Nee Hitzfeld Like...

[Howaythetoon 0]

But interesting

 

Your Shout: Why I Want O'Neill

 

By E-Mail Submission 28 Mar 2006

 

Well, just to get it over with, let's start with his record. In five seasons at Wycombe, he took them from the Conference to 5th place in what is now League One, winning two FA Trophies, the Conference Title, and promotion from League Two on the way.

 

In his final season, he only narrowly missed out on a second successive promotion. After six months at Norwich, where he fell out with the Board, he took over at Leicester half-way through a season and took them to promotion.

 

In four Premiership seasons at Leicester, they never finished outside the top half of the table. They also reached the League Cup final three times, winning twice.

 

He then spent five seasons at Celtic, where previously they had won their League only once in ten seasons. He won three League titles, three Scottish Cups and one League Cup. Celtic also appeared in the UEFA Cup Final, losing narrowly to the Porto side who were to lift the Champions League the following season.

 

Of course, this doesn't prove that the man has the ability to lift the tougher trophies - the Premiership and the Champions League - but these are not realistic targets for the clubs that he was managing.

 

What can be said is that he achieved as much as could reasonably be expected and more with those clubs, and that his record indicates that he has the ability to get the best out of whatever raw materials are at hand.

 

Whether or not you consider him to be the best available candidate, he has proved that he has some ability. What's more, he has no failures on his CV. His success has been consistent, and cannot now be dismissed as a fluke.

 

So the question is, what else is there about O'Neill that might set him apart, as the man to finally unlock our own club's potential?

 

To begin at the beginning, he spent the most successful years of his playing career in the midfield of Brian Clough's Nottingham Forest side, which won the League, two European cups and two League cups in what must surely rank as the most striking example of managerial over-achievement in the history of the British game.

 

It's been said that Clough was his mentor, and though this appears to be a crude generalisation, there do appear to be some characteristics of Clough's style that O'Neill has copied, consciously or not.

 

Clough was not a manager who spent a lot of time on the training ground. He preferred to leave the daily grind to his coaches, as though to make sure that the appearances that he did make and the messages he gave would have all the more impact.

 

O'Neill has followed a similar pattern, and a former player has commented that when he does appear at training, the messing about stops and everyone concentrates that bit harder, eager to impress.

 

It is as if he cultivates a certain presence about himself, careful not to dilute his influence with the players through over-familiarity. A manager who is over-involved can communicate anxiety and a need for control, rather than confidence.

 

Another Clough-like trait is his unpredictability. He seems to like to keep players on their toes by not sticking to any routine. He will turn up at the training ground unexpectedly, alter plans at the last minute, and swing between sympathetic friendliness and abrupt professionalism in a way that can be disconcerting.

 

He likes to keep his players outside the comfort zone, motivated to retain his good opinion by always giving their best on each occasion. This is not rule by fear - he is simply giving the message that past performances and past reputations count for nothing with him. All that matters is the next game, when the players must prove themselves anew.

 

Clough and O'Neill did not get on. The player was subjected to a barrage of criticism and faint praise, which is said to have hurt O'Neill deeply. Perhaps the intention was to motivate, but there also appears to have been a resentment on Clough's part which went beyond the professional.

 

Clough was always conscious of his own limited education, recalling his failing of the 11-plus exam as a traumatic event in his childhood. O'Neill was an ex-University student of law, a thinker who liked to develop his own opinions and who was articulate enough to express himself to telling effect.

 

Perhaps Clough told himself that O'Neill was a smart-arse who needed to be taken down a peg, but more than likely the player also induced a sense of inferiority that his manager found hard to deal with.

 

O'Neill was not the only player to be on the receiving end of Clough's sarcasm, but he was said to be its most frequent victim. O'Neill himself has a reputation for putting big-heads in their place with a caustic remark, but perhaps as a result of his own treatment, he appears to do this with more discrimination than his mentor.

