Optimistic Nut 190 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=37...ready+to+return Ready to return to management next season, and outside of France. Would have him here in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wor Al 0 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 yeah he's ok. Not sure if he's the man we're looking for, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus 0 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 i'd say he was more promising than proven. and therefore nee good to the toon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 and his long term track record of managerial success is ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46064 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 HUGE risk. Which is the LAST thing we need for this appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut 190 Posted March 26, 2006 Author Share Posted March 26, 2006 and his long term track record of managerial success is ????? 110731[/snapback] Well I can remember either on here or N-O, when people were putting O'Neill's name forward that the only reason he didn't win the UEFA Cup was because he got beat off Mourinho in the final...which manager stopped Deschamps from winning the Champions League in 2004? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 and his long term track record of managerial success is ????? 110731[/snapback] Well I can remember either on here or N-O, when people were putting O'Neill's name forward that the only reason he didn't win the UEFA Cup was because he got beat off Mourinho in the final...which manager stopped Deschamps from winning the Champions League in 2004? 110741[/snapback] and his long term track record of managerial success is ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut 190 Posted March 26, 2006 Author Share Posted March 26, 2006 He doesn't have one. Doesn't mean he's not a good manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInspiration 1 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 (edited) What long-term track records do some of the other candidates have? Stuart Pearce for example: Has passion Media darling ... Edited March 26, 2006 by TheInspiration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo 175 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Can't say I'd be happy to risk Newcastle United to a manager of his limited experience, and especially condsidering that he didn't exactly show meaningful respect or understanding of the English game whilst at Chelea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 Fucking hell the man has a proven track record in the champions league and in the french league and yet a you guys think a man who has won the two horse race in the scotland is perfect. Deschamp has played in the premier league, won the world cup and been successful with a club which is surrounded by money but spends none! If the above comments are the total sum of some people's footballing knowledge we may as well employ Steve Bruce now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie 0 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Fucking hell the man has a proven track record in the champions league and in the french league and yet a you guys think a man who has won the two horse race in the scotland is perfect.Deschamp has played in the premier league, won the world cup and been successful with a club which is surrounded by money but spends none! If the above comments are the total sum of some people's footballing knowledge we may as well employ Steve Bruce now 110780[/snapback] What proven track record? One cup run in the Champions League and a French LEAGUE Cup. Gerrin. That he played in the Premier League and won the World Cup means absolutely nowt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Fucking hell the man has a proven track record in the champions league and in the french league and yet a you guys think a man who has won the two horse race in the scotland is perfect.Deschamp has played in the premier league, won the world cup and been successful with a club which is surrounded by money but spends none! If the above comments are the total sum of some people's footballing knowledge we may as well employ Steve Bruce now 110780[/snapback] What proven track record? One cup run in the Champions League and a French LEAGUE Cup. Gerrin. That he played in the Premier League and won the World Cup means absolutely nowt. 110797[/snapback] And consistant Champions League qualification in a league far more competitive than Scotland, yeap no proven track record. Mind you Wullie I can see you being happy once Bruce is appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie 0 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 (edited) Fucking hell the man has a proven track record in the champions league and in the french league and yet a you guys think a man who has won the two horse race in the scotland is perfect.Deschamp has played in the premier league, won the world cup and been successful with a club which is surrounded by money but spends none! If the above comments are the total sum of some people's footballing knowledge we may as well employ Steve Bruce now 110780[/snapback] What proven track record? One cup run in the Champions League and a French LEAGUE Cup. Gerrin. That he played in the Premier League and won the World Cup means absolutely nowt. 110797[/snapback] And consistant Champions League qualification in a league far more competitive than Scotland, yeap no proven track record. Mind you Wullie I can see you being happy once Bruce is appointed. 