Sir Edward of Howe’s Paggered But Awesome Beige Baiting Beauties vs Lorraine Chase.

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

If he took Burn off for Tino as soon as it was clear that he was repeatedly getting done down their right hand side then we win that game.

If he did his homework about Luton then he would know that their RW is the fastest player in the league. Not sure what Howe expected to happen with that match up today 

[Dr Gloom 21915]

I don’t get Howe’s hard on for Burn. He can be solid at times but teams are targeting him. He’s decent cover at CB but we surely have to stop playing him at LB when Tino has shown he can do an excellent job in that position. At the very least he has to rotate him when we’re playing against teams with pacey right wingers. He struggled against Villa when they brought Bailey on and he was poor again today particularly for the penalty. 
 

I thought the Villa game might be a turning point in our season but the midfield problems persist. We lack the balance to control games the way we used to when we had big Joe in there and we don’t have any depth with Joe/Tonali out of the season.
 

We were crying out for extra bodies in midfield and up front but I suspect the owners have written off the season and told Howe to finish as high as we can with the current squad then we go again in the summer when hopefully the FFP situation won’t be quite as challenging.

 

Disagree with whoever said the squad needs a total overhaul. We didn’t turn shit overnight but we do need to sell some of the Mike Ashley era players, or buy better players for now rather than the future so the likes of Miggy and Longstaff are rotation options instead of starting so many games. 

[Holden McGroin 6582]

7 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Ciggy, Burn and MIggy the main ones.  Yes squad players, but not starters.  I am not saying get shut.

Its the lack of midfield options thats fucked us this season.  But, is Longy fully fit?  He's not looked great since he's come back.

Yeah. Those are the obvious three but  we’ve been crippled in CM. I’m not too worried about this next season (if we keep the gang together) We could have played a completely different midfield today  of Big Joe, Sandro, Little Joe today with Anderson in reserve. 
 

in reality I expect some ins and outs across the board though.

[Holden McGroin 6582]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

I don’t get Howe’s hard on for Burn. He can be solid at times but teams are targeting him. He’s decent cover at CB but we surely have to stop playing him at LB when Tino has shown he can do an excellent job in that position. At the very least he has to rotate him when we’re playing against teams with pacey right wingers. He struggled against Villa when they brought Bailey on and he was poor again today particularly for the penalty. 
 

I thought the Villa game might be a turning point in our season but the midfield problems persist. We lack the balance to control games the way we used to when we had big Joe in there and we don’t have any depth with Joe/Tonali out of the season.
 

We were crying out for extra bodies in midfield and up front but I suspect the owners have written off the season and told Howe to finish as high as we can with the current squad then we go again in the summer when hopefully the FFP situation won’t be quite as challenging.

 

Disagree with whoever said the squad needs a total overhaul. We didn’t turn shit overnight but we do need to sell some of the Mike Ashley era players, or buy better players for now rather than the future so the likes of Miggy and Longstaff are rotation options instead of starting so many games. 

he has been targeted before but he normally gets to grips with it. Today he had no answers (and Howe saved him last game by tucking him inside). 
 

if you aren’t pressing successfully in midfield then he is the obvious out ball for the opposition. 
 

I also think Eddie is sticking with him on the back of last season where we were solid as a rock. 
 

A really bad day for him today. It’s now a choice for Eddie. 

[Renton 21606]

57 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Ciggy, Burn and MIggy the main ones.  Yes squad players, but not starters.  I am not saying get shut.

Its the lack of midfield options thats fucked us this season.  But, is Longy fully fit?  He's not looked great since he's come back.

 

Is it? When we're conceding the amount we are, do you not look at defence too? How's that been since we lost Pope, which does seem to me when it all went to shit. We miss Joelinton and Willock, sure, but I don't think that's the core issue. 

 

Personally I think Longstaff and Almiron are not remotely the problem here, they were ever presents last year when we were outstanding. Every time either of them misses a shot people get on their back. People were getting on Longstaffs back today despite scoring a brace. My caveat here is I didn't see the game today, but I don't think losing either of these players will make us better. 