 

It is said that he uses his way with words to build up those who lack confidence, and bring to earth those who have too much. It's been said that Clough's bullying would not have been effective with the modern Premiership footballer, and it is probably as well that O'Neill has developed his own, more subtle methods of handling players.

 

One trait that O'Neill does share with Clough is a firm attitude when it comes to exerting their authority. Indiscipline and lack of effort are not tolerated, and that will apply to the star names as well as the lesser lights.

 

Clough's desire to be master of all he surveyed also led him to take a cavalier and critical attitude towards his club's directors, and, like O'Neill, he had a thin skin when it came to incompetence or interference from the Boardroom.

 

A difference between the two is that O'Neill will attempt to address these problems in ways that go beyond grumbling. At Leicester, there were episodes of him walking into Board meetings and people's offices uninvited, to ask searching questions or argue for alternative courses of action.

 

Unlike Clough, O'Neill appears to have the ability to marshal his arguments in the sort of articulate, structured manner that can convince his bosses, and not simply irritate or challenge.

 

There is no question, therefore, that Shepherd would find O'Neill a challenging manager to handle, and if appointed, there could be fireworks. In his autobiography, Sir Bob paints a picture of secrecy over players' contracts and transfers that O'Neill, with his desire to be involved in all aspects of a club's running, would not tolerate.

 

In his years in post, it has been suggested that Shepherd has accrued more and more power to himself on the football side, until he has almost become a self-appointed Director of Football.

 

This is something that would have to change, but as Shepherd's current methods have acted as a barrier to progress, this is not really an argument against O'Neill's appointment - quite the reverse. However, it is a warning of possible strife to come.

 

One criticism that has been made of both Clough and O'Neill is that of a lack of tactical sophistication. It is said that O'Neill is a motivator whose methods are crude, rather than an astute reader of the game who can outsmart his opposing manager.

 

However, I suspect that, like Clough, O'Neill is not so much a man who is at sea with tactical considerations, but one who believes in keeping this aspect of the game in perspective.

 

He believes in the fundamentals of sending his team out with a clear understanding of their roles, but also with the confidence in their individual abilities to take initiative and responsibility.

 

Flooding players with complicated instructions can be an inhibitor and, on occasion, can communicate a sense of anxiety about the opposition. I sense that O'Neill understands what is going on on the football pitch as well as anybody. He just likes to keep things simple.

 

O'Neill's casual style of touchline dress is reminiscent of Clough, but his manner could not be more different. While Clough projected an undemonstrative, calm confidence, O'Neill is like a dervish jumping up and down the technical area as though he is kicking every ball. Whether it does his team any good, I'm not sure. But it does show the man's complete disregard for what others think, and that mentality is a characteristic of the successful side.

 

His Leicester team acquired the reputation of being a physical, ‘long ball' side - a criticism that has annoyed O'Neill greatly. There is an element of exaggeration here, as is common with such generalisations, but if there is an element of truth in it, one has to consider that O'Neill was simply making the best use of the playing resources that were available to him at a club the size of Leicester.

 

He could hardly be expected to get them playing like Arsenal. What's more, at Celtic, his team showed themselves capable of an exciting, passing game with the ball on the deck. However, reputations can die hard and this seems to be the case with ‘long ball' O'Neill.

 

It's intrigued me that, at both Leicester and Celtic, O'Neill frequently used the 3-5-2 system. In recent years, this formation has fallen out of favour at the top level, except as a way of shedding a defender and throwing people forward in desperate situations. That O'Neill has been able to get the system to work is a tribute to his ability to think through tactical issues, and also retain belief in his own ideas rather than follow more conventional methods.

 

Like Clough, O'Neill projects a strong sense of individualism that can sometimes come across as belligerence. He often seems chippy, argumentative and quirky. I can remember seeing him on the BBC World Cup panel some years ago, when he seemed to regularly fall out with his fellow panellists, with whom he seemed to develop a competitive relationship.