110801[/snapback] Why? Bruce is not going to be appointed, so that's a complete non-starter anyway, but I don't believe I ever mentioned Bruce. For the record, I don't think much of O'Neill either because Scotland is a joke league, so I'm not sure why you bring that up. Monaco have won the French League twice in the past ten years, he hardly qualified for the Champions League with some rank outsider. Edited March 27, 2006 by Wullie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Why? Bruce is not going to be appointed, so that's a complete non-starter anyway, but I don't believe I ever mentioned Bruce. For the record, I don't think much of O'Neill either because Scotland is a joke league, so I'm not sure why you bring that up. Monaco have won the French League twice in the past ten years, he hardly qualified for the Champions League with some rank outsider. 110802[/snapback] Bruce was mentioned because he is the level of your arguement. O'Neil was brought up because people have stated their support for his appointment. Rank outsiders? As in Troyes, Marseille, Lyon, etc. Teams Newcastle have failed to beat when asked over recent years or teams we couldn't even be compared to because they have a proven track record over the last 10 years. Let's look a Deschamps record as a manager: 02/03 - 2nd 03/04 - 3rd 04/05 - 3rd Plus: Runners up in the Champions League 03/04. Round of 16 in the Champions League 04/05. What this isn't good enough? Wullie, people under-rate the french league and they are mistaken for doing so. By the way how are AS Monaco doing without Deschamp? 12th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie 0 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Rank outsiders? As in Troyes, Marseille, Lyon, etc. Teams Newcastle have failed to beat when asked over recent years or teams we couldn't even be compared to because they have a proven track record over the last 10 years. I really don't see your point here. What's Newcastle got to do with it? My point was that qualifying for the Champions League with Monaco is like qualifying in this country with Arsenal. They are a big successful club in France with a strong European pedigree who can expect to be up there. I'm really not sure why you brought Newcastle into it? In fact I'm not even sure why you brought those other French clubs into it. Let's look a Deschamps record as a manager:02/03 - 2nd 03/04 - 3rd 04/05 - 3rd Plus: Runners up in the Champions League 03/04. Round of 16 in the Champions League 04/05. What this isn't good enough? Wullie, people under-rate the french league and they are mistaken for doing so. Who said it wasn't good enough? I am just of the opinion that three seasons worth of decent (no better than that) management is no basis on which to hire a manager for such a huge and difficult job that the next manager of NUFC will have on his hands. By the way how are AS Monaco doing without Deschamp?12th. 110803[/snapback] Good for them, he did a good job for them, no-one's denying that. Don't forget that Jean Tigana took Monaco to a League title and a Champions League semi final too. Didn't exactly do a great job at Fulham, did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Rank outsiders? As in Troyes, Marseille, Lyon, etc. Teams Newcastle have failed to beat when asked over recent years or teams we couldn't even be compared to because they have a proven track record over the last 10 years. I really don't see your point here. What's Newcastle got to do with it? My point was that qualifying for the Champions League with Monaco is like qualifying in this country with Arsenal. They are a big successful club in France with a strong European pedigree who can expect to be up there. I'm really not sure why you brought Newcastle into it? In fact I'm not even sure why you brought those other French clubs into it. Let's look a Deschamps record as a manager:02/03 - 2nd 03/04 - 3rd 04/05 - 3rd Plus: Runners up in the Champions League 03/04. Round of 16 in the Champions League 04/05. What this isn't good enough? Wullie, people under-rate the french league and they are mistaken for doing so. Who said it wasn't good enough? I am just of the opinion that three seasons worth of decent (no better than that) management is no basis on which to hire a manager for such a huge and difficult job that the next manager of NUFC will have on his hands. By the way how are AS Monaco doing without Deschamp?12th. 110803[/snapback] Good for them, he did a good job for them, no-one's denying that. Don't forget that Jean Tigana took Monaco to a League title and a Champions League semi final too. Didn't exactly do a great job at Fulham, did he? 110805[/snapback] From all your replies above, the only thing I'm sure of is that you aren't sure about anything. Do you even know what we are discussing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie 0 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 From all your replies above, the only thing I'm sure of is that you aren't sure about anything.Do you even know what we are discussing? 110806[/snapback] Suit yourself. You obviously think Deschamps' record of one great cup run and less success with Monaco than Jean Tigana suggests he's the man to take NUFC to the top. I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 From all your replies above, the only thing I'm sure of is that you aren't sure about anything.Do you even know what we are discussing? 110806[/snapback] Suit yourself. You obviously think Deschamps' record of one great cup run and less success with Monaco than Jean Tigana suggests he's the man to take NUFC to the top. I don't. 110807[/snapback] Yes I actualy do think he would be a good appointment but my discussion with you isn't based around what I think but looking at the pedigree of him as a manager. Le Guen, Hiddink, O'Neil all managers that are touted as the one to lead Newcastle back to consistant top four finishes and yet all managers that have only performed in France, Holland and Scotland (England to some degree for O'Neil). You argue that Deschamp has only had one decent cup run, now unless you know something I don't, the Champions League isn't really a "cup" competition, is it? To get there you have to consistantly perform through the group stage and then they had to knock out Real and Chelsea - you dismiss it too lightly. By the way Monaco and Newcastle are closer in club stature than Monaco and Fulham. Success should be messured in consistant top 4 league finishes (and Europena qualification) but it appears you don't rate that as a successful season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie 0 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 From all your replies above, the only thing I'm sure of is that you aren't sure about anything.Do you even know what we are discussing? 