adios 717 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 There are an absolute load of people who grew up with the star wars films and who love them to this day and continue to love them as adults, ensuring that they will always be high up in any such lists. The fact that they are and always have been amazing kids films, but merely good adult films that are very enetrtaining but contain some very poor scripting/dialogue etc. doesn't matter to some people. The LOTR films are great films fullstop, but being fantasy preculdes them in some peoples eyes from ever being given the credit they eserve because some people can never accept fantasy whether it be flms, books, tv or whatever. 141735[/snapback] I have no prejudice against fantasy, and yet I don't like the movies. They were, from what I saw and remember, fairly faithful adaptations, technically impressive and nowhere near as badly put together as Star Wars. But it was an empty 3 hour sleigh-ride x3. When I was young I read Lord of the Rings, felt it was a bit childish at the time, and went on to read fantasy for 10 more years. In fact, Lord of the Rings has got huge plaudits, so who are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 There are an absolute load of people who grew up with the star wars films and who love them to this day and continue to love them as adults, ensuring that they will always be high up in any such lists. The fact that they are and always have been amazing kids films, but merely good adult films that are very enetrtaining but contain some very poor scripting/dialogue etc. doesn't matter to some people. The LOTR films are great films fullstop, but being fantasy preculdes them in some peoples eyes from ever being given the credit they eserve because some people can never accept fantasy whether it be flms, books, tv or whatever. 141735[/snapback] I have no prejudice against fantasy, and yet I don't like the movies. They were, from what I saw and remember, fairly faithful adaptations, technically impressive and nowhere near as badly put together as Star Wars. But it was an empty 3 hour sleigh-ride x3. When I was young I read Lord of the Rings, felt it was a bit childish at the time, and went on to read fantasy for 10 more years. In fact, Lord of the Rings has got huge plaudits, so who are you talking about? 141749[/snapback] It has got huge plaudits, which i'm glad about. I'm not talking about anyone in specific, just some people you talk to, or the odd critic here and there, who's criticisms were based solely on the fact it was fantasy and not on more constructive areas to debate. You'd get some people who refused to watch them becasue they were fantasy, yet felt quite able to still slag them off as being shite! Theres nothing wrong with people like you disliking them because you happen to dislike them and not due to some sobbery or predjudice. Btw what did you do after the 10 more years of reading fantasy, theres plenty out there worth reading, if you're not a literary snob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 I understand why Star Wars is in the top 10, although maybe not for the so postively crafted reasons you give, I was really just getting at you about your earlier argument about them being for kids - most of the stuff made for adults is worse than the kids stuff, if we give them crap they'll graduate to crap. You're the one who's trying to oust Michael Bay. 141745[/snapback] I could have went on about how Star Wars defined what a blockbuster was (for better or worse) and does to this day, or pointed out it was released 4 YEARS before clash of the titans yet makes it look ancient, but the fact that it's great fun is more important than any of that. I don't get your point about if we give kids crap they'll graduate to crap and why I shouldn't dislike Michael Bay. Without Star Wars you wouldn't have The Matrix, Close Encounters, Alien, Terminator, E.T. and loads more. Kids films and adult films. All well made. Without Pearl Harbour, we'd all be a lot happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 (edited) It has got huge plaudits, which i'm glad about. I'm not talking about anyone in specific, just some people you talk to, or the odd critic here and there, who's criticisms were based solely on the fact it was fantasy and not on more constructive areas to debate. You'd get some people who refused to watch them becasue they were fantasy, yet felt quite able to still slag them off as being shite! Theres nothing wrong with people like you disliking them because you happen to dislike them and not due to some sobbery or predjudice. Btw what did you do after the 10 more years of reading fantasy, theres plenty out there worth reading, if you're not a literary snob 141755[/snapback] First of all I stopped reading completely for several years once I went to college and when I went back not much fantasy fell in front of me. The last fantasy I read was the first of the Philip Pullman trilogy, beautiful world he created, shocking writer, he may have got confused between writing through the eyes of a child and writing like a child, or maybe his daughter wrote it? I think years ago he would have been told that he had a solid story but to work on his writing, now the publishing houses see movie deals. I remember reading the about the arduous journey of Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance getting published - ten years or something like that - well worth the extra