Fuck this shit, plastic oil CG cock sucking inbreds vs here you go mate we don’t really want the ball for fucks sake pass to one of your players cunts.

[LondonBlue 815]

Just now, Holden McGroin said:

Aye. Rodri clattered Bruno because he wasn’t happy with the challenge. 

 

Yep, I think the 2 of them have history from previous games.

[LondonBlue 815]

2 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

From my cousin last night,  brought up in Gorton….fair to say he was shite for both sides 😆

 

 

 

As far as i'm aware he's from Ashton and his declared team is Droylsden. But he's thought to be a Liverpool fan. He was in the Liverpool end in Carabao cup final against us. Many fans reckon they saw him and don't like him reffing us.

 

 

 

 

[Gemmill 46132]

They can't find someone who's NOT from Greater Manchester to ref a game in which Manchester City are involved though!? 

[Dougle 3408]

nufc.com match report:

 

The breakthrough came with United still moaning about the failure of Anthony Gordon to win a free kick on their left just over half way; Kyle Walker promptly punishing them as he again found space on the City right and played a low cross that Bernado Silva back-heeled in.

 

Interesting take

[LondonBlue 815]

14 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

They can't find someone who's NOT from Greater Manchester to ref a game in which Manchester City are involved though!? 

yeah no arguments from me on that one

 

i'd imagine there are loads of man united supporting refs due to their long period of success. hopefully we get some of that in the years to come. but the way the press and refs seem to treat us i doubt it.

 

[The Fish 10972]

19 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

Is there something in this?…. might at least partly explain why this has been happening. Thing is if you’ve got a 6 in there to stop the likes of this you lose something in the press

 

 

 

 

This is goals conceded (red) vs chances conceded (blue). Pope got injured in the Man Utd game, before that you'd expect us to concede around a goal a game. After he got injured the average amount of goals and chances conceded leapt by about 2-3 each. So, we're gifting more chances and conceding more from those chances since Pope got injured. 

 

Pope made about 2 defensive actions outside the box every 90, Dubravka averages around 0.5 every 90. (Distance from goal of those defensive actions for Pope, ~20yds. Dubravka's is ~11yds.)

Pope was making around 2.8 saves per 90 minutes, Dubravka has made around 5.35 per 90. The likelihood of those shots ending up in the back of the net has risen too. The Post Shot xG (the likelihood of the shot ending up in a goal given factors like area of the goal aimed for, power of the shot, keeper's position etc)  has gone from 1.09 with Pope, to 3.01 with Dubravka.

 

So Dubravka isn't just facing more chances, the shots he's facing are more likely to hit the back of the net.

[Renton 22022]

Interesting looking at the stats like that. Maybe losing Pope is one of the biggest factors in our demise after all. Whilst you get the impression Dubravka has improved a lot with increasing match fitness and experience, I think you always have to be wary with keepers who appear to make lots of great reflex saves, and think a bit more deeply as to why this is required. Not just that he doesn't sweep, but also the knock on effect of this rest of the team, from defence right through to attack. 

[PaddockLad 17713]

20 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

 

This is goals conceded (red) vs chances conceded (blue). Pope got injured in the Man Utd game, before that you'd expect us to concede around a goal a game. After he got injured the average amount of goals and chances conceded leapt by about 2-3 each. So, we're gifting more chances and conceding more from those chances since Pope got injured. 

 

Pope made about 2 defensive actions outside the box every 90, Dubravka averages around 0.5 every 90. (Distance from goal of those defensive actions for Pope, ~20yds. Dubravka's is ~11yds.)

Pope was making around 2.8 saves per 90 minutes, Dubravka has made around 5.35 per 90. The likelihood of those shots ending up in the back of the net has risen too. The Post Shot xG (the likelihood of the shot ending up in a goal given factors like area of the goal aimed for, power of the shot, keeper's position etc)  has gone from 1.09 with Pope, to 3.01 with Dubravka.

