Woody tale repeated

[janu 0]

Woody tale repeated from nufc.com

 

From The Times, Wednesday:

 

"Newcastle have also let it be known that they are willing to sign Jonathan Woodgate, a team-mate of Owen at the Bernabéu, on a pay-as-you-play basis should Real decide to release the injury -prone defender."

 

This follows up a similar Woody mention in Tuesday's Chronicle, which speculated that have first refusal on the services of the former Magpie.

 

*Edit - the bit from The Chronicle - by A.Oliver

One pal of Owen's who could join him back at United is his former Real Madrid colleague Jonathan Woodgate. Indeed, United tell me that once Real Madrid appoint a new manager they would not be surprised to hear from the Bernabeu Stadium about Woodgate returning to St James' Park on a pay-per-game basis.

 

Fingers crossed

Edited April 5, 2006 by janu

[David Kelly 1216]

Despite all of his injury problems I'd still be willing to risk a couple million on him.

If he ever does recover his fitness he is one of the best defenders in the world.

[Guest alex]

Surely that would only happen IF Real pay-up his contract though, otherwise why would he leave the lucrative deal there for a pay-as-you-play here? And how would that benefit Madrid?

[janu 0]

Despite all of his injury problems I'd still be willing to risk a couple million on him.

If he ever does recover his fitness he is one of the best defenders in the world.

115429[/snapback]

 

Hopefully he does.

 

Maybe in a deal with Luque moving the opposite direction?

Edited April 5, 2006 by janu

[Craig 6670]

Despite the huge risk it would be, I'd have him back here like a shot.

 

Bramble never played as well as he did when Woody was alongside him, the bloke promoted confidence amongst his fellow defenders in abundance.

[Howaythetoon 0]

If this happens, yet more evidence that we are a joke club. Great player when fit but what the fuck do we want a player for who can only contribute in small doses? Madness.

 

I'd rather blood a youngster through into the squad pecking oreder or spend 3m on an average joe who will fill in the number of games Woodgate is likely to feature in... not a lot. Kid's career is finished, he will never play more than 20 games a season, certainly not on the bounce. He's just not built for it.

 

What we need is a genuine defender, we have Taylor who can go on to become a top-class defender (with any luck), we need someone who will play every game, who can do all the basics, who will give us good leadership and stability at the back, someone who will give us value for money.

 

Something we just haven't had from any of our defensive buys in many a year now.

 

I'd be happy with an Upson, a Distin, A Mellberg.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Howaythetoon

[Barney 0]

I agree with almost all of the above despite my fondness for Woody.

 

Distin is ass though.

[Howaythetoon 0]

I agree with almost all of the above despite my fondness for Woody.

 

Distin is ass though.

115518[/snapback]

 

 

For wanting more money? Or because you think he's shit?

 

I quite like him as a player and he seems to have developed his all-round game a lot, more composed, more consistent. Still not and never will be in the class of Woody (when fit) but we aren't in a position to attract a world-class defender much less afford one.

 

Anyhow, for me our defence isn't a shambles as in individuals or the back-four, it's the way we defend as a team that creates the defensive weaknesses at the back. Especially on the flnaks, all successful sides cut out crosses and force teams to play square balls accross the middle, i.e. balls that can esily be intercepted or a way of playing that doesn't really go anywhere. Watch Liverpool., experts at it. They rarely concede headers or sloppy goals in and from around the box.

 

The whole object of defending is to keep the opposition at bay, as far back as possible.

 

Our attack and midfield just don't potect that back-four as they shoul, not together as units anyway so it's no surprise we leak goals and make very poor individual mistakes. Even the best defenders in the world when put under pressure can look like an ass, the likes of Terry though very rarely get left isolated to be put under any kind of pressure. Boumsong? Ramager? Bramble? All the time.

 

A top-class coach/manager and some patience from fans will see to it that we cut out defensive errors. Good players will form a good sheild. We have good players...

[David Kelly 1216]

I agree with some of what your saying but far too often our defenders make ridiculous individual errors when under hardly any pressure at all and they consistanty look anything but assured the rest of the time you can't blame that on the rest of the team. The likes of Terry wouldn't make the mistakes we've seen from our players

 

I also agree about Upson or Mellberg, think they would be excellent signings but I think you would see Distin be no better here than Bramble.

[Guest alex]

HTT rates Boumsong tbh.

[Taylor27 0]

HTT rates Boumsong tbh.

115546[/snapback]

 

 

Boumsong is a good player, and I believe that next season, if given the chance, he will prove it.

