Guest alex Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Dalglish was sacked the week he went out and spent a few million on Nobby Solano iirc. GREAT timing. 136668[/snapback] Actually yri. I'm sure Solano played in the '98 final and a few games before. 136672[/snapback] Solano didn't play in the 98 cup final, he was signed the summer after I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22008 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Dalglish was sacked the week he went out and spent a few million on Nobby Solano iirc. GREAT timing. 136668[/snapback] Actually yri. I'm sure Solano played in the '98 final and a few games before. 136672[/snapback] Solano didn't play in the 98 cup final, he was signed the summer after I think. 136676[/snapback] Must be thinking of '99 then? Oh well serves me right for being a pedant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Dalglish was sacked the week he went out and spent a few million on Nobby Solano iirc. GREAT timing. 136668[/snapback] Actually yri. I'm sure Solano played in the '98 final and a few games before. 136672[/snapback] Solano didn't play in the 98 cup final, he was signed the summer after I think. 136676[/snapback] Must be thinking of '99 then? Oh well serves me right for being a pedant. 136678[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Dalglish was sacked the week he went out and spent a few million on Nobby Solano iirc. GREAT timing. 136668[/snapback] Actually yri. I'm sure Solano played in the '98 final and a few games before. 136672[/snapback] Solano didn't play in the 98 cup final, he was signed the summer after I think. 136676[/snapback] Must be thinking of '99 then? Oh well serves me right for being a pedant. 136678[/snapback] IIRC, Solano didn't play for the first team under Daglish, only the reserves. Might be wrong though. I think SLP is right about the timing. Nobby played in 1999 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 IIRC, Solano didn't play for the first team under Daglish, only the reserves. Might be wrong though. I think SLP is right about the timing. Nobby played in 1999 though. 136681[/snapback] The season was underway when Nobby arrived, remember this was before the days of the transfer deadline. Dalglish bought him, he played for the reserves midweek, then I'm sure he was sacked at the weekend. Something like that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 IIRC, Solano didn't play for the first team under Daglish, only the reserves. Might be wrong though. I think SLP is right about the timing. Nobby played in 1999 though. 136681[/snapback] The season was underway when Nobby arrived, remember this was before the days of the transfer deadline. Dalglish bought him, he played for the reserves midweek, then I'm sure he was sacked at the weekend. Something like that anyway. 136693[/snapback] Aye, that's roughly how I remember it. We drew 0-0 with Charlton and did he get the sack after that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Good luck Glen 136575[/snapback] Because you'll fucking well need it 136576[/snapback] Miserable bastard 136598[/snapback] Oh aye Obviously I wish him all the best, but the more I think about it, the more I think he's a cheap, lazy, uninspired, short-term appointment. I'll be delighted if he proves me wrong. 136616[/snapback] If this is so, then its down to the reckless excesses and poor judgement of the last manager in recommending his sales and buys to the board 136642[/snapback] If this is so, it's at least partly down to Shepherd, on both counts. 136643[/snapback] Hindsight. Nobody always goes forwards. There are clubs that have done better than us that have gone further backwards when they have changed their boards or managers, or both. 136646[/snapback] I'm not saying they do always go forward, you're employing hindsight to blame Souness though, is there some reason why I can't do the same to (quite rightly) apportion at least some of the blame to Shepherd? 136656[/snapback] I'm not using hindsight to blame Souness. I despised him and thought he was a shit manager when he was at Rangers and I was working in Jockland. You can blame Shepherd if you like, but I didn't see you blaming him when we won in Rotterdam. And if Roeder does well, ie gets into europe/wins a cup/stablises the club during a time of financial accountability then I look forward to the comments you will make, which I'll be watching with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22008 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Good luck Glen 136575[/snapback] Because you'll fucking well need it 136576[/snapback] Miserable bastard 136598[/snapback] Oh aye Obviously I wish him all the best, but the more I think about it, the more I think he's a cheap, lazy, uninspired, short-term appointment. I'll be delighted if he proves me wrong. 136616[/snapback] If this is so, then its down to the reckless excesses and poor judgement of the last manager in recommending his sales and buys to the board 136642[/snapback] If this is so, it's at least partly down to Shepherd, on both counts. 