RobinRobin 9882 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 9 hours ago, Isegrim said: I would like to say how ordinary you lot look and that I am delighted. But then you lot would probably come back looking like Brazil 1970and win the tournament. Therefore I have to say how sad I am that you are looking so ordinary. I really, really hope you will improve in the second half 7 hours ago, Isegrim said: I am soooo disappointed. Sad. 5 hours ago, Isegrim said: I would certainly feel a lot better with Kalvin Philips playing for your lot. I agree that he hasn’t been properly replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9882 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 7 hours ago, MrRaspberryJam said: Southgate’s post-match interview on the BBC said we don’t have a natural replacement for Kalvin Phillips. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 27581 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 In fairness to Southgate he hasn’t had a whole lot of time to prepare for this situation. No one expected Philips form to drop off a cliff after two years of not playing football. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 37720 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 ewerk up early sniffing the loungers where those American lasses lie. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2632 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 I have to say that the combination of England's almost unheard of wealth of attacking options and Southgate's overwhelming commitment to making each game a complete snorefest, from an Australian perspective, is nothing short of pure theatre. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 15325 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Just heard lots of post match comments from the England players and the manager on 5live…..they’ve all identified what’s going wrong and they all seem to agree with what Shearer and Lineker were saying too (although the singling out of Kane was both bizarre and fuckin unfair I thought) about the pedestrian nature of play, the confused nature of how the press is being deployed and the poor use of the ball in general. It all points to them being woefully under prepared and frankly confused. The Calvin Phillips comment from Southgate was bullshit desperation from someone apparently clearly out of his depth. Which tbf is a distinct change from all the preceding tournaments where Southgate has been manager where the players have plainly bought into what was being asked of them . This with a remaining core of the team from Southgate’s first success in reaching World Cup semi in 2018 ie Kane, Walker, Tripps, Pickford (and if he was fit McGuire) When you think about it it’s fuckin bizarre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 37720 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) 29 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Just heard lots of post match comments from the England players and the manager on 5live…..they’ve all identified what’s going wrong and they all seem to agree with what Shearer and Lineker were saying too (although the singling out of Kane was both bizarre and fuckin unfair I thought) about the pedestrian nature of play, the confused nature of how the press is being deployed and the poor use of the ball in general. It all points to them being woefully under prepared and frankly confused. The Calvin Phillips comment from Southgate was bullshit desperation from someone apparently clearly out of his depth. Which tbf is a distinct change from all the preceding tournaments where Southgate has been manager where the players have plainly bought into what was being asked of them . This with a remaining core of the team from Southgate’s first success in reaching World Cup semi in 2018 ie Kane, Walker, Tripps, Pickford (and if he was fit McGuire) When you think about it it’s fuckin bizarre The captain coming out post match and saying "we don't know how to pressure, we don't know who goes and who stays" suggests there's just zero instruction from the manager. It's a fairly significant breaking of the ranks from Kane. It also suggests we're probably not far from a mid tournament summit meeting between senior players and the management. If Kane is right about the lack of direction, I'm sure that made it even more galling that he was subbed off early. Edited June 21 by Gemmill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 31951 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 (edited) Didn’t watch the game but the TAA situation is so strange because Mainoo, Gallagher and Wharton are all better options there. But the most obvious solution to me would be to play the lad who’s just had a fantastic season with the best club side in the world alongside Rice. This would allow Foden to play more centrally too. I know he plays as a nominal LW for his club but he takes up lots of no 10 positions. You can then play Gordon, and him and Saka running in behind means that suits Kane’s tendency to drop deep because those two can utilise their pace in the gaps that would create. It’s all a bit moot as I don’t see any hint Southgate’s going to do it. He’s lost the plot imo. Bit of a sad end to things if we go out in the last 16 / quarter as he’s a likeable lad. But looking at his post match interview, he looked like he didn’t even believe the shite he was coming out with Edited June 21 by Alex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 31951 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 6 minutes ago, Gemmill said: The captain coming out post match and saying "we don't know how to pressure, we don't know who goes and who stays" suggests there's just zero instruction from the manager. It's a fairly significant breaking of the ranks from Kane. It also suggests we're probably not far from a mid tournament summit meeting between senior players and the management. If Kane is right about the lack of direction, I'm sure that made it even more galling that he was subbed off early. If the manager’s giving it a ‘go out and play your natural game’ type of team talk, that’ll be a million miles away from the intricate instructions players will be getting from their club sides. Can you imagine Guardiola, Howe etc by comparison? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 37720 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 4 minutes ago, Alex said: If the manager’s giving it a ‘go out and play your natural game’ type of team talk, that’ll be a million miles away from the intricate instructions players will be getting from their club sides. Can you imagine Guardiola, Howe etc by comparison? Aye, the fact that we've played Iceland, Serbia, and Denmark in the last three games and largely been outplayed suggests all isn't well. You're coming up against managers with lesser squads but a well-drilled tactical plan, and it shows. I don't think the instruction is even necessarily to sit back, I think that's just the natural outcome of England not having an organised press and the teams they're playing against having one. They're pinned back rather than sitting back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 17834 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 You know what's needed? Games that don't have anything riding on them where you can test different players and formations. Games where you can rest large parts of your main team and try and blood in new players. You know, in a friendly atmosphere sort of a way? Maybe against lesser ranked teams like so that the pressure isn't high. Maybe someone should put that to Safegate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6284 Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 Moaning about a lack of press against the Danes is fucking ludicrous given Gordon and Bowen have the highest pressing stats in the league. Likewise moaning about a lack of attacking intent when Palmer, Watkins and Gordon have more goals/assists this season than most of our starting XI. Foden is the new Scholes. Being shoved out wide to accommodate Bellingham/Rice (Lampard/Gerrard) in the middle. He's desperate to play his best XI players and has round pegs in square holes all over the shop. Go 442, play Watkins alongside Kane (or Foden just behind him) Gordon on the wing, Rice and Bellingham in CM with Rice sitting. Then make like for like subs with Palmer, Bowen, Mainoo, Toney coming on in the last 20-30mins to increase the pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2632 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Instead of murdering football, perhaps Southgate might consider a messianic mission to save football that will muster up a Pavlonian response from the repressed collective psyche of the unwashed masses of the "Great" British public. *O Brittania!* Just a suggestion from one disinterested by-stander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam 510 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 11 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said: Foden is the new Scholes. Being shoved out wide to accommodate Bellingham/Rice (Lampard/Gerrard) in the middle. He's desperate to play his best XI players and has round pegs in square holes all over the shop. I read a piece on this in The Athletic the other day. Apparently by Euro 2004 a lot of fans wanted Scholes dropped from the XI because he never replicated his Man Utd form at international level. He was also picked out wide for England because he had done so quite a bit for Man Utd. Sven also wanted to play a diamond in midfield so he could have Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard in the middle but the squad talked him out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 6790 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 10 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said: We do. He's called Declan Rice. Play him in front of the back 4 if you must and allow the rest of the players to actually have a go at the teams who are MUCH WORSE THAN US! Aye, but Southgate means a natural replacement to play beside Rice because he has to have two holding players in his midfield. I doubt we'll ever see a game where it's just Rice sat in front of the defence for as long as Southgate is manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam 510 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 1 minute ago, Dazzler said: Aye, but Southgate means a natural replacement to play beside Rice because he has to have two holding players in his midfield. I doubt we'll ever see a game where it's just Rice sat in front of the defence for as long as Southgate is manager. He could play Rice and his Uncle Benn alongside him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 37720 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 17 minutes ago, toonotl said: Instead of murdering football, perhaps Southgate might consider a messianic mission to save football that will muster up a Pavlonian response from the repressed collective psyche of the unwashed masses of the "Great" British public. *O Brittania!* Just a suggestion from one disinterested by-stander. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2632 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 To be sincere for a moment, like Gloomy suggested (amongst others, I think) it does seem the simple solution to play Bellingham beside Rice, play Foden at 10, since he's determined to play there anyway given his propensity to drift inside, and then play Gordon on the left, a player who plays with exactly what the starting XI lacks, i.e., a simple directness in attack that determines to make opposition defenders life a living hell for 90 minutes. It doesn't seem likely though on present evidence that Southgate is interested in taking that approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 17834 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 4 minutes ago, toonotl said: To be sincere for a moment, like Gloomy suggested (amongst others, I think) it does seem the simple solution to play Bellingham beside Rice, play Foden at 10, since he's determined to play there anyway given his propensity to drift inside, and then play Gordon on the left, a player who plays with exactly what the starting XI lacks, i.e., a simple directness in attack that determines to make opposition