Eddies play shit n win or play well n lose mags vs Cole Palmer

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Haven’t read through the thread, but can’t really say I blame Eddie for any of this. He’s done magnificently since joining and surpassed our wildest dreams with the squad we’ve had, but that was never going to be sustainable given the lack of investment.

 

We have an average clunky keeper, 2 central defenders missing and 2 ageing and average central defenders playing. We have 2 kids and LB and RB who show great potential but probably wouldn’t be 1st choice in many other top teams.

 

Upfront we have one top striker who seems to have lost all confidence and belief and are spoilt for choice on the RW with either Murphy or Miggy. Again 2 players who wouldn’t get a game elsewhere.

 

Then we have a midfield where we seem spoilt for choice, but seems dragged left right and centre by what’s going on behind and in front of it. 
 

Howe has done very well all considered, but only so long you can polish a turd.

 

No one is coming to buy the deadwood so we are going to have to sell one or two of the “diamonds”, reinvest and rebuild.

[Gemmill 44805]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

This Bournemouth fan’s opinion is, rightly or wrongly, echoed by many NUFC supporters today.. if you look at the facts as to which players are available to him and why that is the case it’s probably not a decent comparison but the implied tactical inflexibility certainly is…

 

 

Its from this article in The Athletic…

 

 

 

I'd say wedded to a formation that isn't working is undeniable, but he's maybe learned his lesson about being too loyal to players. Trippier moved aside for the younger option (possibly even a bit too early) and Tonali eased in now ahead of Longstaff. 

 

I think our current problems largely come down to an ageing (at the back), underpowered (up front) squad, and PSR has to take a good chunk of the blame for that. Set free in the transfer window, and with more competition across the squad, it's unthinkable that we wouldn't be looking much better than we are now. 

[Holden McGroin 6581]

The Tonali deal has been a disaster. He seems likeable and willing to put the effort in but it’s just not working for him yet. I reckon he’ll back in Italy in the Summer.

 

The fullbacks are young and I think they’ll develop well but are prone to a mistake defensively. Botman would make a massive difference but I’m not sure he’ll come back as good as he was.

 

The Osulu business seems awful. He isn’t anywhere near a first team player and is already 21. He probably needs to go on loan to a foreign team in hope he develops quickly but we’ve poured £15m down the drain for someone that isn’t trusted to play. 

 

Howe just doesn’t seem to like/trust Barnes. I’m not sure he has ever completed a full 90 minutes. 
 

With tweaks we can come good but it’s looking like we are a mid table team this year. 

 

 

[Dazzler 9716]

The problem at Bournemouth was his team's inability to defend. He left Bournemouth, spent time with elite coaches and came to us with his improved philosophy that meant we had the best defensive record in Europe (if not the world at the time). The problem is that we no longer have the mean defence, and teams seem to find it far too easy to break on us. It's suicide having Schar and Burn high up the pitch when they both have the turning circle and acceleration of a bin wagon. 

 

That's partly on Howe IMO - I get he wanted Guehi to add a bit of pace to our centre back pairing but he didn't get him but has set us up as if we did anyway.

 

He managed to get a tune out of what he had at his disposal once upon a time but now when the system fails it seems like the only answer available is to change the parts and not the system which is a worry for me.

 

I'd love nothing more than him to tweak the set up and turn it around, I'd happily eat that humble pie - but I am not convinced he's going to do that.

[Dazzler 9716]

6 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

I'd say wedded to a formation that isn't working is undeniable, but he's maybe learned his lesson about being too loyal to players. Trippier moved aside for the younger option (possibly even a bit too early) and Tonali eased in now ahead of Longstaff. 

 

I think our current problems largely come down to an ageing (at the back), underpowered (up front) squad, and PSR has to take a good chunk of the blame for that. Set free in the transfer window, and with more competition across the squad, it's unthinkable that we wouldn't be looking much better than we are now. 

You say that about Trippier but until his injury he'd very much taken his spot back.

 

I can't help but think that was because Bruno just isn't cutting it with the armband and he wanted more leadership on the pitch because Bruno has pretty much stank the place out since he got that "promotion"

[ewerk 30555]

Quote

After nine Premier League games, Newcastle United are 10th for both expected goals and expected goal difference.

 

Their wage bill is the eighth-largest in the league, while in 2024 they were 17th in net spend.