110806[/snapback] Suit yourself. You obviously think Deschamps' record of one great cup run and less success with Monaco than Jean Tigana suggests he's the man to take NUFC to the top. I don't. 110807[/snapback] Yes I actualy do think he would be a good appointment but my discussion with you isn't based around what I think but looking at the pedigree of him as a manager. Le Guen, Hiddink, O'Neil all managers that are touted as the one to lead Newcastle back to consistant top four finishes and yet all managers that have only performed in France, Holland and Scotland (England to some degree for O'Neil). You argue that Deschamp has only had one decent cup run, now unless you know something I don't, the Champions League isn't really a "cup" competition, is it? To get there you have to consistantly perform through the group stage and then they had to knock out Real and Chelsea - you dismiss it too lightly. By the way Monaco and Newcastle are closer in club stature than Monaco and Fulham. Success should be messured in consistant top 4 league finishes (and Europena qualification) but it appears you don't rate that as a successful season. 110808[/snapback] There are certainly similar arguments to be made against all those managers you mention. The only manager in the frame with a pretty unblemished record is really Hitzfeld. Course that's no reason to write any of the others off, nobody's perfect. His record at Monaco is admirable, he did superbly to get to that Champions League final and has a decent record in their League. However football history is littered with managers who had one great cup success or a few brilliant seasons before falling from grace, or even managers who could only do it at one club then failed miserably elsewhere, or at least never got near similar success. I'm not saying Deschamps is a poor manager, or that he doesn't have a good record so far. I do though think that he is still inexperienced and still to prove himself over a long period of time or at more than one club. Course, he deserves his chance and he's likely to do well wherever he goes, however with the current situation as it is, the job of the next manager of NUFC is a monumentally large one and he would be a massive gamble in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 There are certainly similar arguments to be made against all those managers you mention. The only manager in the frame with a pretty unblemished record is really Hitzfeld. Course that's no reason to write any of the others off, nobody's perfect. His record at Monaco is admirable, he did superbly to get to that Champions League final and has a decent record in their League. However football history is littered with managers who had one great cup success or a few brilliant seasons before falling from grace, or even managers who could only do it at one club then failed miserably elsewhere, or at least never got near similar success. I'm not saying Deschamps is a poor manager, or that he doesn't have a good record so far. I do though think that he is still inexperienced and still to prove himself over a long period of time or at more than one club. Course, he deserves his chance and he's likely to do well wherever he goes, however with the current situation as it is, the job of the next manager of NUFC is a monumentally large one and he would be a massive gamble in my opinion. 110809[/snapback] True but the advantage of a younger manager is that they can setup the club so it will grow with them. Whereas Hitzfield in his mid-60s you know will only be here for a couple of seasons and possibly we end up back in the same situation as we had with SBR, a grumpy old man who in the end was too stuborn to admit mistakes or change his ways. See pros and cons are there for whomever is appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie 0 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 Hitzfeld's only 57. See your point though, no appointment can ever be without its critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46064 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 (edited) sammy, whether you like it or not, this bloke is largely unproven and would represent a HUGE risk. No point telling people they don't know about football just because they're not keen on taking that sort of risk with this next appointment. Don't forget David O'Leary once had a pretty good Champions League run.... Edited March 27, 2006 by Gemmill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3508 Posted March 27, 2006 Share Posted March 27, 2006 sammy, whether you like it or not, this bloke is largely unproven and would represent a HUGE risk. No point telling people they don't know about football just because they're not keen on taking that sort of risk with this next appointment. Don't forget David O'Leary once had a pretty good Champions League run.... 110813[/snapback] Scary that isn't it. It's amazing what money can buy. Gemmill, I think in the end Wullie and I agreed that no matter who is appointed it is a HUGE risk. Consider also the fact that it is quite possible the fat man will return to keeping his powder dry after the success he's had with opening his purse for clueless it is going to be a HUGE job for whomever that takes it. But Gemmill if Deschamp is unproven (I think the constant top 3 finishes with Monaco when he was there, are proof against that but hey my opinion isn't yours) what is it in MON's resume that impresses you? Or Le Guen or even Hiddink for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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