136643[/snapback] Hindsight. Nobody always goes forwards. There are clubs that have done better than us that have gone further backwards when they have changed their boards or managers, or both. 136646[/snapback] I'm not saying they do always go forward, you're employing hindsight to blame Souness though, is there some reason why I can't do the same to (quite rightly) apportion at least some of the blame to Shepherd? 136656[/snapback] I'm not using hindsight to blame Souness. I despised him and thought he was a shit manager when he was at Rangers and I was working in Jockland. You can blame Shepherd if you like, but I didn't see you blaming him when we won in Rotterdam. And if Roeder does well, ie gets into europe/wins a cup/stablises the club during a time of financial accountability then I look forward to the comments you will make, which I'll be watching with interest. 136695[/snapback] What if he does badly? What then for Shepherd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) So, employing Souness was a mistake which was easily avoidable then? At least that's how I saw it. Who's to blame though, I'll go for Shepherd. Don't see how us getting to the latter stages on the Champions League exonerates him of a mistake he made afterwards. Re: Roeder, I've already said I hope he proves me wrong. Edited May 16, 2006 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'm not uncomfortable with the choice. I don't give too much about what happened at his previous jobs because I can't see how this is of any relevance for what might happen at Newcastle. As far as I can see Roeder definitely has some coaching skills and knows how to address obvious problems. So Newcastle might the perfect job if he has learnt from previous failures. That is in contrast to the tosser before who because of his lack in character and managing skills had written disaster all over him. The problem I have his with the appointment his because it his so uninspiring. It doesn't look progressive at all. I hoped a new man (like Hiddink or that kind) would have brough in a new type of more professional football culture with new coaching methods, better match preparations etc. I really hoped Newcastle were taking their time to come up with a though out long term plan how to close the gap to other teams who look well ahead in this department. We ended up with a decent bloke as manager backed up by local chaps as his staff. You don't need more than two brain cells to come up with this idea... 136670[/snapback] Pretty much sums up how I feel. I don't think he will be a terrible manager (and of course I hope he turn out to be superb) but I just think we are continuing with the same provincial thinking that has got us no where for years. I think we will be pretty stable in the top half of the league and will challenge for wafa cup places but I really don't see us doing any better. Perhaps I am hoping for too much but I don't see what's wrong with aiming for the top. His comments about not getting our transfers done before the season starts are worrying mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9906 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'm not using hindsight to blame Souness. I despised him and thought he was a shit manager when he was at Rangers and I was working in Jockland. You can blame Shepherd if you like, but I didn't see you blaming him when we won in Rotterdam. And if Roeder does well, ie gets into europe/wins a cup/stablises the club during a time of financial accountability then I look forward to the comments you will make, which I'll be watching with interest. 136695[/snapback] Ok, for that scenario I already say that in that case Shepherd will have been (grammar?) very lucky. Shepherd will deserve praise for being brave enough for just sticking to an easy option instead of coming up with a ingenious masterplan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 (edited) I simply don't agree. Dalglish particularly, and Gullit and Bobby Robson were all big name and successful managers, that were given ALL the backing to be successful. If they didn't succeed to expectation or hopes, it is their fault and no one elses, they carry the can for performance on the field of the players that THEY choose to keep at the club, or want to bring into the club. 136662[/snapback] Daglish wasn't given enough time to be successful though, wouldn't you agree? He was sacked far too early and, therefore, wasn't given the necessary backing imo. EDIT: Totally agree with SLP's and Zico's sentiments too. 136665[/snapback] Possibly. The singing of "attack attack attack" was one of the worst things ever sang at a Cup Final by any fans anywhere, have you forgotten ? We hoped in the summer he [Dalglish] would take heed but when he didn't, he had to go. I am not one who just wants to be entertained by showboaters like Arsprilla, never have been, and never will be. The contrast with the Keegan years was what brought it on. Those who do think they put entertainment before winning....well if we had won tht day and bored the arse off the whole world would anybody have gave a damn ? It would also, obviously, have prolonged Dalglish managership, boring or not. And of course the appointment of Gullit was made because he was the opposite of Dalglish, but he was still a trophy winner and we all thought or at least hoped he could do the same for us. Neither of these managers had the heart for the club, and that is why they didn't succeed and were sacked when