belt happy. Come on then US Christian Fundamentalists, justify this one you judgemental racist bastids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=6093 143091[/snapback] Sorry, didn't see that topic. Mine's already more popular anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=6093 143091[/snapback] Just thought I'd add that I thought GF's response there was particularly cretinous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=6093 143091[/snapback] Sorry, didn't see that topic. Mine's already more popular anyway 143094[/snapback] Cliquealicious tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=6093 143091[/snapback] Just thought I'd add that I thought GF's response there was particularly cretinous. 143096[/snapback] Basically advocating double standards, let's let these fellas off while were at it. They were probably having a bad day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=6093 143091[/snapback] Just thought I'd add that I thought GF's response there was particularly cretinous. 143096[/snapback] Basically advocating double standards, let's let these fellas off while were at it. They were probably having a bad day 143098[/snapback] It is double standards and blatent racism to an extent. Clearly the average American does not think the life of an Iraqi and an American are equal, and while that prejudice exists, there can be no peace. Mind, I'm obviously a sandalista. Edited May 31, 2006 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 They were probably having a bad day 143098[/snapback] "Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 They were probably having a bad day 143098[/snapback] "Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town." 143105[/snapback] So they killed a two year old in cold blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 They were probably having a bad day 143098[/snapback] "Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town." 143105[/snapback] So they killed a two year old in cold blood. 143118[/snapback] As I said in the other thread, I don't condone it. It's horrific. But I wouldn't be flippant about the pressure they're under until I'd gone through it without cracking. It does always seem to be the gung-ho Americans that get themselves in this kind of mess, but I think it says more about the commanding officers than the soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 The flippancy of the remark was borne out of my outrage at what has happened and the apparent justification for it/advocacy of double standards from GF rather than thinking it's not difficult over there for the armed forces. Of course they're under enormous pressure and they have an awful job to do. Also, a roadside bomb had just killed one of their colleagues. Nothing however comes close to justifying what they did and I feel they must take the ultimate responsibility rather than their commanding officers. On a wider note, the politicians who put the troops into this impossible situation are the ones who really should take the blame for what is happening over there in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 I wouldn't argue with that. It just concerned me that the BBC article you linked to doesn't mention any commanding officers. They are the ones who cultivate the barbaric approach ("Killing in the name" should not be allowed to get pumped through a troops headphones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 (edited) I wouldn't argue with that. It just concerned me that the BBC article you linked to doesn't mention any commanding officers. They are the ones who cultivate the barbaric approach ("Killing in the name" should not be allowed to get pumped through a troops headphones). 143134[/snapback] Aye fair point like, I suppose it's partly the culture that's to blame. It's also worth mentioning that part of the reason this came out is that some of the US Marines involved in the 'clean up' operation were terribly traumatised by what they saw. They are probably more disgusted by what happened than anyone. Ironically, the perpetrators of this have made their (soon to be ex-) colleagues jobs even harder than they were before. Edited May 31, 2006 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 They were probably having a bad day 143098[/snapback] "Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town." 143105[/snapback] So they killed a two year old in cold blood. 143118[/snapback] Well the way I read that argument is to specifically say that it was not 'cold blood.' Not agreeing or disagreeing with either side, just pointing out what the argument is saying. Clearly the average American does not think the life of an Iraqi and an American are equal, and while that prejudice exists, there can be no peace. And Britons do not think that the life of an Indian and an Englishman or an Iraqi and an Englishman are equal. And a Russian doesn't think the life of a Russian and a Mongol's lives are equal--you can say that about anyone. I pretty welll agree with you guys, but your arguments are a load of shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 They were probably having a bad day 143098[/snapback] "Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town." 143105[/snapback] So they killed a two year old in cold blood. 143118[/snapback] Well the way I read that argument is to specifically say that it was not 'cold blood.' Not agreeing or disagreeing with either side, just pointing out what the argument is saying. Clearly the average American does not think the life of an Iraqi and an American are equal, and while that prejudice exists, there can be no peace. And Britons do not think that the life of an Indian and an Englishman or an Iraqi and an Englishman are equal. And a Russian doesn't think the life of a Russian and a Mongol's lives are equal--you can say that about anyone. I pretty welll agree with you guys, but your arguments are a load of shite. 143234[/snapback] Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21643 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 They were probably having a bad day 143098[/snapback] "Lawyers who have talked to the Marines emphasise the extreme pressure that they were facing that day. The insurgents had mounted a wave of attacks, and the town was one of the most dangerous in Iraq for US troops. Three months earlier insurgents had ambushed and killed six Marine snipers, then released a video showing the mutilated body of a dead servicemen. Later 14 Marines were killed by a bomb near the town." 143105[/snapback] So they killed a two year old in cold blood. 143118[/snapback] Well the way I read that argument is to specifically say that it was not 'cold blood.' Not agreeing or disagreeing with either side, just pointing out what the argument is saying. Clearly the average American does not think the life of an Iraqi and an American are equal, and while that prejudice exists, there can be no peace. And Britons do not think that the life of an Indian and an Englishman or an Iraqi and an Englishman are equal. And a Russian doesn't think the life of a Russian and a Mongol's lives are equal--you can say that about anyone. I pretty welll agree with you guys, but your arguments are a load of shite. 