 

When Robbie Williams came on as a novelty guest interviewee, O'Neill gratuitously insulted him by saying how much he admired a man who had been able to build such a successful career despite being unable to sing.

 

I found his manner tiresome and boorish at the time, but I would now place his behaviour in a different context. O'Neill is not a diplomat who can play along with other people's games. He has an urge to impose himself, and will react to things that irk him.

 

At times, I think O'Neill can seem thin-skinned, which may not be the best qualification for the Newcastle job - although an even worse one when it comes to managing England. At Leicester, he took over an ailing club that was in the middle of a Boardroom battle, and had to suffer much criticism initially from disgruntled fans.

 

He was prepared to meet a supporters' delegation for a discussion, but in later months, he didn't forget his earlier harsh treatment. After Leicester were promoted, he phoned up several members of the public who had earlier written to him, questioning his competence, and asked them if they would care to revise their opinion. However, there is no sign that at Leicester, or anywhere else, O'Neill has allowed criticism to affect his inner self-belief. It is simply his style to argue back.

 

There is every sign that O'Neill's aggressive individualism rubs off on his players in a constructive way. His determination and confidence can be infectious and whilst his teams can lose to quality opposition, they can be guaranteed to step up to the contest. They do not lose through complacency, lack of concentration, mental tiredness or nerves, and O'Neill has a reputation for pre-match talks that galvanise his teams in an exceptional way.

 

The relentless manner in which his Celtic side accumulated points week after week speaks volumes for O'Neill's ability to keep his teams properly focused. In their UEFA Cup run, his team found itself outplayed by Blackburn and Liverpool for long periods, but heads never dropped and they ended the ties well on top. In the final against Porto - a different class of opposition altogether - his team only succumbed in extra time, by 3-2. O'Neill himself must be curious as to what he could achieve with more resources.

 

Like Clough, there is something of the outsider about O'Neill. He has a restless desire to prove himself, and to come out on top in any competition, whether it be in a studio discussion or a football match. His argumentative nature apparently stemmed right back to his infancy, where he would lecture adults in a precocious manner.

 

Like Clough, he came from a large family, an environment that is often the background of the pathologically competitive. He has close relationships and loyal friendships within the game, but he does not have the extrovert air of the traditional British club manager. There is an intensity in his approach to his work that, by all accounts, can make him an uncomfortable colleague to those that he does not respect or trust.

 

O'Neill has worked his way up from the bottom. He has accepted bigger and bigger challenges, and has a reputation for thinking carefully about his next move. Many thought that Celtic was a surprising step for him, in that he seemed destined for one of the major Premiership clubs as his next post.

 

This may indicate an inner caution or insecurity on O'Neill's part. Perhaps he is determined not to fail, and is careful not to bite off more than he can chew. This prompts me to believe that, despite the temptations of the England post, he may find the Newcastle challenge more to his liking.

 

This is not because it is an easier job - it is because he may recognise a closer match between what the post demands and what he has to offer. The England job would be frustrating for a man who likes to feel in control of affairs, and is definitely not for a man who lacks patience with the diplomatic niceties.

 

In recent weeks, I've seen O'Neill compared unfavourably with Continental managers like Hitzfeld and Hiddink, who have the more extensive track records and who, rightly or wrongly, are said to be more tactically astute.

 

Firstly, I think it is wrong and naïve to pigeon-hole O'Neill as a mere motivator, and secondly, there is something to be said for choosing the man whose career is still on the rise, rather than one who would be taking, at best, a sideways step.

 

But most of all, I also feel one needs to bear in mind that there are horses for courses. It could be said that only a madman would accept the Newcastle job, and only a genius could make a success of it. Perhaps in O'Neill we might - just might - have someone who ticks both boxes.