 

So Dubravka isn't just facing more chances, the shots he's facing are more likely to hit the back of the net.

So that space that De Bruyne ran into for his goal, do we think that space is a lot smaller if Pope is stood at the edge of his area and Sven & Fab are 7-10 yards further up the pitch? 🤔 for me that does have KDB running down a blind alley because I think Sven easily gets a tackle in  but there would be a massive gap in behind for Man City to exploit..

[PaddockLad 17713]

19 minutes ago, Renton said:

Interesting looking at the stats like that. Maybe losing Pope is one of the biggest factors in our demise after all. Whilst you get the impression Dubravka has improved a lot with increasing match fitness and experience, I think you always have to be wary with keepers who appear to make lots of great reflex saves, and think a bit more deeply as to why this is required. Not just that he doesn't sweep, but also the knock on effect of this rest of the team, from defence right through to attack. 

Earlier this month I said a keeper was a priority but now accept that it’s highly unlikely we get one with a similar skill set and quality as Pope in this or virtually any other January window. I was harsh on Dubs around the Spurs/Everton games when he first came in but he has improved hugely since then and was great at the weekend. But we’re now seeing Pope’s true worth to the side 👍

[The Fish 10972]

11 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

So that space that De Bruyne ran into for his goal, do we think that space is a lot smaller if Pope is stood at the edge of his area and Sven & Fab are 7-10 yards further up the pitch? 🤔 for me that does have KDB running down a blind alley because I think Sven easily gets a tackle in  but there would be a massive gap in behind for Man City to exploit..

Basically, yeah. If Pope is sweeping, everybody is playing 10yds higher up the pitch. Which means the defensive line if further forward, but more importantly, our press is performed further up the pitch. 

 

 

[PaddockLad 17713]

8 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Basically, yeah. If Pope is sweeping, everybody is playing 10yds higher up the pitch. Which means the defensive line if further forward, but more importantly, our press is performed further up the pitch. 

 

 

Even at the shitty Sunday league level we played at (same core players for about 15 years) where the defensive line should be was the thing we argued most about. It cropped at our annual Christmas piss up too, we’ve not played for the best part of twenty years  

[Dr Gloom 22187]

 

30 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Basically, yeah. If Pope is sweeping, everybody is playing 10yds higher up the pitch. Which means the defensive line if further forward, but more importantly, our press is performed further up the pitch. 

 

 

 

100% this. Dubs is a great shot-stopper, always has been, but he can't play the sweeper keeper role that pope has excelled at.

 

So we either need to replace Dubs with another keeper who can, or buy a number 6 for when Pope is injured. Or just do both. 

 

A more natural DM, who will sit in position, is a no brainer either way because it gives us another way of playing. 

[PaddockLad 17713]

3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

 

100% this. Dubs is a great shot-stopper, always has been, but he can't play the sweeper keeper role that pope has excelled at.

 

So we either need to replace Dubs with another keeper who can, or buy a number 6 for when Pope is injured. Or just do both. 

 

A more natural DM, who will sit in position, is a no brainer either way because it gives us another way of playing. 

If you play a Davey Mac figure you’re completely altering the core way we play by not having 3 on the press in the centre of the park though. If it’s a choice between a midfielder and a 6 who can play a bit this month I’d take the keeper tbh  

[The Fish 10972]

23 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

 

100% this. Dubs is a great shot-stopper, always has been, but he can't play the sweeper keeper role that pope has excelled at.

 

So we either need to replace Dubs with another keeper who can, or buy a number 6 for when Pope is injured. Or just do both. 

 

A more natural DM, who will sit in position, is a no brainer either way because it gives us another way of playing. 

 

DM is priority, for me. Not only lessens the pressure on the defence, but frees up Bruno and/or Miley to play further forward. A sweeper keeper is great, but if everyone in front of him is so exhausted/tentative that we're camped around our own box anyway, what's the point?