 

Performances? September’s 1-1 draw with Manchester City aside, this has not been a side who have maximised what they have. Now, after Sunday’s 2-1 defeat by Chelsea, Newcastle are 12th in the table.

 

There is no sugar-coating the club’s reality, no underlying statistics with which to spin it. Right now, in every way, Newcastle are a mid-table side.

 

“It’s not where we want to be, but it’s the reality,” Eddie Howe said post-match, before adding, for levity, “I think a couple of wins changes the picture very quickly.” With Arsenal next up in the league, things might get worse before they get better.

 

Mid-table sides can be summarised with three characteristics: they are capable of producing elite moments, but contain fundamental flaws, and have a ceiling on their process. The defeat to Chelsea encapsulated each of these.

 

First the flaws. Howe claimed this was “a strong performance” and “another improvement”, blaming the defeat on mistakes at key moments, but this is a sympathetic interpretation.

 

Newcastle’s defence has been their best trait this season. Before the game at Stamford Bridge, they were joint-third for the fewest goals conceded (eight) — but were let down by a midfield that feels fundamentally unbalanced.

 

The first-choice trio of Bruno Guimaraes, Joelinton, and Sandro Tonali have been emphatically backed by club leadership. Guimaraes is the side’s best player, Joelinton has been given a new contract that puts him amongst the top earners, and Tonali, a £55million ($71.2m) record signing, came straight back into the starting team after his 10-month betting ban.

 

Joelinton and Tonali have not been producing chances this season — they average 2.19 and 2.12 shot-creating actions per game respectively, just 10th and 11th in the Newcastle side. Against Chelsea, they did not provide the level of defensive cover to justify that output.

 

Frequently, a lack of cover meant that a centre-back had to step out to mark either Cole Palmer or Nicolas Jackson, leaving the other Chelsea attacker free to exploit the vacated space. Palmer’s disallowed goal after three minutes came after this exact issue — but Newcastle failed to learn.

 

For the Palmer goal that counted, reestablishing Chelsea’s lead after 46 minutes, Alexander Isak was sloppily dispossessed on halfway — but there should have been some cover preventing the England international from jogging 20 yards under no pressure.

 

In attack, Newcastle still have problems on the right. Miguel Almiron’s first start of the campaign was always unlikely to add spark to a position that has needed upgrading for at least two seasons. Neither he nor Jacob Murphy have established an attacking relationship with Tonali.

 

“It’s in possession where we’ve been uncharacteristically off,” was Howe’s concise explanation of this season’s issues.

 

That said, an out-of-the-blue equaliser after 32 minutes showed this side’s latent talent. Mid-table sides have enough elite players to keep them out of serious trouble — the build-up to Isak’s goal was the best 20 seconds of attacking football Newcastle have produced this season.

 

With seven players touching the ball, Newcastle bravely played through Chelsea’s high press, initially through short passes in tight spaces, then through carries by Tino Livramento and Joelinton.

 

Livramento, who was tested positionally by Pedro Neto throughout, was particularly influential, playing Harvey Barnes into space, who in turn found Lewis Hall on the overlap. The Chelsea product, returning to Stamford Bridge for the first time, crossed for Isak to secure his first Premier League assist.

 

Still, however pretty it was, this was Newcastle’s first goal from open play for 470 minutes.

 

And so to the final point: Newcastle’s ceiling, and a game where they were reminded of the differences between the haves and the have-nots.

 

Newcastle and Chelsea had takeovers at similar times — October 2021 and May 2022 respectively — with wealthy new ownership groups both willing to invest.

 

With Chelsea’s far greater revenues, they have been able to spend far more under profit and sustainability rules — around £1.15bn, including around £220m this summer — while Newcastle had to sell two of their brightest prospects to avoid a sizable points deduction. Both Elliot Anderson, in the form of his career at Nottingham Forest, and right-winger Yankuba Minteh would have supplemented Howe’s first-team squad.

 

It led to a situation at Stamford Bridge where the first three names on Chelsea’s bench — Marc Cucurella, Enzo Fernandez and Mykhailo Mudryk — cost a combined £267m, while Newcastle’s comprised two emergency goalkeepers and free transfer Lloyd Kelly.

 

It felt pointed post-match when Howe spoke about his inability to shuffle the midfield: “We made changes to try and get back into the game — I’m limited sometimes with my selections on that.”