 

Sent in by Newcastle-Online.com reader Bob Yule

 

Source: http://www.newcastle-online.com/news.php?s...rt_from=&ucat=&

[smoggeordie 0]

Long time no see HTT

[Howaythetoon 0]

My main concern with O'Neill is his wife's illness, if she tails it say halfway through next season, where will that leave us? He's a risky option given those circumstances. (I say that not knowing the extent of his wife's illness)

 

My other concern is that a few Celtic fans I've talked to claim he lost some of his spark once his wife become ill and they noticed a huge decrease in focus and direction from their team towards the end of the season. I can't help feel half his success is down to his passion and energy (like KK) and if that somehow gets reduced I don't think he has enough in his other lockers to compensate for that (again like KK).

 

I like the sound of his back-room staff though, they seem highly thought of and while O'Neill's 'style' also concerns me, I did watch a fairly indepth interview on John Barnes' football show a few years back where he said he would change his methods if he knew that would bring success so I'm hopeful that given the resources and quality of players he'll be able to sign, he'll expand his football ideologies.

 

Still prefer Hitzfeld like

Edited March 28, 2006 by Howaythetoon

[GafferTape 0]

I'm not reading 2,500 words of that, but the first few paragraphs made him look like a supa coach.

 

Too long, just like every artcile on N-O ever.

[geordieshandy 0]

However, I suspect that, like Clough, O'Neill is not so much a man who is at sea with tactical considerations, but one who believes in keeping this aspect of the game in perspective.

 

He believes in the fundamentals of sending his team out with a clear understanding of their roles, but also with the confidence in their individual abilities to take initiative and responsibility.

 

Flooding players with complicated instructions can be an inhibitor and, on occasion, can communicate a sense of anxiety about the opposition. I sense that O'Neill understands what is going on on the football pitch as well as anybody. He just likes to keep things simple.

 

Sounds like Souness that bit.

[k4t0 0]

I will be happy if he becomes our next manager and am more than willing to give him a chance.

 

I'll back him 100% from the off and see what he brings, the same goes for any other good manager who would consider our clubs offer.

[peasepud 59]

My main concern with O'Neill is his wife's illness, if she tails it say halfway through next season, where will that leave us? He's a risky option given those circumstances. (I say that not knowing the extent of his wife's illness)

 

My other concern is that a few Celtic fans I've talked to claim he lost some of his spark once his wife become ill and they noticed a huge decrease in focus and direction from their team towards the end of the season.

.....

111269[/snapback]

 

Not sure on this but isnt his missus on the mend? I thought that was how he was now in the frame for jobs?

 

If that is the case then maybe it could go in our favour, wouldnt he have more spark than ever, being keen to get back in there and prove himself again?

[Howaythetoon 0]

My main concern with O'Neill is his wife's illness, if she tails it say halfway through next season, where will that leave us? He's a risky option given those circumstances. (I say that not knowing the extent of his wife's illness)

 

My other concern is that a few Celtic fans I've talked to claim he lost some of his spark once his wife become ill and they noticed a huge decrease in focus and direction from their team towards the end of the season.

.....

111269[/snapback]

 

Not sure on this but isnt his missus on the mend? I thought that was how he was now in the frame for jobs?

 

If that is the case then maybe it could go in our favour, wouldnt he have more spark than ever, being keen to get back in there and prove himself again?

111366[/snapback]

 

I think she's better aye, and fingers crossed she remains that way, but given her illness she could go into remission but I'm sure MON won't accept any kind of job unless he's 100% satisfied he could do that job. I just worry about the inbetween.

 

I still think if he gets offered the England job, he'll take it though and where that leaves us is anyones guess. Sven and Big Sam seem to be names that won't go away. I'd be happy with Big Sam like, Sven I'm not sure. Doubt we'll get either mind.