it became obvious. If I was forced to say one of them could have been given longer it would have been Dalglish. By "backing", I meant financial backing and freedom to run the team the way they liked Alex, you know that. Which they did. Gullit acknowledged that when he took responsibility and walked away without compensation. A bigger man than Souness for that. Edited May 16, 2006 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'm not using hindsight to blame Souness. I despised him and thought he was a shit manager when he was at Rangers and I was working in Jockland. You can blame Shepherd if you like, but I didn't see you blaming him when we won in Rotterdam. And if Roeder does well, ie gets into europe/wins a cup/stablises the club during a time of financial accountability then I look forward to the comments you will make, which I'll be watching with interest. 136695[/snapback] Ok, for that scenario I already say that in that case Shepherd will have been (grammar?) very lucky. Shepherd will deserve praise for being brave enough for just sticking to an easy option instead of coming up with a ingenious masterplan. 136706[/snapback] I'm not trying to pointscore, or type good grammar on an internet message board, just stating what I hope will happen, and accepting the clubs decision for whatever reason. We all know its possible the club may have its hands tied financially, well most of us do apart from those who stupidly think we should carry on throwing money around like there is no tomorrow ie those who backed the changes instigated by Souness which have put us in this position. If Robert and Bellamy were still at the club, and we had not needlessly bought the heartless Spanish twat, we would now be 2 players and 9m quid better off for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22008 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I simply don't agree. Dalglish particularly, and Gullit and Bobby Robson were all big name and successful managers, that were given ALL the backing to be successful. If they didn't succeed to expectation or hopes, it is their fault and no one elses, they carry the can for performance on the field of the players that THEY choose to keep at the club, or want to bring into the club. 136662[/snapback] Daglish wasn't given enough time to be successful though, wouldn't you agree? He was sacked far too early and, therefore, wasn't given the necessary backing imo. EDIT: Totally agree with SLP's and Zico's sentiments too. 136665[/snapback] Possibly. The singing of "attack attack attack" was one of the worst things ever sang at a Cup Final by any fans anywhere, have you forgotten ? We hoped in the summer he [Dalglish] would take heed but when he didn't, he had to go. I am not one who just wants to be entertained by showboaters like Arsprilla, never have been, and never will be. The contrast with the Keegan years was what brought it on. Those who do think they put entertainment before winning....well if we had won tht day and bored the arse off the whole world would anybody have gave a damn ? It would also, obviously, have prolonged Dalglish managership, boring or not. And of course the appointment of Gullit was made because he was the opposite of Dalglish, but he was still a trophy winner and we all thought or at least hoped he could do the same for us. Neither of these managers had the heart for the club, and that is why they didn't succeed and were sacked when it became obvious. If I was forced to say one of them could have been given longer it would have been Dalglish. By "backing", I meant financial backing and freedom to run the team the way they liked Alex, you know that. Which they did. Gullit acknowledged that when he took responsibility and walked away without compensation. A bigger man than Souness for that. 136709[/snapback] Of course, there is ample anecdotal evidence to suggest Shepherd does meddle in the affairs of his managers, and this is problematic. Glenn Roeder I feel will not be strong enough to stand up to him, although I admit this is pure specualtion on my side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 So, employing Souness was a mistake which was easily avoidable then? At least that's how I saw it. Who's to blame though, I'll go for Shepherd. Don't see how us getting to the latter stages on the Champions League exonerates him of a mistake he made afterwards.Re: Roeder, I've already said I hope he proves me wrong. 136700[/snapback] You are completely unable to grasp the fact that everyone makes mistakes in football Alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I simply don't agree. Dalglish particularly, and Gullit and Bobby Robson were all big name and successful managers, that were given ALL the backing to be successful. If they didn't succeed to expectation or hopes, it is their fault and no one elses, they carry the can for performance on the field of the players that THEY choose to keep at the club, or want to bring into the club. 136662[/snapback] Daglish wasn't given enough time to be successful though, wouldn't you agree? He was sacked far too early and, therefore, wasn't given the necessary backing imo. EDIT: Totally agree with SLP's and Zico's sentiments too. 136665[/snapback] Possibly. The singing of "attack attack attack" was one of the