 

This can’t be purely put down to PSR. Newcastle have struggled to sell in recent windows; an area Chelsea have always excelled at. Equally, errors were made in the summer market — Newcastle had cleared some money to spend, but a failed pursuit of Crystal Palace defender Marc Guehi left them without a first-team signing for a second consecutive window.

 

Thoughts quickly go back to the two windows before the takeover — where Newcastle only signed players called Joe Willock, first on loan, then permanently — and an air of stagnation that had been blown away by Howe.

 

During that period, manager Steve Bruce described his remit as keeping the club “ticking along” — and was justifiably met with criticism. This is a fanbase, a history, and a city that deserves better.

 

But it goes to show that mediocrity is not sudden, but something clubs slide into. In recent weeks, previous windows have come home to roost.

Right now, Newcastle find themselves back there.

 

[GrahamTaylor5 880]

I think we are just in a transitional period right now and it is difficult to face. Problem is that we are in the transition at board level as well as the playing staff.

 

I love Schar but he is ageing which is why Howe looked for the replacement in the summer. Burn was never bought to be a first team player- he wasn't even a first team player at Brighton. 

 

The midfield seems to be suffering from the weakness behind it which then impacts on the top as well. 

 

I think Howe is still getting more out of the players than we saw before the takeover. People may say that is not hard, but it is also hard to measure. 

 

I am interested to see what happens in January. 

 

I would be shocked to see Howe go. Things are not going well but likewise it can be seen how much difference there would be with two competent (due to age) cbs in the team. 

 

We are still at a point where most of Man City's or Chelsea's second team would start for us. 

 

The fourth place finish shows what happens when things swing your way and, to be honest, if a few things had went our way we would be further up the table now.

[PaddockLad 17242]

2 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

I'd say wedded to a formation that isn't working is undeniable, but he's maybe learned his lesson about being too loyal to players. Trippier moved aside for the younger option (possibly even a bit too early) and Tonali eased in now ahead of Longstaff. 

 

I think our current problems largely come down to an ageing (at the back), underpowered (up front) squad, and PSR has to take a good chunk of the blame for that. Set free in the transfer window, and with more competition across the squad, it's unthinkable that we wouldn't be looking much better than we are now. 

Yeah that’s why I said the player loyalty thing isn’t accurate at the moment but it’s definitely a perception that’s out there.  
 

When Howe was appointed our dear friend and colleague ewerk, as he does, dug out 3 or 4 posts I’d made slating him. I knew what was going on down here in the last couple of seasons of Howe’s tenure at AFCB. We all know about the shit Fraser pulled in their relegation season but Callum Wilson also sat the final months of that season out in the physios room and many AFCB supporters were saying things about him that now sound very familiar. 
 

Do players lose faith in Howe’s methods after a while? Is/was the physicality required too much? Have our better players who are in a different league quality wise to the decent pros Howe dragged up from league 2 just acted a bit quicker than they did?… obviously am just speculating. There is no lack of effort from our players but yesterday we gave the ball away so much because in my opinion we looked weak on the ball when we came up against Chelsea’s press. When Chelsea challenged for the ball in midfield they invariably won it. That’s the difference for me between this season and the one before last. Not sure how you get that back… 

[Gemmill 44805]

Sorry I missed that bit in your original post. Interesting points you raise though. Something definitely doesn't appear right with effort levels across the pitch. 

[ewerk 30555]

5 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

When Howe was appointed our dear friend and colleague ewerk, as he does, dug out 3 or 4 posts I’d made slating him. I knew what was going on down here in the last couple of seasons of Howe’s tenure at AFCB.

 

[thebrokendoll 9188]

11 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Yeah that’s why I said the player loyalty thing isn’t accurate at the moment but it’s definitely a perception that’s out there.  
 

When Howe was appointed our dear friend and colleague ewerk, as he does, dug out 3 or 4 posts I’d made slating him. I knew what was going on down here in the last couple of seasons of Howe’s tenure at AFCB. We all know about the shit Fraser pulled in their relegation season but Callum Wilson also sat the final months of that season out in the physios room and many AFCB supporters were saying things about him that now sound very familiar. 
 

