General Random Conversation..

[Andrew 4713]

Just now, Renton said:

 

Well that's a good point. Which does beg the question, should we alter our behaviour to be more welcoming to diverse groups? Or is this a safe haven from the "real" world? And we may be 90% white, male,  middle aged (save a few kids like yourself ) and football fans, but i doubt there is a racist, homophobe, or trangenderphobe (?) amongst us. Live and let live but let me use the language I understand.

 

Also, I might add, I’ve been thinking I actually dislike the use of "they" as a gender neutral alternative as it implies plural and actually reduces the functional precision of the English language. So there's that. 

 

I try to think of pronouns and sexualities like names, if I don't know someones name I wouldn't just take a swing at it based on what they look like.

 

It's all a bit clumsy and ham fisted but early progress often is, the manner in which it makes the world better for some people far outweighs the ways it makes it worse for others.

Take Wykis cycling club, outright asserting that only gender neutral terms is the way to go is obviously (to any of us) a clumsy way of doing this, and it will probably relax back to a more considered level in a short time, but the alternative as Wyki put it, was a bunch of old white blokes who didn't mind the status quo because the status quo was made to suit them.

 

As for TT, if we wanted to attract more members and spur some growth then yeah we probably should look to implement some more rules on posting and general offensiveness and clean our act up, but we're not really looking to do that, regular posters all know each other well enough that its not an issue between any of us, I agree that I don't think there is a real racist, homophobe, transphobe or any other ist or phobe among us.

 

More often than not, these things progress when they actually impact our lives, I ask this next question not as an accusation, which it could definitely look like so I want to make it clear its not.

Do you know anyone who is non-binary, gender fluid or trans?

[Monkeys Fist 41932]

Some of his best friends are theys. 

[Gemmill 44179]

I'll call people whatever they tell me to call them, but there needs to be some understanding that people aren't used to this shit, and if they accidentally say he or she, it's not to offend.

 

It's cos for the last 50 years of that person's life it was 100% OK to call someone that looked like a girl "her" or "she". 

 

It's the 0 to 100 on taking offence that can suck my penis. Which for the record prefers "giant monster". 

[Andrew 4713]

1 minute ago, Gemmill said:

I'll call people whatever they tell me to call them, but there needs to be some understanding that people aren't used to this shit, and if they accidentally say he or she, it's not to offend.

 

It's cos for the last 50 years of that person's life it was 100% OK to call someone that looked like a girl "her" or "she". 

 

It's the 0 to 100 on taking offence that can suck my penis. Which for the record prefers "giant monster". 

 

And that has been my lived experience of every person I know who does have pronouns that aren't as one might assume. I absolutely slip up sometimes and it never outwardly seems to bother anyone, correct and move on.

[RobinRobin 11094]

4 hours ago, Gemmill said:

It's the 0 to 100 on taking offence that can suck my penis. Which for the record prefers "chinese mouse". 

[RobinRobin 11094]

12 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Shapism is NOT WELCOME HERE! 

Thank fuck for that

[Renton 21126]

9 hours ago, Andrew said:

 

 

More often than not, these things progress when they actually impact our lives, I ask this next question not as an accusation, which it could definitely look like so I want to make it clear its not.

Do you know anyone who is non-binary, gender fluid or trans?

 

Not knowingly. I know a lot of gay people, particularly lesbians, so never make an assumption about a persons sexuality (just as well as that could have led to some embarassing instances), but I do judge gender purely on appearance. What proportion of the population do you think this affects? 

 

It has got me thinking to when this became a "thing". Earliest mention I can think of was actually a plotline on Hollyoaks. Presumably there were/are a lot of supressed people in my generation. Back in the late 80s in Newcastle, it was just unheard of. There was one transvestite man, really butch with lip stick on wearing a dress and handbag, that almost had celebrity status as a result. Used to drink quite a bit in Luckys iirc, also Dog an Parrot, wonder if any of the older ones here remember him. Can only imagine the grief he got. 