defenders life a living hell for 90 minutes. It doesn't seem likely though on present evidence that Southgate is interested in taking that approach. This has been suggested by pundits and fans alike up and down the country. But it's not going to happen. Look at TAA number, he's been given 8. That says everything you need to know from Southgate. He will continue to play the lad there even if he scores 5 own goals in defiance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 6790 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 55 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: You know what's needed? Games that don't have anything riding on them where you can test different players and formations. Games where you can rest large parts of your main team and try and blood in new players. You know, in a friendly atmosphere sort of a way? Maybe against lesser ranked teams like so that the pressure isn't high. Maybe someone should put that to Safegate. Like the entire international league or whatever the fuck it's called. Where he could have experimented, brought new players through, tried to tweak things tactically to get the best out of the players he had at his disposal - rather than going with his shite tactics and making players play to it despite it going against everything they are good at. The most baffling thing to me is that he's looking for a natural replacement for Phillips. If that was the case then surely Longstaff should have been in the squad as he's quite clearly a similar kind of player, albeit a lot better than Phillips these days - and like Phillips, has no real business being a part of the national squad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 6790 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 10 minutes ago, wykikitoon said: This has been suggested by pundits and fans alike up and down the country. But it's not going to happen. Look at TAA number, he's been given 8. That says everything you need to know from Southgate. He will continue to play the lad there even if he scores 5 own goals in defiance. Aye, it's not an experiment he's picked him as a midfielder - despite evidence supporting the fact he's dogshit in midfield, other than the odd champagne pass he's woeful. He's Shelvey with a better hairline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 5351 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 I think you could pick apart every player from last night. They were all individually terrible. Even Bellingham. Kane and Rice seem to be getting targeted the most from what I’ve seen. Gareth has fucked his squad selection imo. Taking Shaw with no left sided defender in the squad was a huge error. Trippier is shocking out there offensively. Not his fault of course because he isn’t a left back. Chilwell, Hall and Mitchell are all better LBs than Trips. I also reckon it’s the wrong time to select Eze. He isn’t ready. Surely Grealish or even Rashford was a better choice than him. I could go on but when you look at the midfield or Rodri, Fabian Ruiz and Pedri…they are light years ahead of ours. I’d seriously consider Wharton if he sticks with two 6s. Gallagher is bang average. Mainoo is completely over rated. He might be decent one day but I’ve seen him get over run every game he has played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler 6790 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 3 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said: I think you could pick apart every player from last night. They were all individually terrible. Even Bellingham. Kane and Rice seem to be getting targeted the most from what I’ve seen. Gareth has fucked his squad selection imo. Taking Shaw with no left sided defender in the squad was a huge error. Trippier is shocking out there offensively. Not his fault of course because he isn’t a left back. Chilwell, Hall and Mitchell are all better LBs than Trips. I also reckon it’s the wrong time to select Eze. He isn’t ready. Surely Grealish or even Rashford was a better choice than him. I could go on but when you look at the midfield or Rodri, Fabian Ruiz and Pedri…they are light years ahead of ours. I’d seriously consider Wharton if he sticks with two 6s. Gallagher is bang average. Mainoo is completely over rated. He might be decent one day but I’ve seen him get over run every game he has played. Mainoo has a whiff of Willock about him. He's in a similar mould in that he's pacey and drives forward with the ball (at least from what I have seen). He should be a great sub to bring on to stretch a tired midfield and get us up the pitch. But Southgate would want him to sit deep beside Rice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 5351 Posted June 21 Share Posted June 21 Don't get me wrong, I think the best option is to play Bellingham (8) alongside Rice (6) with Foden (10) in front. However, I don't even think two 6s is horrific. Both should be pushing up with the play and making runs, that should also the allow the fullbacks to be really high (although absolutely pointless in Trippiers case). A problem is whoever we play at 6 doesn't have any world class distribution skills. Rice is a good screener and drives forward well (I think G.Nev was saying this as well) but he can't receive and distribute a ball like a Rodri or Bruno G. Wharton is our best bet for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6284 Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 41 minutes ago, Dazzler said: Like the entire international league or whatever the fuck it's called. Where he could have experimented, brought new players through, tried to tweak things tactically to get the best out of the players he had at his disposal - rather than going with his shite tactics and making players play to it despite it going against everything they are good at. Exactly, Southgate only dropped his favourites and brought in the likes of Mainoo, Gordon, Eze, Wharton a few weeks before the tournament. He clearly doesn't trust them enough to start games. What a waste of the last 2 years worth of internationals 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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