[Howaythetoon 0]

I agree with some of what your saying but far too often our defenders make ridiculous individual errors when under hardly any pressure at all and they consistanty look anything but assured the rest of the time you can't blame that on the rest of the team.  The likes of Terry wouldn't make the mistakes we've seen from our players

 

I also agree about Upson or Mellberg, think they would be excellent signings but I think you would see Distin be no better here than Bramble.

115545[/snapback]

 

Obviously the more talent the less individual errors but why don't Wigan make schoolboy errors week in week out like wor lot do it seems? Man to man, we have the 'superior' talent but a poorer defensive record. Conditioning, working as a unit on the training pitch day in day out, no real chopping and changing etc. That's what I mean by some top-class coaching and some patience from fans will help eradicate needless errors. That's not to say we'll suddenly have a good defence, we won't, that's where good players come into it but we could easily cut out 10-15 goals against via some hard work on the training pitch. It's no coincidence that since Roeder took over, we've looked better defensively, not by much, but we know he has been proactive on the training pitch where as with Souness it was all about grafting your bollocks off and not beating him in 5-a-side "I've still got it" games.

 

I disagree with Distin BTW, I think he has something Bramble doesn't which is the ability to 'download' informtation quickly and act on it. With Bramble it's the rabbit in the headlamps effect, and before he knows it he's been caught out, he just doesn't have good reaction skills IMO.

 

Fabulous technical ability, power, good in the air etc., as a player he's probably better than Distin, in the head though... where it all matters for me as a defender more than real ability.

[Guest alex]

HTT rates Boumsong tbh.

115546[/snapback]

 

 

Boumsong is a good player, and I believe that next season, if given the chance, he will prove it.

115551[/snapback]

My assessment (based on games for Newcastle) would be: takes up bad positions, doesn't read the game well, isn't strong, is poor in the air, isn't comfortable in possession (makes bad decisions like 5 yard passes to team mates to put them under pressure), can't slide tackle to save his life, is quick (but not lighning fast as seen when he let Hasselbaink get the wrong side on him to score).

[Guest alex]

Forgot to mention he can't slide tackle to save his life.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

The problem with Boumsong, and I don't have anything against the guy personally, is that he lets centre forwards bully him too much. The Chelteham game was the prime example, he had a nightmare against a League 2 player because he just couldn't cope with the physical side of it. He looks weak as piss. Tbh, he's the kind of centre half Shearer can still take the piss out of.

[adios 717]

The problem with Boumsong, and I don't have anything against the guy personally, is that he lets centre forwards bully him too much. The Chelteham game was the prime example, he had a nightmare against a League 2 player because he just couldn't cope with the physical side of it. He looks weak as piss. Tbh, he's the kind of centre half Shearer can still take the piss out of.

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Replce 'kind of' with 'only' and I whole-heartedly agree.

[Howaythetoon 0]

HTT rates Boumsong tbh.

115546[/snapback]

 

I do, I also rate Bramble and Shola to some extents. IMO if a player has shown, even if it's in a small window, of being capable of performing at this level which all have numerous times, as a keen observer I ask well why can't they do it week in week out? Why do they go from one extreme to another? I.e. good performances followed by shocking ones?

 

I'm aware Boumsong has been absolute gash this season but so have others and I think he's more of a byproduct of our more overall failures.

 

Take Cris for example, the Brazilian. Gash a few years back, one of the worst defenders I've seen, now playing out of his skin week in week out, so why can't Boumsong? I mean it's not as if he's been gash all his career, he was a star in France is a regular for France and has played well in our shirt many a time.

 

For me Boumsong has raw ability, forget his price tag, forget his shocking performances for a moment, he has ability, why isn't this showing in him regularly though? Is it because he's lacking confidence? Is it because the defence don't protect him enough? Is it because he hasn't really had a regular partner? Is it because of personal problems? Is it because of all these factors?

 

For me, I will support the player and club if they did their best to "come good" even if I have to sit through shit performances, and if after a year or so of trying and there has been no improvement, then I will say, fair enough get rid, try again.

 

We can't afford to be so wreckless with our signings, discard them like broken toys when they don't light up or do a trick. This is where our club lags behind Arsenal for example. Had Sol Campbell pulled his stunt at Toon, we'd have him stung up by his bollocks, but Wenger knew it was mentally where he was falling apart so he worked on him, made it out to be no big deal, we as a club need to look afer our players in that vain and we as fans need to trust the club to do so.

 

But first, we need a Wenger type manager

[David Kelly 1216]

I agree with some of what your saying but far too often our defenders make ridiculous individual errors when under hardly any pressure at all and they consistanty look anything but assured the rest of the time you can't blame that on the rest of the team.  The likes of Terry wouldn't make the mistakes we've seen from our players

 

I also agree about Upson or Mellberg, think they would be excellent signings but I think you would see Distin be no better here than Bramble.