[JawD 99]

Big sam? Please no ... While he has good points, he just aint what Id like to see. Many will typically brand him "shite football" and judging by their efforts when they came u p and when I was down there last, its quite accurate (HOOf IT!). But I'd rather we went for someone with European experience (as opposed to a slight flirtation in europe). Maybe thats not relevant yet, but europe must be out aim for next season. As we're thinking long term, Id like us to be well prepared for the eventuality.

 

Who knows how he'd do, but he wouldnt be next on my list (though would be before Curblishly, Bruce or OLeary).

[Guest alex]

Allardyce fucking loves himself anarl, according to the beeb, this is what he had to say for himself in relation to the England job the other day:

26 March - "I don't think there is another manager in this country who has achieved as much as I have."

[Gemmill 42665]

Allardyce fucking loves himself anarl, according to the beeb, this is what he had to say for himself in relation to the England job the other day:

26 March - "I don't think there is another manager in this country who has achieved as much as I have."

111651[/snapback]

 

Aye, he was talking at the weekend as well saying that everyone in the country wants an English coach and that it was up to the FA now not to "betray" the public and the top English coaches. What a pillock.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Allardyce fucking loves himself anarl, according to the beeb, this is what he had to say for himself in relation to the England job the other day:

26 March - "I don't think there is another manager in this country who has achieved as much as I have."

111651[/snapback]

 

What that report didn't include was...

 

"with the resources I've had to work with"

 

Which of course he'd be right. Spent 750K on Speed last year, 1m this year. Amazing job and I'd be delighted if we ended up with Big Sam, rather have him than O'Neill.

 

As for boring football, his team play no differently to Chelsea and Liverpool, Bolton just have less flair players so it looks a lot worse. I watched them against West Ham when they beat them 4-1, tore them to shreds and played some great stuff.

 

I doubt we'll end up with Sam though.

[Optimistic Nut 31]

Allardyce fucking loves himself anarl, according to the beeb, this is what he had to say for himself in relation to the England job the other day:

26 March - "I don't think there is another manager in this country who has achieved as much as I have."

111651[/snapback]

 

What that report didn't include was...

 

"with the resources I've had to work with"

 

Which of course he'd be right. Spent 750K on Speed last year, 1m this year. Amazing job and I'd be delighted if we ended up with Big Sam, rather have him than O'Neill.

 

As for boring football, his team play no differently to Chelsea and Liverpool, Bolton just have less flair players so it looks a lot worse. I watched them against West Ham when they beat them 4-1, tore them to shreds and played some great stuff.

 

I doubt we'll end up with Sam though.

111662[/snapback]

 

Wouldn't agree with that. Okocha, Nakata, Nolan, Stelios...not exactly "grafters".

[Guest alex]

He's done very well at Bolton. That quote apart though, the bloke has a few tickets on himself although so has Mourinho and I'd have him here Seems an innovative coach and gets a hell of a lot out of the limited resources he has. I'd be a bit concerned about whether he can step up to next level though, i.e. compete for honours/consistently get into Europe with a bigger budget.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Allardyce fucking loves himself anarl, according to the beeb, this is what he had to say for himself in relation to the England job the other day:

26 March - "I don't think there is another manager in this country who has achieved as much as I have."

111651[/snapback]

 

What that report didn't include was...

 

"with the resources I've had to work with"

 

Which of course he'd be right. Spent 750K on Speed last year, 1m this year. Amazing job and I'd be delighted if we ended up with Big Sam, rather have him than O'Neill.

 

As for boring football, his team play no differently to Chelsea and Liverpool, Bolton just have less flair players so it looks a lot worse. I watched them against West Ham when they beat them 4-1, tore them to shreds and played some great stuff.

 

I doubt we'll end up with Sam though.

111662[/snapback]

 

Wouldn't agree with that. Okocha, Nakata, Nolan, Stelios...not exactly "grafters".

111664[/snapback]

 

Not quite in the class of Crespo, SWP, Robben et al though are they? Although I get your point.