Do players lose faith in Howe’s methods after a while? Is/was the physicality required too much? Have our better players who are in a different league quality wise to the decent pros Howe dragged up from league 2 just acted a bit quicker than they did?… obviously am just speculating. There is no lack of effort from our players but yesterday we gave the ball away so much because in my opinion we looked weak on the ball when we came up against Chelsea’s press. When Chelsea challenged for the ball in midfield they invariably won it. That’s the difference for me between this season and the one before last. Not sure how you get that back… 

 

all season we've given away possession so cheaply, so fucking frustrating to watch.

I think there's certainly some credibility in the suggestion that our better players have lost some faith in howe's methods, very probably compounded by frustration in the clubs inability to strengthen in the last 2 windows, we are a team in decline, our 12th place more than warranted. the biggest surprise for me this season is gordon signing a new contract, I wouldn't have.

I think the club needs a massive lift to get back on track between now and the end of january, it could start by revealing it's intentions with regard to the stadium, new build or development, training ground, sponsorships, ideally ones which are a big fuck off to masters and the red tops, a couple of quick, decisive moves when the window opens in a couple of months time.

create some fucking positivity around the place because at the minute it all just looks like stagnating, or worse.

a few shipping containers plonked in the metro car park isn't good enough.  

[Gemmill 44805]

The fact Gordon has signed a new deal probably does run counter to the idea that the players are losing faith in Howe. I don't know what's going on though. 

[thebrokendoll 9188]

13 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

The fact Gordon has signed a new deal probably does run counter to the idea that the players are losing faith in Howe. I don't know what's going on though. 

 

probably doubled his wages, which would help.

won't stop him or others agitating for a move if we finish bottom half of the table next may.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

I just caught up with the thread and I saw things quite differently to most of you. I think we were unlucky not to escape with a point.
 

Isak guilty of missing two big chances and also culpable for their goal, giving the ball away cheaply. I didn’t think Chelsea were significantly better than us yesterday, despite the hundreds of millions they have skunked on players. We were always in the game and created chances. 

 

We also missed Gordon’s tenacity. When Barnes isn’t scoring he can look quite pedestrian. 
 

I’m struggling to work out why Tonali gets hooked after an hour every game. 

 

But I still see an improvement in performance levels compared to the start of the season when we were playing poorly and picking up points. Just need to sort out the finishing.

[Howmanheyman 33128]

5 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

Haven’t read through the thread, but can’t really say I blame Eddie for any of this. He’s done magnificently since joining and surpassed our wildest dreams with the squad we’ve had, but that was never going to be sustainable given the lack of investment.

 

We have an average clunky keeper, 2 central defenders missing and 2 ageing and average central defenders playing. We have 2 kids and LB and RB who show great potential but probably wouldn’t be 1st choice in many other top teams.

 

Upfront we have one top striker who seems to have lost all confidence and belief and are spoilt for choice on the RW with either Murphy or Miggy. Again 2 players who wouldn’t get a game elsewhere.

 

Then we have a midfield where we seem spoilt for choice, but seems dragged left right and centre by what’s going on behind and in front of it. 
 

Howe has done very well all considered, but only so long you can polish a turd.

 

No one is coming to buy the deadwood so we are going to have to sell one or two of the “diamonds”, reinvest and rebuild.

 

Is this the week where we can finally say that CT is getting the hang of this football lar....... Err....Actually....too soon......one swallow etc. 

 

Edited October 28 by Howmanheyman

[Gemmill 44805]

One mention of swallow and CT is transported back to that finger suckjob he got in Oz nightclub in 1983. His sexual awakening. 

[MrBass 2651]

42 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

One mention of swallow and CT is transported back to that finger suckjob he got in Oz nightclub in 1983. His sexual awakening. 

[PaddockLad 17242]

2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

I just caught up with the thread and I saw things quite differently to most of you. I think we were unlucky not to escape with a point.
 

Isak guilty of missing two big chances and also culpable for their goal, giving the ball away cheaply. I didn’t think Chelsea were significantly better than us yesterday, despite the hundreds of millions they have skunked on players. We were always in the game and created chances. 

 

We also missed Gordon’s tenacity. When Barnes isn’t scoring he can look quite pedestrian. 
 

I’m struggling to work out why Tonali gets hooked after an hour every game. 

 

But I still see an improvement in performance levels compared to the start of the season when we were playing poorly and picking up points. Just need to sort out the finishing.

I agree with a lot of that, there was definitely a point to be had at the end, Reece James essentially saved them in injury time with that clearing header. It doesn’t disguise how sloppy we were in possession due to not being able to counter Chelsea’s press.. 