115545[/snapback]

 

Obviously the more talent the less individual errors but why don't Wigan make schoolboy errors week in week out like wor lot do it seems? Man to man, we have the 'superior' talent but a poorer defensive record. Conditioning, working as a unit on the training pitch day in day out, no real chopping and changing etc. That's what I mean by some top-class coaching and some patience from fans will help eradicate needless errors. That's not to say we'll suddenly have a good defence, we won't, that's where good players come into it but we could easily cut out 10-15 goals against via some hard work on the training pitch. It's no coincidence that since Roeder took over, we've looked better defensively, not by much, but we know he has been proactive on the training pitch where as with Souness it was all about grafting your bollocks off and not beating him in 5-a-side "I've still got it" games.

 

I disagree with Distin BTW, I think he has something Bramble doesn't which is the ability to 'download' informtation quickly and act on it. With Bramble it's the rabbit in the headlamps effect, and before he knows it he's been caught out, he just doesn't have good reaction skills IMO.

 

Fabulous technical ability, power, good in the air etc., as a player he's probably better than Distin, in the head though... where it all matters for me as a defender more than real ability.

115553[/snapback]

 

I'm certainly not arguing that with better coaching our defence wouldn't be better but the players we do need better players too. With regards to the comparison with Wigan, I would say they quite possibly have four better defenders than we have. Henchoz and Arjan whatshisface may be getting on and neither of them are world beaters but they know the game.

[Guest alex]

I find it hard to forget the price tag of a player that cost £8million. It should be a case of finished article rather than raw ability at that fee. I'm not convinced of his raw ability as a defender though and I'm certainly of the viewpoint he isn't suited to the Premier League, he looks weak as water up against a big strong lad.

[Lazarus 0]

i'd have woody back as well.

 

i'd offer as much as it takes to buy out his contract then off him a basic wage of say - £25000 per week.

 

then £1000 per appearence and a further bonus for every 5 consecutive appearences.

[Howaythetoon 0]

I find it hard to forget the price tag of a player that cost £8million. It should be a case of finished article rather than raw ability at that fee. I'm not convinced of his raw ability as a defender though and I'm certainly of the viewpoint he isn't suited to the Premier League, he looks weak as water up against a big strong lad.

115584[/snapback]

 

Is it not unfair to judge a player on his price tag though?

 

It's not his fault he cost 8m and I think when people use the price tag thing, it highlights ignorance or a lack of real ability to judge a player based on football merits. Not saying you can't judge a player or that I can, just saying I think it's an excuse or an easy way out for many.

 

If Boumsong cost nothing like Elliott for example, he wouldn't have ahd half the stick he gets, there may even be elements of sympathy or pitty or he wouldn't be discussed at all like Hughes for example who was always considered "a good lad, good to have around" etc.

 

I think he's ideally suited to the Premiership as he has athleticism and pace and he has shown he's trong enough by containing Henry 3 times now. His timing is all off and he's clearly playing at a rushed speed, he always seems to be in a hurry, I think his confidence is shot and he's unhappy, he's going into games wanting them to finish as quickly as possible. I still think we can turn him around and get some use out of hime, as with many of our players. Imagine a Wenger in charge? How would Wenger handle a player like Ameobi for example? Or a Boumsong/Bramble?

[Guest alex]

I wouldn't say containing Henry was particularly about strength, more about pace. Not saying Henry is weak but his game is all about pace and movement. Also, how old is this so-called 'raw talent' Boumsong? He's hardly a bairn is he? He should be at his peak or thereabouts. As for Wenger, he would have peddled Shola and he wouldn't have bought the other two.

[Howaythetoon 0]

I wouldn't say containing Henry was particularly about strength, more about pace. Not saying Henry is weak but his game is all about pace and movement. Also, how old is this so-called 'raw talent' Boumsong? He's hardly a bairn is he? He should be at his peak or thereabouts. As for Wenger, he would have peddled Shola and he wouldn't have bought the other two.

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24 Boumsong isn't he, maybe 25? Back to Henry, Boumsong got quite close to him and Henry faield to shrug him off many a time during their admittedly few encounters, from what I remember.

 

Anyway, you think he's shit, I don't. I will say this though, I'd like to see what a top-noth coach can do with our defense as a whole and I believe we don't need to go and spend millions upon millions to plug some holes. I'd rather we spent good money on full-backs and not central defence.

[Guest alex]

We're desperate for full-backs and centre-halves in my opinion.

[Howaythetoon 0]

We're desperate for full-backs and centre-halves in my opinion.

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I agree with full-backs but in Boumsong, Taylor, Ramage, Bramble and dare I say it, Moore, we are well covered although one solid head in there would be welcome. Full-back, we've always neglected those positions.