 

Burn is a different matter. Can't help feeling Howe is too loyal to him and Trippier sometimes. I don't understand why Livramento and even sometimes Hall aren't starters. But then, I'm not a football manager. 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

I don’t get Howe’s hard on for Burn. He can be solid at times but teams are targeting him. He’s decent cover at CB but we surely have to stop playing him at LB when Tino has shown he can do an excellent job in that position. At the very least he has to rotate him when we’re playing against teams with pacey right wingers. He struggled against Villa when they brought Bailey on and he was poor again today particularly for the penalty. 
 

I thought the Villa game might be a turning point in our season but the midfield problems persist. We lack the balance to control games the way we used to when we had big Joe in there and we don’t have any depth with Joe/Tonali out of the season.
 

We were crying out for extra bodies in midfield and up front but I suspect the owners have written off the season and told Howe to finish as high as we can with the current squad then we go again in the summer when hopefully the FFP situation won’t be quite as challenging.

 

Disagree with whoever said the squad needs a total overhaul. We didn’t turn shit overnight but we do need to sell some of the Mike Ashley era players, or buy better players for now rather than the future so the likes of Miggy and Longstaff are rotation options instead of starting so many games. 

 

Burn was woeful against Forest aswell, to get done by Chris Wood is shameful. At CB he can get away with his complete lack of pace with other players covering but at full back he's wide open to a speedy winger which we've seen this week. Tino is a complete different player and a lot more versatile in that position.

 

I couldn't believe how wide open the game was from the first whistle, both teams were stretched for the whole game. Surprising after our solid defensive display at Villa, we played some great stuff in the game and should have been more clinical, inches away a few times in the second half from snatching the game. Criminal conceding 4 at home to them though, I didn't think it was pen as the foul was committed outside the box.

 

Hopefully Gordon isn't too serious but it didn't look good with a moon boot on. Great to see Barnes back and on the scoresheet.

 

WE MOVE ON, HEADS HELD HIGH LADS

 

 

 

 

 

[Nefilim 14]

Across the two games against Luton, we just allowed them to compete and drag us down to their level. Credit to Luton, but conceding 4 goals at home to them is unforgivable. On the whole a truly pathetic display.

 

I really miss that Big Joe-Little Joe interchanging partnership down our left side we had last season. Think that was really a glue that held many other things together, and made us so good last year. We we're never amazing at the slow build up, but solid at the back, never out fought in midfield and hard to play through whether we sat off, or pressed higher.

 

They always seemed to take in turns in playing slightly higher, or slightly deeper/narrower - whilst both of them being able to press and close down either a RB, or midfielder. When we we're at our best it was like playing with 4 CMs, and 2 left wingers. Knock on effect of not having that is Burn is much more isolated having to engage that 15-20yards higher.   

 

Pope's miss has also fucked us obviously - but whilst we might moan about his kicking, Dubs being better on the ball than Pope is causing us bigger problems down the line. We're not a Brighton type side that can lure a team onto press us 20yards out our goalline, then be in behind their midfield.

 

Dubravka being better on the ball than Pope has actually made us far easier to close down when playing out. Pope would either not be given that extra pass back in first place, or boom the ball long. Dub's more comfortable on the ball, but we're just not suited for that - especially with sides allowing ball played into Burn before closing us.

 

All in all, we just seem to be far softer than last season, and easier to play against. Bruno, Longstaff and Miley should have been able to control a midfield 2 of Barkley and Nakamba/Lokonga both home and away fixtures, but as a unit where piss poor. Especially today, just shows how much they let themselves down as a unit on the basics - Bruno's outside of boot assist, his chance made a end, thought Miley was decent, Longstaff scores twice but robbed by Barkley.

 

 

[ewerk 30598]

Big Joe and his agent tonight discussing his new contract.

 

[Andrew 4748]

Not going to go into our deficiencies here, seems like that’s already been done to death.

