Football Finances

[Rayvin 5889]

I think my counter to this would be that if no one in the PL can afford Isak because of PSR, it's not helping the big boys hoover up the best players in the way they used to. It's also seemingly producing teams like Bournemouth and Forest who can challenge far higher up than they would have been able to previously, because mismanagement from the big clubs prevents them from spending their way out of trouble. Whatever it was intended to do, it does not seem to be doing. The big 6 seem to be on shakier ground than ever before...

[ewerk 32821]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I think my counter to this would be that if no one in the PL can afford Isak because of PSR, it's not helping the big boys hoover up the best players in the way they used to. It's also seemingly producing teams like Bournemouth and Forest who can challenge far higher up than they would have been able to previously, because mismanagement from the big clubs prevents them from spending their way out of trouble. Whatever it was intended to do, it does not seem to be doing. The big 6 seem to be on shakier ground than ever before...

 

Man U have been spending like drunken sailors for years, the fact that they are struggling is because of how it has been spent rather than the amount they've spent. Spurs have plenty of PSR headroom but chose not to spend and Chelsea have literally bought their way back up the table. No one else has been able to maintain a sustained challenge for the European spots over the last decade and a large part of that is due to PSR.

[Rayvin 5889]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

Man U have been spending like drunken sailors for years, the fact that they are struggling is because of how it has been spent rather than the amount they've spent. Spurs have plenty of PSR headroom but chose not to spend and Chelsea have literally bought their way back up the table. No one else has been able to maintain a sustained challenge for the European spots over the last decade and a large part of that is due to PSR.

 

Chelsea have had to do it by selling hotels though. How many more of those do they have to shift? It's not sustainable.

 

Man Utd fair enough but then imagine the same situation without PSR - they'd still be spending into a recovery.

 

Spurs fair.

 

I think in the end though, that if the pattern we're seeing this season holds up into future seasons, it's hard to argue that it isn't PSR. You could look at this season as merely transitional I suppose, but those transitions are coming around more often and taking a lot longer. The dominance of the top 6 doesn't seem as assured as it once did.

[Howmanheyman 36145]

8 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Chelsea have had to do it by selling hotels though. How many more of those do they have to shift? It's not sustainable.

 

Man Utd fair enough but then imagine the same situation without PSR - they'd still be spending into a recovery.

 

Spurs fair.

 

I think in the end though, that if the pattern we're seeing this season holds up into future seasons, it's hard to argue that it isn't PSR. You could look at this season as merely transitional I suppose, but those transitions are coming around more often and taking a lot longer. The dominance of the top 6 doesn't seem as assured as it once did.

 

PSR doesn't allow for investment you might be able to make if you have an influx of money if you're stuck with sponsorship/commercial revenue from a previous owners regime, (hello mike!) PSR allows clubs without previous restrictions who have grown their commercial revenue due to onfield success from unrestricted access a free hit, clubs like us and villa have got to grow the hard way which short term they can do but we can't get the megabucks without success and the others up there have a great revenue supply and advantage from a previous system that has effectively pulled the ladder up by allowing them their investment but not others. It fucking stinks in the long run. 

[Rayvin 5889]

18 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said:

 

PSR doesn't allow for investment you might be able to make if you have an influx of money if you're stuck with sponsorship/commercial revenue from a previous owners regime, (hello mike!) PSR allows clubs without previous restrictions who have grown their commercial revenue due to onfield success from unrestricted access a free hit, clubs like us and villa have got to grow the hard way which short term they can do but we can't get the megabucks without success and the others up there have a great revenue supply and advantage from a previous system that has effectively pulled the ladder up by allowing them their investment but not others. It fucking stinks in the long run. 

 

Fair, I do get this.

[Dr Gloom 23385]

i wonder how long it will be until the saudis start to get "creative" and test the limits of the rules. chelsea have seemingly taken the piss unpunished and the saudis have the best lawyers in town 

[sammynb 3869]

2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

i wonder how long it will be until the saudis start to get "creative" and test the limits of the rules. chelsea have seemingly taken the piss unpunished and the saudis have the best lawyers in town 

 

They have had plenty of opportunity to do this, along with purcahsing players for the Saudi league to then loan to us, and they haven't.