[Monkeys Fist 41932]

There was a transvestite chap that used to run a TV repair shop in Forest Hall back in the 1990s, which always amused me. 

[Gemmill 44179]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Not knowingly. I know a lot of gay people, particularly lesbians, so never make an assumption about a persons sexuality (just as well as that could have led to some embarassing instances), but I do judge gender purely on appearance. What proportion of the population do you think this affects? 

 

It has got me thinking to when this became a "thing". Earliest mention I can think of was actually a plotline on Hollyoaks. Presumably there were/are a lot of supressed people in my generation. Back in the late 80s in Newcastle, it was just unheard of. There was one transvestite man, really butch with lip stick on wearing a dress and handbag, that almost had celebrity status as a result. Used to drink quite a bit in Luckys iirc, also Dog an Parrot, wonder if any of the older ones here remember him. Can only imagine the grief he got. 

 

If it's the same bloke he used to come in Bliss nightclub when I worked there. He would come in on gay night, stand by himself at the end of the bar and drink pints of scotch. 

 

Talk to no one and leave by himself.

 

The weird thing was he looked EXACTLY like Scott Bakula off Quantum Leap and it always made me think he was just trying to relive an "Oh boy" moment where Sam suddenly finds himself in a nightclub, looks in the mirror behind the bar, and realises he's a woman. "Oh boy". 

 

[Dr Gloom 21768]

On 15/06/2022 at 17:08, wykikitoon said:

The club I ride with has added a 'diversity officer' to its committee. To me I don't see an issue with this. Some have had a moan. But in all honesty up until the last few years the whole committee has been a bunch of middle class white retired men who are boring cunts.

 

Today the new diversity officer posted about using gender neutral language. Again I'm all for it. The first question was (from a female I shall add) 'so if I was to say' she got a puncture ' how do I do that using gender neutral language?' 

 

FFS 

 

I replied 'she got a puncture' 

 

To which I got a load of shite back. When I tried telling them all you're doing is stating a fact and not trying to say she got a puncture because she is female I got a load more flack. 

 

We now have to say 'a member got a puncture' 🤣 wokesim at its finest

 

we're being encouraged (not mandated) to put our preferred pronouns at the end of our email

 

[Alex 34739]

9 hours ago, Gemmill said:

I'll call people whatever they tell me to call them, but there needs to be some understanding that people aren't used to this shit, and if they accidentally say he or she, it's not to offend.

 

It's cos for the last 50 years of that person's life it was 100% OK to call someone that looked like a girl "her" or "she". 

 

It's the 0 to 100 on taking offence that can suck my penis. Which for the record prefers "giant monster". 

Chinese mouse is lacist now? Is that the point you’re making here? Asking for a confused middle-aged he/him

[Gemmill 44179]

My penis is enormous is the point I'm making, Alex. 

[Alex 34739]

3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

we're being encouraged (not mandated) to put our preferred pronouns at the end of our email

 

I don’t see the issue. It’s to make others who are non-binary more comfortable with being open about it. Especially as it’s not mandatory. It’s literally a 30 second exercise 

[Alex 34739]

2 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

My penis is enormous is the point I'm making, Alex. 

Enormouse 

[The Fish 10674]

19 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Not knowingly. I know a lot of gay people, particularly lesbians, so never make an assumption about a persons sexuality (just as well as that could have led to some embarassing instances), but I do judge gender purely on appearance. What proportion of the population do you think this affects? 

 

It has got me thinking to when this became a "thing". Earliest mention I can think of was actually a plotline on Hollyoaks. Presumably there were/are a lot of supressed people in my generation. Back in the late 80s in Newcastle, it was just unheard of. There was one transvestite man, really butch with lip stick on wearing a dress and handbag, that almost had celebrity status as a result. Used to drink quite a bit in Luckys iirc, also Dog an Parrot, wonder if any of the older ones here remember him. Can only imagine the grief he got. 