143234[/snapback] Fair point Zathras, but I certainly get the feeling there is more prejudice and ignorance shown to the problem in Iraq than there is in Europe. And American soldiers have a well known reputation of being trigger happy. Of course it's wrong to generalise about these things I guess but the whole situation is pissing me off. Not only is the massacre described abhorrent for humanitarian reasons, it is also completely counterproductive to the peace efforts. This is what I fear some Americans (and Brits) fail to comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others. 143241[/snapback] Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Fair point Zathras, but I certainly get the feeling there is more prejudice and ignorance shown to the problem in Iraq than there is in Europe. And American soldiers have a well known reputation of being trigger happy. Of course it's wrong to generalise about these things I guess but the whole situation is pissing me off. Not only is the massacre described abhorrent for humanitarian reasons, it is also completely counterproductive to the peace efforts. This is what I fear some Americans (and Brits) fail to comprehend. 143248[/snapback] I'd say most Americans are well aware of how much of an impact this sort of thing has. The approval ratings of the current administration are lower than they've ever been, largely due to this and similar scandals. The fact that people are continuously falling on their swords to spare the higher-ups is not lost on the average American. The fact that the White House can't even hold on to a press secretary tends to speak volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others. 143241[/snapback] Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. 143250[/snapback] As I suspected, nothing to contribute. If you're saying I don't give my point of view on here Zath, I think you're talking shite tbh. I can remember when you were a good poster. Sadly that was quite a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Can anyone be surprised when an occupying force, in a country where the occupied are a different skin colour, religion and culture receive no empathy from the military? Most infantry are not picked on their social or empathic skills, they are there to kill, oppress or protect the interests of their political masters. It will justified in light of the july bombings here and the 9/11 attack in the US. A few token measures will be taken to preserve the appearance of fairness by the US but the only real change in policy will probably be stricter controls on the media so that people don't find out about what else they have done. It's horrific but utterly predicatable as will be the response of blood thirsty bigots who say that these things can be 'justifiable' when committed by the west on anybody else but are acts of terrorism and extreme evil when committed by opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others. 143241[/snapback] Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. 143250[/snapback] As I suspected, nothing to contribute. If you're saying I don't give my point of view on here Zath, I think you're talking shite tbh. I can remember when you were a good poster. Sadly that was quite a long time ago. 143257[/snapback] I said that I'd agreed with you guys, just that the arguments put forward (id est that Americans value American lives more and that it was a cold blooded reaction) were crap. Renton's argument in his last post is pretty much where I stand--it's pointless, counterproductive and most importantly, completely and totally wrong. As for not being a 'good poster' any more, it seems that the major requirement for that is constantly being one here and frankly I no longer have the time to just sit and post all day. Student days are over; now I work for the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Ok then it wasn't in 'cold blood' perhaps. I'd love to hear your arguments although I expect you to stick to what you're good at and just pour scorn on those of others. 143241[/snapback] Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. 143250[/snapback] As I suspected, nothing to contribute. If you're saying I don't give my point of view on here Zath, I think you're talking shite tbh. I can remember when you were a good poster. Sadly that was quite a long time ago. 143257[/snapback] I said that I'd agreed with you guys, just that the arguments put forward (id est that Americans value American lives more and that it was a cold blooded reaction) were crap. Renton's argument in his last post is pretty much where I stand--it's pointless, counterproductive and most importantly, completely and totally wrong. As for not being a 'good poster' any more, it seems that the major requirement for that is constantly being one here and frankly I no longer have the time to just sit and post all day. Student days are over; now I work for the government. 143266[/snapback] Scared your being monitored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Can anyone be surprised when an occupying force, in a country where the occupied are a different skin colour, religion and culture receive no empathy from the military?Most infantry are not picked on their social or empathic skills, they are there to kill, oppress or protect the interests of their political masters. It will justified in light of the july bombings here and the 9/11 attack in the US. A few token measures will be taken to preserve the appearance of fairness by the US but the only real change in policy will probably be stricter controls on the media so that people don't find out about what else they have done. It's horrific but utterly predicatable as will be the response of blood thirsty bigots who say that these things can be 'justifiable' when committed by the west on anybody else but are acts of terrorism and extreme evil when committed by opposition. 143264[/snapback] The strict media controls that the US implemented in Gulf War I resulted in 'bad' media coverage. That's why they came up with that 'imbed' program; by placing the journalists on the front line with the soldiers, they got to feel it first hand, and, in theory, connect more with the soldiers themselves. Media control is a bit late; public opinion has moved too far against the war for that to be an effective measure; it would result in bad press about the controls. The further issue is that this was a group of Marines, who are allegedly more highly trained than the average infantry unit. They're supposed to display a higher level of discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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