Either they really want to do things without having any implications, like Citeh's 300 odd charges, hanging over their head or they really aren't that arsed and we are just another investment in their portfolio that has to wipe its own nose.

[Rayvin 5889]

8 minutes ago, sammynb said:

 

They have had plenty of opportunity to do this, along with purcahsing players for the Saudi league to then loan to us, and they haven't.

Either they really want to do things without having any implications, like Citeh's 300 odd charges, hanging over their head or they really aren't that arsed and we are just another investment in their portfolio that has to wipe its own nose.

 

I honestly think it's the latter with the caveat that it doesn't necessarily mean that we can't kick on or that they won't fund the important things (stadium for instance), just that the club and team still needs to work hard to deliver and PIF need to believe that there is a return on what they spend. I think I'm ok with that reality anyway as any success will feel earned rather than cheated.

[sammynb 3869]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

I honestly think it's the latter with the caveat that it doesn't necessarily mean that we can't kick on or that they won't fund the important things (stadium for instance), just that the club and team still needs to work hard to deliver and PIF need to believe that there is a return on what they spend. I think I'm ok with that reality anyway as any success will feel earned rather than cheated.

 

Agreed BUT they also need to realise that they purchased a club that needed future investment in the playing squad, so probably double of what they initially spent on players, just to get it up to scratch. The EH factor has minimised that to some extent but as the squad ages the needs become greater.
My only concern is we haven't gone the genuine revenue raising through ridiculous commercial deals like the big 13 clubs have. Sponsor for bog cleaner, fork sponsor, sanitary napkin sponsor, etc. If Chelsea can honestly get away with selling themselves their hotels and women's team, then our commercial team needs to be more adventurous within the lines.

[Dr Gloom 23385]

2 minutes ago, sammynb said:

 

Agreed BUT they also need to realise that they purchased a club that needed future investment in the playing squad, so probably double of what they initially spent on players, just to get it up to scratch. The EH factor has minimised that to some extent but as the squad ages the needs become greater.
My only concern is we haven't gone the genuine revenue raising through ridiculous commercial deals like the big 13 clubs have. Sponsor for bog cleaner, fork sponsor, sanitary napkin sponsor, etc. If Chelsea can honestly get away with selling themselves their hotels and women's team, then our commercial team needs to be more adventurous within the lines.

yeah, there’s loads of low hanging fruit that they haven’t explored. It’s not all stuff that would test the limits of the rules like the shit Chelsea have been getting away with. Where are the training ground/kit sponsors etc? We can’t just blame psr. I expected more from the commercial team as that’s how you get past it. 

[Gemmill 49252]

It's a wonder they haven't got people from the club scouring forums, cos they would surely appoint some of you lads CFO with immediate effect to benefit from some of your great ideas. 

[ewerk 32821]

Aye, look at the sort of deals Man U have. We’ve got plenty of scope to take the piss.

 

 

[sammynb 3869]

13 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

It's a wonder they haven't got people from the club scouring forums, cos they would surely appoint some of you lads CFO with immediate effect to benefit from some of your great ideas. 

 

[RobElliott 1763]

[Dr Gloom 23385]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

It's a wonder they haven't got people from the club scouring forums, cos they would surely appoint some of you lads CFO with immediate effect to benefit from some of your great ideas. 

I’m surprised Mitchell hasn’t hired you as his comms man 

[aimaad22 4583]

2 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

I honestly think it's the latter with the caveat that it doesn't necessarily mean that we can't kick on or that they won't fund the important things (stadium for instance), just that the club and team still needs to work hard to deliver and PIF need to believe that there is a return on what they spend. I think I'm ok with that reality anyway as any success will feel earned rather than cheated.

 

I wouldn't think so. Nufc doesn't make sense as a financial investment. At least not from the options the likes of PIF have. Football clubs, even successful ones, don't typically generate a lot of cash flow. Considering the risk they took for 300M at the time the main motivation could only have been the Saudi public profile in tandem with the other projects they've got ongoing. 