time, I would guess. I'm sure I've read other fantasy in recent years - I just can't think of any off hand, terrible memory. Actually, you might be able to tell me, Iain Banks Sci Fi/Fantasy stuff, worth a go? Keeping in mind my tastes - I like philosophy or anything a bit mind-bending, emotional stuff tends to bore me, unless it's really top notch. Edited May 26, 2006 by DotBum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 It has got huge plaudits, which i'm glad about. I'm not talking about anyone in specific, just some people you talk to, or the odd critic here and there, who's criticisms were based solely on the fact it was fantasy and not on more constructive areas to debate. You'd get some people who refused to watch them becasue they were fantasy, yet felt quite able to still slag them off as being shite! Theres nothing wrong with people like you disliking them because you happen to dislike them and not due to some sobbery or predjudice. Btw what did you do after the 10 more years of reading fantasy, theres plenty out there worth reading, if you're not a literary snob 141755[/snapback] First of all I stopped reading completely for several years once I went to college and when I went back not much fantasy fell in front of me. The last fantasy I read was the first of the Philip Pullman trilogy, beautiful world he created, shocking writer, he may have got confused between writing through the eyes of a child and writing like a child, or maybe his daughter wrote it? I think years ago he would have been told that he had a solid story but to work on his writing, now the publishing houses see movie deals. I remember reading the about the arduous journey of Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance getting published - ten years or something like that - well worth the extra time, I would guess. I'm sure I've read other fantasy in recent years - I just can't think of any off hand, terrible memory. Actually, you might be able to tell me, Iain Banks Sci Fi/Fantasy stuff, worth a go? Keeping in mind my tastes. 141762[/snapback] I've never read any Iain Banks myself, is he the one who writes under a different name for his sci-fi stuff to his normal books? For fantasy the two authors to read are George RR Martin and Terry Goodkind as fantasy lovers think they're amazing but people who are indifferent to or even dislike fantasy have read them and ended up loving them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 It has got huge plaudits, which i'm glad about. I'm not talking about anyone in specific, just some people you talk to, or the odd critic here and there, who's criticisms were based solely on the fact it was fantasy and not on more constructive areas to debate. You'd get some people who refused to watch them becasue they were fantasy, yet felt quite able to still slag them off as being shite! Theres nothing wrong with people like you disliking them because you happen to dislike them and not due to some sobbery or predjudice. Btw what did you do after the 10 more years of reading fantasy, theres plenty out there worth reading, if you're not a literary snob 141755[/snapback] First of all I stopped reading completely for several years once I went to college and when I went back not much fantasy fell in front of me. The last fantasy I read was the first of the Philip Pullman trilogy, beautiful world he created, shocking writer, he may have got confused between writing through the eyes of a child and writing like a child, or maybe his daughter wrote it? I think years ago he would have been told that he had a solid story but to work on his writing, now the publishing houses see movie deals. I remember reading the about the arduous journey of Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance getting published - ten years or something like that - well worth the extra time, I would guess. I'm sure I've read other fantasy in recent years - I just can't think of any off hand, terrible memory. Actually, you might be able to tell me, Iain Banks Sci Fi/Fantasy stuff, worth a go? Keeping in mind my tastes - I like philosophy or anything a bit mind-bending, emotional stuff tends to bore me, unless it's really top notch. 141762[/snapback] I've got a book for you 'The Sirens of Titan' by Kurt Vonnegut. It's absolutely amazing and it's from the Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre with a heavy dose of philosophy chucked in. Basically about the futility of everything. Depressing yet with a certain brevity about it. Easy to read too, despite being pretty 'deep'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieshandy 0 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 Banks' non sci-fi stuff is better than his sci-fi in my opinioon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 It has got huge plaudits, which i'm glad about. I'm not talking about anyone in specific, just some people you talk to, or the odd critic here and there, who's criticisms were based solely on the fact it was fantasy and not on more constructive areas to debate. You'd get some people who refused to watch them becasue they were fantasy, yet felt quite able to still slag them off as being shite! Theres nothing wrong with people like you disliking them because you happen to dislike them and not due to some sobbery or predjudice. Btw what did you do after the 10 more years of reading fantasy, theres plenty out there worth reading, if you're not a literary snob 