 

This is a learned behaviour though. at one point it would have been fine to ask one of your colleagues if she has a man in her life. Over time, this behaviour has changed to a more inclusive, more plural approach.

 

Men or women identifying as a different gender has been going on for ages, Timeline of transgender history - Wikipedia

 

I don't know why this is at the forefront of social conscious now, but I'd suggest that it's partly those impacted having the courage and tools to have their voice heard, and partly those who are resistant to all minority groups finding a new target for their ire?

[Dr Gloom 21768]

11 minutes ago, Alex said:

I don’t see the issue. It’s to make others who are non-binary more comfortable with being open about it. Especially as it’s not mandatory. It’s literally a 30 second exercise 

 

if someone want to add their pronouns at the end of their email that's their choice. it's also my choice (for the moment) not to bother. 

[Craig 6670]

10 hours ago, Andrew said:

I ask this next question not as an accusation, which it could definitely look like so I want to make it clear its not.

Do you know anyone who is non-binary, gender fluid or trans?

 

Yes, I'm related to one and no, she has absolutely no issue people who get the pronouns 'wrong'. I've regularly called her by her former name simply on the grounds that it was habit for the first 35 years of my life. She is totally understanding. 

Agree with Gemmill. It's the fuckwits who get hyper-sensitive about you getting things wrong that are the problem. In my experience, these tend not to be those types themselves, but supporters of them.

[Renton 21126]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

if someone want to add their pronouns at the end of their email that's their choice. it's also my choice (for the moment) not to bother. 

 

You just add your avatar instead, don't you? 

[Christmas Tree 4676]

Just for future reference, Im fat, but identify as skinny.

 

Im Trans-slender

[RobinRobin 11094]

22 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Just for future reference, Im fat, but identify as skinny.

 

Im Trans-slender

[Gemmill 44179]

23 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Just for future reference, Im fat, but identify as skinny.

 

Im Trans-slender

 

I would cheerfully strangle you. 

[RobinRobin 11094]

If you could your hands round his neck 

[Rayvin 5151]

None of the trans people I know have ever insisted that they/them should be blanket terms for society, only that they would like whatever particular configuration they've identified with used in their specific case.

 

I would wager that such moves are driven more by lawyers for corporations than they are by real people. A corporation might absolutely decide that its safer to just avoid gendering people - IMO eventually they'll avoid humanising people altogether and we'll simply become numbers - but that's the legally safe option.

 

For the rest of us, I think we can go through life being respectful of other people whilst being driven by genuine compassion and decency, rather than a set of rules mandated to us by "authority" and which probably harms the cause more than just letting people navigate it themselves as they become increasingly comfortable with it in a social setting.

[RobinRobin 11094]

Just now, Rayvin said:

For the rest of us, I think we can go through life being respectful of other people whilst being driven by genuine compassion and decency, rather than a set of rules mandated to us by "authority" and which probably harms the cause more than just letting people navigate it themselves as they become increasingly comfortable with it in a social setting.

That's because you are much nicer than the rest of us. 

[Andrew 4713]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Not knowingly. I know a lot of gay people, particularly lesbians, so never make an assumption about a persons sexuality (just as well as that could have led to some embarrassing instances), but I do judge gender purely on appearance. What proportion of the population do you think this affects? 

 

 

It's small, but it will grow as it becomes more commonplace and more accepted because thats how it always works.

 

It happened with left handedness and it continues to happen with people not being straight. (both of which effect me directly)

 

it wasn't until I (fairly recently) accepted a few things about myself and came out that I got a bit more involved in LGBTQ+...stuff (for lack of a better term) that I started meeting more people who were trans, non-binary or gender-fluid and was actually able to bring those issues into my real everyday life. Its important to people, even though they're a very small group of people as it stands, and it requires so little from me that its not really even worth calling it "effort" so I do my best to respect it and if it happens to make the world a slightly better place for someone who just wants to live their life in peace and acceptance (and yeah fuck it, if it makes it worse for some bigoted prick along the way) then thats great and its worthwhile.