worst things ever sang at a Cup Final by any fans anywhere, have you forgotten ? We hoped in the summer he [Dalglish] would take heed but when he didn't, he had to go. I am not one who just wants to be entertained by showboaters like Arsprilla, never have been, and never will be. The contrast with the Keegan years was what brought it on. Those who do think they put entertainment before winning....well if we had won tht day and bored the arse off the whole world would anybody have gave a damn ? It would also, obviously, have prolonged Dalglish managership, boring or not. And of course the appointment of Gullit was made because he was the opposite of Dalglish, but he was still a trophy winner and we all thought or at least hoped he could do the same for us. Neither of these managers had the heart for the club, and that is why they didn't succeed and were sacked when it became obvious. If I was forced to say one of them could have been given longer it would have been Dalglish. By "backing", I meant financial backing and freedom to run the team the way they liked Alex, you know that. Which they did. Gullit acknowledged that when he took responsibility and walked away without compensation. A bigger man than Souness for that. 136709[/snapback] Well, I would say giving the manager time in the case of Daglish is as much to do with backing as the things you mention. Surely the two go hand in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 and we had not needlessly bought the heartless Spanish twat136713[/snapback] Who bought him again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22008 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'm not using hindsight to blame Souness. I despised him and thought he was a shit manager when he was at Rangers and I was working in Jockland. You can blame Shepherd if you like, but I didn't see you blaming him when we won in Rotterdam. And if Roeder does well, ie gets into europe/wins a cup/stablises the club during a time of financial accountability then I look forward to the comments you will make, which I'll be watching with interest. 136695[/snapback] Ok, for that scenario I already say that in that case Shepherd will have been (grammar?) very lucky. Shepherd will deserve praise for being brave enough for just sticking to an easy option instead of coming up with a ingenious masterplan. 136706[/snapback] I'm not trying to pointscore, or type good grammar on an internet message board, just stating what I hope will happen, and accepting the clubs decision for whatever reason. We all know its possible the club may have its hands tied financially, well most of us do apart from those who stupidly think we should carry on throwing money around like there is no tomorrow ie those who backed the changes instigated by Souness which have put us in this position. If Robert and Bellamy were still at the club, and we had not needlessly bought the heartless Spanish twat, we would now be 2 players and 9m quid better off for starters. 136713[/snapback] By far the most important investment in a club is the manager though - this should have been made the priority by a country mile. Roeder at least seems like a cheap option - not the position you should be making cost savings, I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 So, employing Souness was a mistake which was easily avoidable then? At least that's how I saw it. Who's to blame though, I'll go for Shepherd. Don't see how us getting to the latter stages on the Champions League exonerates him of a mistake he made afterwards.Re: Roeder, I've already said I hope he proves me wrong. 136700[/snapback] You are completely unable to grasp the fact that everyone makes mistakes in football Alex. 136716[/snapback] There are mistakes, then there are gargantuan fuck-ups. Only an idiot or an eternal optimist would have thought that Souness's tenure would have been anything other than the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'm not uncomfortable with the choice. I don't give too much about what happened at his previous jobs because I can't see how this is of any relevance for what might happen at Newcastle. As far as I can see Roeder definitely has some coaching skills and knows how to address obvious problems. So Newcastle might the perfect job if he has learnt from previous failures. That is in contrast to the tosser before who because of his lack in character and managing skills had written disaster all over him. The problem I have his with the appointment his because it his so uninspiring. It doesn't look progressive at all. I hoped a new man (like Hiddink or that kind) would have brough in a new type of more professional football culture with new coaching methods, better match preparations etc. I really hoped Newcastle were taking their time to come up with a though out long term plan how to close the gap to other teams who look well ahead in this department. We ended up with a decent bloke as manager backed up by local chaps as his staff. You don't need more than two brain cells to come up with this idea... 136670[/snapback] What you say makes sense, however the concept of "long term stability" is inconsitent. It seems that some people want long term stability, but because it may be a Newcastle connection one it doesn't count. The