141755[/snapback] First of all I stopped reading completely for several years once I went to college and when I went back not much fantasy fell in front of me. The last fantasy I read was the first of the Philip Pullman trilogy, beautiful world he created, shocking writer, he may have got confused between writing through the eyes of a child and writing like a child, or maybe his daughter wrote it? I think years ago he would have been told that he had a solid story but to work on his writing, now the publishing houses see movie deals. I remember reading the about the arduous journey of Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance getting published - ten years or something like that - well worth the extra time, I would guess. I'm sure I've read other fantasy in recent years - I just can't think of any off hand, terrible memory. Actually, you might be able to tell me, Iain Banks Sci Fi/Fantasy stuff, worth a go? Keeping in mind my tastes. 141762[/snapback] I've never read any Iain Banks myself, is he the one who writes under a different name for his sci-fi stuff to his normal books? For fantasy the two authors to read are George RR Martin and Terry Goodkind as fantasy lovers think they're amazing but people who are indifferent to or even dislike fantasy have read them and ended up loving them. 141765[/snapback] Iain Banks ('normal' fiction) and Iain M Banks for sci-fi. Haven't read any of his sci-fi like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 Banks' real world stuff is easy to get through without being trashy. He's a fucked up puppy, though. That's why I thought it might be worth giving his Sci-Fi/Fantasy a go. I'll add those recommendations to the list, quite a bit to get through at the moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 You won't be disappointed by SoT like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 You won't be disappointed by SoT like. 141778[/snapback] That one piqued my interest a little bit more than the others, thought they all sound good. By the way, did you mean brevity or levity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 You won't be disappointed by SoT like. 141778[/snapback] That one piqued my interest a little bit more than the others, thought they all sound good. By the way, did you mean brevity or levity? 141780[/snapback] I meant levity. It's not overlong either though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15742 Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 Iain Banks ('normal' fiction) and Iain M Banks for sci-fi. 141769[/snapback] Cunning disguise, that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Da Vinci code withdrawn from cinemas http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2217242,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Da Vinci code withdrawn from cinemas http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2217242,00.html 146751[/snapback] No concern for human rights like freedom of speech over there like. Let's invade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 2 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Da Vinci code withdrawn from cinemas http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2217242,00.html 146751[/snapback] No concern for human rights like freedom of speech over there like. Let's invade. 146840[/snapback] If this is what restriction of freedom of speech means then I'm all for it tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I will never read that book / watch that film anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 It's canny worrying how people believe the first page, which tells them that it's true. Err... the novel has already started folks. That said, it's canny worrying how many people believe the contents of the Bible.134450[/snapback] That's because the bible is an instrument of oppression by the evil white overlords. Really Alex, i thought we had been through all this tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Iain M Banks Sci Fi is pretty good imo. Most SF books have a very good concept and then very weak characters. Banks gets around this in the 'Culture' novels by making the leading characters machines, then you don't need too much depth to them. Works very well though, i really enjoyed them. The plots were good, the ideas were good, the narative has a slower pace but i enjoyed that. I felt quite lost when i'd read them all I've only read 'The Wasp Factory' for his fiction, good but mighty weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22055 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Iain M Banks Sci Fi is pretty good imo. Most SF books have a very good concept and then very weak characters. Banks gets around this in the 'Culture' novels by making the leading characters machines, then you don't need too much depth to them. Works very well though, i really enjoyed them. The plots were good, the ideas were good, the narative has a slower pace but i enjoyed that. I felt quite lost when i'd read them all I've only read 'The Wasp Factory' for his fiction, good but mighty weird! 146908[/snapback] I recommend Complicity - a cracking read I thought. I hardly ever read any more unfortunately, since I gave up public transport. When I do (on holiday), I tend to stick to autobiographies. Must try harder I guess, and spend less time wasting my time on stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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