 

What a match! Luton are absolutely staying up on recent performances, wouldn’t have given them a hope at the start of the season.

 

We scored a few great goals today, 1 and 3 in particular I thought were fantastic. Miles, Trippier and Longstaff for the first all did brilliantly, Longy in particular usually can’t finish for shit, took both his goals today really really well. If he did that with the good chances he gets just a bit more often he’d be some player, perhaps he’ll get a few now he’s got going.

 

Trippiers goal was an amazing finish, the control on it was world class, Bruno’s cross with the outside of the boot too was amazing.

 

Had the chances to win it too. Murphy I think it was had one he should have buried late on but there were a couple of others.

 

Hopefully we take some defensive lessons from today, would like to see tino given a start at left back. If we do that and can still attack like today we’ll murder forest.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13863]

I can understand Howe sticking with Trippier through a bad spell because, as we stand, he leads the league in assists from right back. Burn seems like a bit of blind loyalty from the outside but, at the same time, a lot of our set pieces, both defending and attacking, see benefit from having his height. I do think the way forward is clearly Livramento and, tbh, I’d be amazed if Howe doesn’t think that also but I do think it needed a game like today for the trigger to be pulled. Burn will know he was shocking and can’t complain if Tino is in against Forest 

[wykikitoon 20129]

Elanga will murder Burn next week if he starts. 

[Ayatollah Hermione 13863]

That’s true. Even more reason to drop him is that he got battered in the home game. Timo being on the left side will help compensate for losing Gordon’s play also 

[toonotl 2978]

Terrible performance in terms of controlling the game and all aspects of defending across the entire pitch.

 

I feel like there is a case to argue that Howe needs to develop his thinking around the selection of defenders too. He has stated that he likes to keep his back four selection consistent. That's fair enough. But for me there has to be more willingness to make tactical switches (like for example when your slow LB with the turning circle of the Queen Mary is up against the actual faster player in the league). He was quick on his feet against Villa in switching to a back five with wingbacks and pushing Burn inside to left-sided centre back. But prevention is better than a cure. Burn needed to be on the bench today.

 

As it is now, Burn cannot be starting next week. That's a performance that requires him to take a seat. Terrible penalty to give away.

[sammynb 3355]

Well that was a very Newcastle game, wasn't it.

Unfortunately I don't think wor Eddie is up to it tactically, good tacticians are proactive not reactive and Howe's reactive responses are ponderous. He obviously realised BDB was going to have an issue with the fastest player in the league and that's why Miggy started on the left, to help out. And you could see it in the amount of work Almiron was doing defensively, which not only stymies the team going forward, it's impossible for Miggy to get back when we turn the balll over cheaply and they launch it straight to their rocket. As soon as it was obvious he needed to change it up.

 

What was with the instructions for Bruno today? Against Villa he just sat in and we controlled the game so much better, as Ciaoman said, today he seemed to be running all over the shop, it just made it easy for Luton when we cheaply turned the ball over as there was a huge hole in front of our backline.

The team has also lost that calmness on the ball we had last season, gone are the triangles playing themselves out of trouble.

 

For me Luton's first goal they don't score against Pope, Dubravkia got caught in no man's land and stopped when he could have come for it, then he's not attacking the ball or on his line.

 

And in Miley, it looks like we will have a great player but it's obvious that after 45 minutes he's spent mentally. Yeah he can keep running but watch the difference in his decision making between the first and second halves - the game is passing him by when the team needs him, all part of why we are falling apart in the later part of the game. Not his fault, he's a fucking bairn playing men - the way that cunt from Villa, McGinn manhandled him being prime example. If Miggy wasn't injured, he should have been moved into the centre.

 

Disappointing and just when it felt like we stopped being the team to give the shite, lower half teams easy points, we've returned to being just that,

Edited February 4 by sammynb

[Dougle 3329]

1 hour ago, toonotl said:

Terrible performance in terms of controlling the game and all aspects of defending across the entire pitch.