[strawb 4614]

Going out on a limb here but maybe they are waiting until we are a regular qualifier for European competition before they announce sponships, so that the value can be higher than if we weren’t? Mind blowing I know. 

[sammynb 3869]

12 minutes ago, strawb said:

Going out on a limb here but maybe they are waiting until we are a regular qualifier for European competition before they announce sponships, so that the value can be higher than if we weren’t? Mind blowing I know. 

 

FFS, it's the chicken or the egg.

Here's a though, make the agreements for ONE season (or less) then renegotiate once it is confirmed whether the club is in Europe or not. BOOM.
You're obviously joining the chinese mouse in his speedo agreement.

[OTF 8263]

3 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

I’m surprised Mitchell hasn’t hired you as his comms man 

What do you mean hasn't? 

[OTF 8263]

2 hours ago, strawb said:

Going out on a limb here but maybe they are waiting until we are a regular qualifier for European competition before they announce sponships, so that the value can be higher than if we weren’t? Mind blowing I know. 

 

That seems to be the gamble here, which will be wonderful if we get Europe but if we don't it will mean a regression of results and of our squad or in other words no progress at all and we become a less appealing target for the calibre of player required to meaningfully improve the squad.

 

Based on the inconsistency of our performances It's difficult to have any confidence that we will be in Europe next season. And if we are and it's the lesser European competition then financially is there enough of a boost to bring in players to kick us on and give us the squad depth required for extra matches?

[RobinRobin 12332]

2 hours ago, strawb said:

Going out on a limb here but maybe they are waiting until we are a regular qualifier for European competition before they announce sponships, so that the value can be higher than if we weren’t? Mind blowing I know. 

Or are they waiting for the outcome of the Man City issues around related party sponsorships?  Then announce Aramco St James' Park?

[RobinRobin 12332]

11 hours ago, wykikitoon said:

Corporate from Cally Wilsons box.  Spending shot up as the cunt is always there. 

Not always  

[wykikitoon 22494]

[Gemmill 49252]

7 hours ago, sammynb said:

 

FFS, it's the chicken or the egg.

Here's a though, make the agreements for ONE season (or less) then renegotiate once it is confirmed whether the club is in Europe or not. BOOM.
You're obviously joining the chinese mouse in his speedo agreement.

 

I suppose there's two possibilities here. Either you're a complete genius that has the answer to our PSR problem. An answer so stunningly simple that it's really hard to believe that seasoned professionals who know the rules back to front just haven't even thought of it. But for some reason they just haven't. 

 

Or it's an idea that is completely unworkable, and if course it's been considered and just as quickly dismissed because these people do actually know how to do their jobs, and aren't just half arsing it for the craic. 

 

I don't know, maybe we could ask Peter Silverstone if he has any tips for you on how to do your job properly? Maybe there are some camera or editing techniques that you just haven't thought of, and he's about to turn the game upside down. 

[sammynb 3869]

30 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

I suppose there's two possibilities here. Either you're a complete genius that has the answer to our PSR problem. An answer so stunningly simple that it's really hard to believe that seasoned professionals who know the rules back to front just haven't even thought of it. But for some reason they just haven't. 

 

Or it's an idea that is completely unworkable, and if course it's been considered and just as quickly dismissed because these people do actually know how to do their jobs, and aren't just half arsing it for the craic. 

 

I don't know, maybe we could ask Peter Silverstone if he has any tips for you on how to do your job properly? Maybe there are some camera or editing techniques that you just haven't thought of, and he's about to turn the game upside down. 

 

Or maybe like you and the Donald, they have been able to grift a living and never been called out???

 

As for Peter Silverstone, yeah maybe, he might have an idea or two but I bet it won't be enough to save me from being replaced with an AI in the next 5-10 years, so thanks.

 

You know who is more than likely correct with their comment, yeah not you?

 

5 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

Or are they waiting for the outcome of the Man City issues around related party sponsorships?  Then announce Aramco St James' Park?

 

Edited February 4 by sammynb