new staff and coaching dept all have Newcastle connections, and Roeder is a progressive thinker. Do you want it or not ? We have had plenty of Liverpool connections in the past 14 years, and only Keegan did well with the first team. My position is as it always has been by the way, the whole concept of a "5 year plan" is a complete load of bollocks. If the manager wins games he stays and if he loses he goes, its as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22008 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 So, employing Souness was a mistake which was easily avoidable then? At least that's how I saw it. Who's to blame though, I'll go for Shepherd. Don't see how us getting to the latter stages on the Champions League exonerates him of a mistake he made afterwards.Re: Roeder, I've already said I hope he proves me wrong. 136700[/snapback] You are completely unable to grasp the fact that everyone makes mistakes in football Alex. 136716[/snapback] There are mistakes, then there are gargantuan fuck-ups. Only an idiot or an eternal optimist would have thought that Souness's tenure would have been anything other than the latter. 136724[/snapback] Hiring Souness is incompetence on the scale equivalent to me deleting half my works database. Should this happen, I'd be out like a shot. Besides, Souness is not the only fuck up, is he? The list is endless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 and we had not needlessly bought the heartless Spanish twat136713[/snapback] Who bought him again? 136718[/snapback] eerrr....Souness ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I simply don't agree. Dalglish particularly, and Gullit and Bobby Robson were all big name and successful managers, that were given ALL the backing to be successful. If they didn't succeed to expectation or hopes, it is their fault and no one elses, they carry the can for performance on the field of the players that THEY choose to keep at the club, or want to bring into the club. 136662[/snapback] Daglish wasn't given enough time to be successful though, wouldn't you agree? He was sacked far too early and, therefore, wasn't given the necessary backing imo. EDIT: Totally agree with SLP's and Zico's sentiments too. 136665[/snapback] Possibly. The singing of "attack attack attack" was one of the worst things ever sang at a Cup Final by any fans anywhere, have you forgotten ? We hoped in the summer he [Dalglish] would take heed but when he didn't, he had to go. I am not one who just wants to be entertained by showboaters like Arsprilla, never have been, and never will be. The contrast with the Keegan years was what brought it on. Those who do think they put entertainment before winning....well if we had won tht day and bored the arse off the whole world would anybody have gave a damn ? It would also, obviously, have prolonged Dalglish managership, boring or not. And of course the appointment of Gullit was made because he was the opposite of Dalglish, but he was still a trophy winner and we all thought or at least hoped he could do the same for us. Neither of these managers had the heart for the club, and that is why they didn't succeed and were sacked when it became obvious. If I was forced to say one of them could have been given longer it would have been Dalglish. By "backing", I meant financial backing and freedom to run the team the way they liked Alex, you know that. Which they did. Gullit acknowledged that when he took responsibility and walked away without compensation. A bigger man than Souness for that. 136709[/snapback] Well, I would say giving the manager time in the case of Daglish is as much to do with backing as the things you mention. Surely the two go hand in hand. 136717[/snapback] OK. You think we should have kept Dalglish. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 So, employing Souness was a mistake which was easily avoidable then? At least that's how I saw it. Who's to blame though, I'll go for Shepherd. Don't see how us getting to the latter stages on the Champions League exonerates him of a mistake he made afterwards.Re: Roeder, I've already said I hope he proves me wrong. 136700[/snapback] You are completely unable to grasp the fact that everyone makes mistakes in football Alex. 136716[/snapback] There are mistakes, then there are gargantuan fuck-ups. Only an idiot or an eternal optimist would have thought that Souness's tenure would have been anything other than the latter. 136724[/snapback] Strange that such a brilliant board of directors thought fit to appoint him as well eh ? Along with all of those people who backed his changes, therefore backing the board appointing him ... of only myself, Renton, HTL and only one or two others said would be disastrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 As much as i am utterly bored by LM's resilient but pointless defence of Freddie Shepherd i think i understand his position. He has seen quite a few very bad chariman at NUFC and in his appraisal of Freddie, LM's position is that the cup is very much half full rather than half empty. I see it as a bizarre form of optimism, less extreme than that of Gemmil's initial view of Souness but of the same ilk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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