 

Alex I agree regarding your concerns over Big Sam, but then I think most candidates who have been linked have big questions marks over them, some more than others, even Hitzfeld has some question marks given he has no Premiership experience.

 

I rate Big Sam though and I think out of them all, he has the brains, the desire and the belief to climb a few extra steps that I just don't think the likes of O'Neill can. Unlike MON, Sam is the coach, the tactical mind, the tutor, the motivator, he's everything. He lost most of his backroom team last season and during the close season, but Bolton have improved even more. If MON lost Walford and Robertson, he'd be fucked. The Irish Mr Motivator.

[Guest alex]

Does the manager need to do the lot though? It doesn't matter if you aren't a great coach as long as you have a great backroom staff. I'm not necessarily saying O'Neill is the ideal man like or that Allardyce wouldn't do a good job. In a perfect world we'd be getting someone like Hiddink or Hitzfeld though, obvioulsy. I wouldn't mind having KK back either, although that's probably my heart rather than my head talking.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Does the manager need to do the lot though? It doesn't matter if you aren't a great coach as long as you have a great backroom staff. I'm not necessarily saying O'Neill is the ideal man like or that Allardyce wouldn't do a good job. In a perfect world we'd be getting someone like Hiddink or Hitzfeld though, obvioulsy. I wouldn't mind having KK back either, although that's probably my heart rather than my head talking.

111678[/snapback]

 

You're probably right Alex, I don't think these days clubs need managers who can do the lot, but higher up the table, if you look at the top teams, their managers are well rounded coaches who excell in a number of things and I think if you want to be at that level, you have to follow suit.

 

That said, Fergie isn't a great coach, his tactical acumen is average and he's not a great thinker of the game, and look at his success. Achieved via having the right set-up around him and being able to dicate that as the string puller if you like.

 

But I'd say he's a dying breed and for most of his success, no other club in this country has had the number of top-class talent coming through the ranks all at the same time and had the resources Man Utd have had.

 

Wenger has shown that by being an all-rounded great manager, i.e. the coach, the tactics, the training, the motivator, that you don't need lots of money, big gates and a crop of youngsters, or even a great backroom team.

 

I'd prefer a manager who has more strings to his bow if you like as the likelyhood of that man creating a great backrom team, would be high anyway.

 

That's why I prefer Big Sam to O'Neill and maybe even Hiddink and other big name managers like Sven.

 

As a club, I feel we need that. We can accept top 6 finishes or we can for once and for all, branch out, extend ourselves and really go for it. The Sir Bobby/O'Neill stabilise, top 6 European football, good cup runs type of management only ever ends in tears because usually those type of managers can't move up another level.

 

O'Neill will arrive, get us into the top 6, maybe even the CL and win us a cup, great, yes please, but with that our expectations will rise and we want the title, and because he's not good enough to achieve that (IMO), he'll eventually get the sack or his early success will go into decline (like Sir Bobby). And 3-4 years down the line we'll all be wanting a manager who can take us up an extra level.

 

Well, now is as good a time as ever. Our stock is falling, clubs like Liverpool, West Ham, Villa and Pompey are the targets of rich individuals, we need a special manager like Arsenal got in Wenger, someone who has it all or enough of it all.

 

I think we are putting al our eggs into one bascket with O'Neill. I hope we have other options lined up.

[Guest alex]

I hope you aren't suggesting Mr. Shepherd doesn't have a contingency plan if we don't get Martin O'Neill.

[Howaythetoon 0]

I hope you aren't suggesting Mr. Shepherd doesn't have a contingency plan if we don't get Martin O'Neill.

111700[/snapback]

 

God no, why would I suggest that. He wouldn't leave us high and dry.

[Footsoldier 0]

A rich individual wouldn't make that much difference at Newcastle as we've always lashed out the cash. What we need is a manager that can actually identify and acquire good players at a reasonable price and get them to step up their games like Jol has at spurs. We sign too many players that turn into duds once they get too the Toon and then we're back to square one.