[Dazzler 9716]

2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

I just caught up with the thread and I saw things quite differently to most of you. I think we were unlucky not to escape with a point.
 

Isak guilty of missing two big chances and also culpable for their goal, giving the ball away cheaply. I didn’t think Chelsea were significantly better than us yesterday, despite the hundreds of millions they have skunked on players. We were always in the game and created chances. 

 

We also missed Gordon’s tenacity. When Barnes isn’t scoring he can look quite pedestrian. 
 

I’m struggling to work out why Tonali gets hooked after an hour every game. 

 

But I still see an improvement in performance levels compared to the start of the season when we were playing poorly and picking up points. Just need to sort out the finishing.

I just remembered you were there. It all makes sense now.

 

[Chaser 1207]

8 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

Haven’t read through the thread, but can’t really say I blame Eddie for any of this. He’s done magnificently since joining and surpassed our wildest dreams with the squad we’ve had, but that was never going to be sustainable given the lack of investment.

 

We have an average clunky keeper, 2 central defenders missing and 2 ageing and average central defenders playing. We have 2 kids and LB and RB who show great potential but probably wouldn’t be 1st choice in many other top teams.

 

Upfront we have one top striker who seems to have lost all confidence and belief and are spoilt for choice on the RW with either Murphy or Miggy. Again 2 players who wouldn’t get a game elsewhere.

 

Then we have a midfield where we seem spoilt for choice, but seems dragged left right and centre by what’s going on behind and in front of it. 
 

Howe has done very well all considered, but only so long you can polish a turd.

 

No one is coming to buy the deadwood so we are going to have to sell one or two of the “diamonds”, reinvest and rebuild.

 

I'd agree he's done very well and that the project has stalled significantly before it's completion but I can't agree with the description of the personnel. Eddie brought all these lads in - Pope, Tino & Hall at significant cost to the budget. Only a few months ago we were lauding these as the future of England and now we are saying they're not good enough. We've seen them play FAR better than they currently are, save for Hall whose performances have stood out amongst the mediocrity of late. 

 

Our midfield 3 should on paper, be one of the best in the league. Isak is being touted for Arsenal and Barnes and Gordon are good enough for most teams pushing for Europe.

 

I know BDB has had games where he has been a real force, but I think him and Schar as a pair are too slow and it should be one or the other, but unfortunately we don't have that luxury. I think the defence is key to our way of playing and without it we are exposed as they were yesterday. The PL rules have assisted in causing this strorm, and I think our rapid progress in season 2 has meant a sizeable section of fan base has unrealistic expectations now or what we are capable of. We've spent a shit load but that was due to years of mis management to get some decent players in.

 

There's always going to be crictism of managers when things aren't quite going right, but I think we need to keep the faith and without tempting fate, "stick with the plan" and "trust the process". I'm hoping these PL rules are exposed for what they are and the Saudis can start spending the money they have. 

[Holden McGroin 6581]

BDB has been player of the season so far for me so it would be harsh to drop him but I’d imagine Lloyd Kelly is more suited to a high line.

 

i agree about the central midfield. We should be absolutely dominating in there but we’ve been awful in that area.

[wykikitoon 20113]

 

Do you have to have a beard to be on that show?

Some decent points on this tbf.  First time I've watched it in a while.

[wykikitoon 20113]

Gemmill won't like this, but the way they're wanking over 'that' pass from Palmer on This is football podcase is embarrassing.  Apparently 'Messiesque' according to Lineker.

[OTF 7295]

On 29/10/2024 at 03:48, Holden McGroin said:

BDB has been player of the season so far for me so it would be harsh to drop him but I’d imagine Lloyd Kelly is more suited to a high line.

 

i agree about the central midfield. We should be absolutely dominating in there but we’ve been awful in that area.

 

The effort he puts in is unparalleled. He's a behemoth in that regards. He does sometimes find himself well out of position and/or in a footrace he can't win as a result. I don't think Botman is that much faster than Burn, but positionally he is ruled by his head rather than his heart and this makes a big difference.

[thebrokendoll 9188]

On 27/10/2024 at 18:04, thebrokendoll said:

exit the league cup and drop another couple of places in the league in the next 6 days and he can fuck off.

 

who's this thick cunt here?