ewerk 30629 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Because they see themselves as women? I don't know what the correct term is or who objects to what. Would it be okay to constantly refer to black people as Black British rather than British? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4389 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 I don't mind that they see themselves as women - I guess it's a question of whether that's acceptable to other women. I think the majority are okay with it but that doesn't mean the rest should be deemed hateful if they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) These are people who see the world in terms of where we all fall with respect of privilege, and any disagreement is immediately hateful. This is not normal for left wingers. I remain, last I checked, a 'far left radical' </CT>, but I'm open to at least letting people work through in their heads how they feel about something without shouting and screaming at them. It's not dialogue, it's just intolerance. Edited June 11, 2020 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30629 Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 20 minutes ago, NJS said: I don't mind that they see themselves as women - I guess it's a question of whether that's acceptable to other women. I think the majority are okay with it but that doesn't mean the rest should be deemed hateful if they aren't. There was a time when white women felt uncomfortable with black women Using the same toilets. The facts show that biological women aren’t at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 4 hours ago, ewerk said: There was a time when white women felt uncomfortable with black women Using the same toilets. The facts show that biological women aren’t at risk. If the facts show that, then biological women who oppose it are being transphobic. Not sure there can be any argument on that if actual evidence supports it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44930 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I don't know what either of you are on about. I think I just have a total blind spot on this cos my brain fully cannot compute what the different sides are arguing. One thing for sure though, if you could somehow harness the energy that is poured into being offended and outraged about the subject, you could solve the climate crisis within a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30629 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 7 hours ago, Rayvin said: If the facts show that, then biological women who oppose it are being transphobic. Not sure there can be any argument on that if actual evidence supports it. What do you mean ‘if’? You cheeky fucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3997 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 The argument as I understand it us that there is a difference between your sex which is biologically determined and your gender. Therefore there is a different lived experience between the lived experience of someone who is born onto the female sex and someone who isn't. Anybody who believes the former has the hell hounds of twitter unleashed upon them. There is a nuanced discussion to be had, but there is nowhere to have the discussion. I dont think Rowling is the best advocate, but the response to her doesn't help the discussion that is needed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30629 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) It’s the theoretical element that confuses the fuck out of me. I can understand arguments over whether trans women should use women’s toilets, be able to change their sex on their passport etc. but when people start talking about lived experiences then I don’t see the point in the debate. Are cis women saying that they’re more of a woman than trans women? Is recognising trans women as women diluting their place in the world? Edited June 12, 2020 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44930 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 That last bit is the bit that confuses me. Like it's a zero sum game. Although that can't be what the argument is about so I just revert to assuming that I'm incapable of grasping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3997 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 31 minutes ago, ewerk said: It’s the theoretical element that confuses the fuck out of me. I can understand arguments over whether trans women should use women’s toilets, be able to change their sex on their passport etc. but when people start talking about lived experiences then I don’t see the point in the debate. Are cis women saying that they’re more of a woman than trans women? Is recognising trans women as women diluting their place in the world? They aren't saying they are more of a woman they are just saying there is a difference. They aren't saying Trans woman aren't women. Interestingly there isn't the same heated debate between The Trans F toM community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3997 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30629 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said: They aren't saying they are more of a woman they are just saying there is a difference. They aren't saying Trans woman aren't But to what practical end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13881 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 I don’t think they’re after some sort of practical solution, just that the wider world become more aware of the nuances around them. The end goal isn’t having their own toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3997 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, ewerk said: But to what practical end? Get your tanks off my lady garden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 22 minutes ago, ewerk said: But to what practical end? It's an ideological argument. Seriously, this is the left, it shouldn't be news to you that it's tearing itself apart over an interpretation of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30629 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said: I don’t think they’re after some sort of practical solution, just that the wider world become more aware of the nuances around them. The cock and balls probably give that away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooner 243 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 8 hours ago, spongebob toonpants said: The argument as I understand it us that there is a difference between your sex which is biologically determined and your gender. Therefore there is a different lived experience between the lived experience of someone who is born onto the female sex and someone who isn't. Anybody who believes the former has the hell hounds of twitter unleashed upon them. There is a nuanced discussion to be had, but there is nowhere to have the discussion. I dont think Rowling is the best advocate, but the response to her doesn't help the discussion that is needed i'll never understand the appeal of this medium, the interwebs are toxic enough for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44930 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 He just put this out today. Worth a watch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44930 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 It serves as a pretty good rebuttal to the "now is not the time for protests" argument. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30629 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Nothing respects Churchill’s statue like a good ol’ Nazi salute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11393 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11393 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21937 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 fucking hell, they're all out today 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9796 Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 How is Parky, did you say? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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