 

I feel like there is a case to argue that Howe needs to develop his thinking around the selection of defenders too. He has stated that he likes to keep his back four selection consistent. That's fair enough. But for me there has to be more willingness to make tactical switches (like for example when your slow LB with the turning circle of the Queen Mary is up against the actual faster player in the league). He was quick on his feet against Villa in switching to a back five with wingbacks and pushing Burn inside to left-sided centre back. But prevention is better than a cure. Burn needed to be on the bench today.

 

As it is now, Burn cannot be starting next week. That's a performance that requires him to take a seat. Terrible penalty to give away.

 

Not that quick, took a goal to force his hand

[sammynb 3355]

Oh and nothing to do with the game and everything to do with Toontastic, the way some of you are carrying on at @LongTimeAdmirer it's fucking mackem like behaviour when one of them realises they have a cute teenage cousin and they follow them around trying to get a whiff. Put her on ignore or just flick past her post, it's fucking embarrassing.

 

And @LongTimeAdmirer, give over on the shite with Gordon, if you want to post here and not be seen as a WUM, realise that he's making a huge contribution this season. You might not like him but he's a NUFC player and for that as a supporter you should get get behind him.
I fucking hated the fact Barton and Bowyer played for our club but when they were on the field and putting in the effort, they deserved nothing but our support.

[Nefilim 14]

 

1 hour ago, toonotl said:

Terrible performance in terms of controlling the game and all aspects of defending across the entire pitch.

 

I feel like there is a case to argue that Howe needs to develop his thinking around the selection of defenders too. He has stated that he likes to keep his back four selection consistent. That's fair enough. But for me there has to be more willingness to make tactical switches (like for example when your slow LB with the turning circle of the Queen Mary is up against the actual faster player in the league). He was quick on his feet against Villa in switching to a back five with wingbacks and pushing Burn inside to left-sided centre back. But prevention is better than a cure. Burn needed to be on the bench today.

 

As it is now, Burn cannot be starting next week. That's a performance that requires him to take a seat. Terrible penalty to give away.

 

I think it could be a broader case of Howe adding something different to his backroom team end of the season too. It's something that will inevitably have to be done for Howe to now progress at the top end of PL management and keep us progressing as well. 

 

There is definatly a consistency that borders on a lack of flexibility in Howe's approach. For example, in recent weeks I don't think setting up as a 343/back 5 would have been the worst shout - Burn LCB, Tino LB - Longstaff/Miley, Bruno - Miggy, Isak, Almiron. Going back to Luton away, going into Forest on Boxing day. Both shite performances - we could have easily matched both sides up, and seen just as much if not more going forward with Tino playing on the left.

 

We wouldn't be the first or last side to play 541 against Man City or Liverpool away either, and I don't think we ship another 4 goals today playing Burn LCB with Tino LB in a back 4.

 

We're seeing zero benefit in having that extra man in midfield, and all the drawbacks of Bruno/Miley/Longstaff not being a midfield 3 that can control a game neither overun boss a game. All the while running our 3 remaining fit CMs all into the ground at once.  

 

 

Edited February 4 by Nefilim

[sammynb 3355]

7 minutes ago, Nefilim said:

 

 

I think it could be a broader case of Howe adding something different to his backroom team end of the season too. It's something that will inevitably have to be done for Howe to now progress at the top end of PL management and keep us progressing as well. 

 

There is definatly a consistency that borders on a lack of flexibility in Howe's approach. For example, in recent weeks I don't think setting up as a 343/back 5 would have been the worst shout - Burn LCB, Tino LB - Longstaff/Miley, Bruno - Miggy, Isak, Almiron. Going back to Luton away, going into Forest on Boxing day. Both shite performances - we could have easily matched both sides up, and seen just as much if not more going forward with Tino playing on the left.

 

We wouldn't be the first or last side to play 541 against Man City or Liverpool away either, and I don't think we ship another 4 goals today playing Burn LCB with Tino LB in a back 4.

 

We're seeing zero benefit in having that extra man in midfield, and all the drawbacks of Bruno/Miley/Longstaff not being a midfield 3 that can control a game neither overun boss a game. All the while running our 3 remaining fit CMs all into the ground at once.  

 

 

 

Five across the back, at home, against relegation fodder Luton - Big Sam Alladyce has joined the conversation.

BTW you obviously missed the Villa game, there was nothing wrong with the midfield three. Bruno just needed not to be running around like a "headless chook" and hold his position.

[Nefilim 14]

6 minutes ago, sammynb said:

 

Five across the back, at home, against relegation fodder Luton - Big Sam Alladyce has joined the conversation.

BTW you obviously missed the Villa game, there was nothing wrong with the midfield three. Bruno just needed not to be running around like a "headless chook" and hold his position.

 

If we end up pinned down as a back 5, yeah - fully agree that's the answer to nothing.

 

We've no midfielder than can sit and hold, and defend against transition anyway. We got fucked by Forest breaking on us and a back 4 dragged all over the shop, same today. Burn at LB has been isolated and looked a risk to liability against Kabore/Townsend, Elanga, Doku, Harry Wilson for 45mins, Bailey and now Ogbene.

 

Whatever XI that's left seems to be running on fumes when it comes to having that front-foot intensity, that always helped aleviate Burn's weaknesses which teams even then tried to isolate.

 

Playing with cards we've got left - I'm saying [Schar-Botman-Burn][Trippier, Miley/Longstaff, Bruno, Tino] and whatever 3 is fittest out of Barnes, Murph, Almiron, Wilson, Gordon is going to be the best approach for Forest, and wouldn't have been any worse 5 of our recent games we've dropped points in.

 

 

[Nefilim 14]

We basically defend with a back 3 anyway as Burn offers us fuck all going forward.

 

We don't have a midfield that can protect a back 4 and not leave them isolated and ran at like today or against Forest - at least setting up with Burn as a authodox CB we should be better suited and set up to defend at someone like Barkley robbing Longstaff and running at us.

 

Tino would be width on left side that can actually get across the half way line at attack, and we'd still have a front three of Miggy,Wilson,Gordon for example.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Personally think the reaction to this result is way OTT. Luton played a decent game yesterday and as their previous results show, are no pushover. 
 

They came and gave us a good game of football in a very entertaining open match.

[The Fish 10856]

15 hours ago, LongTimeAdmirer said:

Muppet 

Howe. Took. Him. Off. Because. He. Was. Injured. 

 

Using whoscored measures does not give a full idea of his efficacy. 

 

You should stick to wanking over pirouettes and leave proper thinking to the big boys. 

[The Fish 10856]

I know it's been done to death, but so many of our issues come down to who's available. Burn at LB with Joelinton and Pope in the team is a very different prospect than without them. 

 

Pope sweeping up would mean the pace of Luton's right winger is less dangerous and with Joelinton protecting that flank more the supply line would be choked. 

 

Burn does need swapping out because what he brings to the team is now less than he takes from it. 

 

No surprise that we look paggered after 3 games in 7 days because there's just no let up. Howe needs to make quicker changes to the side but anyone talking about getting rid is just overreacting to a bad result.

 

This season can just fuck off to be honest. So can LTA

[Alex 35077]

25 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I know it's been done to death, but so many of our issues come down to who's available. Burn at LB with Joelinton and Pope in the team is a very different prospect than without them. 

 

Pope sweeping up would mean the pace of Luton's right winger is less dangerous and with Joelinton protecting that flank more the supply line would be choked. 

 

Burn does need swapping out because what he brings to the team is now less than he takes from it. 

 

No surprise that we look paggered after 3 games in 7 days because there's just no let up. Howe needs to make quicker changes to the side but anyone talking about getting rid is just overreacting to a bad result.

 

This season can just fuck off to be honest. So can LTA

Joelinton and Willock down that side would probably see their RW having to help his fullback out a lot more too 

[The Fish 10856]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

Joelinton and Willock down that side would probably see their RW having to help his fullback out a lot more too 

Do you know what wouldn't help?