[Dr Gloom 22187]

33 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

DM is priority, for me. Not only lessens the pressure on the defence, but frees up Bruno and/or Miley to play further forward. A sweeper keeper is great, but if everyone in front of him is so exhausted/tentative that we're camped around our own box anyway, what's the point?

 

agree with the need for a natural DM but i think we got away without one when pope was fit precisely because he gave the defence confidence to play a higher line, closer to the midfield. all three midfielders could press and bomb on at times, knowing they wouldn't leave a massive amount of empty space behind them. 

 

this screengrab speaks volumes, and it's a situation we've seen so often since pope's injury. we were never so open, and never left that much space between defence and attack when he was fit 

 

 

 

[The Fish 10972]

6 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

agree with the need for a natural DM but i think we got away without one when pope was fit precisely because he gave the defence confidence to play a higher line, closer to the midfield. all three midfielders could press and bomb on at times, knowing they wouldn't leave a massive amount of empty space behind them. 

 

this screengrab speaks volumes, and it's a situation we've seen so often since pope's injury. we were never so open, and never left that much space between defence and attack when he was fit 

 

 

 

 

That's the problem though, we were getting away with it when Pope was fit. Get a proper DM and the gap you highlight above doesn't exist.

[Dr Gloom 22187]

Just now, The Fish said:

 

That's the problem though, we were getting away with it when Pope was fit. Get a proper DM and the gap you highlight above doesn't exist.

 

we finished fourth playing that way, so it was more than a a case of getting away with it. we looked solid in defence and we were scoring loads of goals - we've struggled to do either since pope's injury. i don't mind bruno playing DM if pope is in goal, for the reasons discussed, but we need a plan b. he can also influence the game more when he's further forwards like he did when he first arrived and he had shelvey playing behind him. 

[Holden McGroin 6787]

I think there are numerous factors.  Pope being out is certainly highlighted the defiencies in the line. Perhaps eg Ramsdale isn't the worst option on loan if he can sweep better. I don't recall him excelling at this when I've watched him though.

 

Miley is obviously inexperienced and wouldn't even been the squad if we everyone was available. He is basically 7th choice CM. While he is showing massive potential and even holds his own against world class players he can be exploited in the system. Its harder to get through the press when you have Big Joe there.

 

You also have to factor in tiredness. The team can't execute the press when they've got nothing in the tank. When you're physically tired you can become momentarily mentally tired as well.

 

 

 

 

[Dr Gloom 22187]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

If you play a Davey Mac figure you’re completely altering the core way we play by not having 3 on the press in the centre of the park though. If it’s a choice between a midfielder and a 6 who can play a bit this month I’d take the keeper tbh  

 

another way of playing though innit. at the moment we have neither option because of the injuries. i think the fact we're so strongly linked with KP shows the direction of travel on this. 

[PaddockLad 17713]

Just now, The Fish said:

 

That's the problem though, we were getting away with it when Pope was fit. Get a proper DM and the gap you highlight above doesn't exist.

In the pic that Gloom posted do we only have two pressing though? Wouldn’t a 6 just change the problem rather than solve it?… Wouid a player like Jorginho at Arsenal give you the best of both worlds as far as that can go? He’s hardly played this season as far as I can make out, hugely experienced, has won trophies domestically and on the world stage

[Dr Gloom 22187]

1 minute ago, Holden McGroin said:

I think there are numerous factors.  Pope being out is certainly highlighted the defiencies in the line. Perhaps eg Ramsdale isn't the worst option on loan if he can sweep better. I don't recall him excelling at this when I've watched him though.

 

Miley is obviously inexperienced and wouldn't even been the squad if we everyone was available. He is basically 7th choice CM. While he is showing massive potential and even holds his own against world class players he can be exploited in the system. Its harder to get through the press when you have Big Joe there.

 

You also have to factor in tiredness. The team can't execute the press when they've got nothing in the tank. When you're physically tired you can become momentarily mentally tired as well.

 

 

 

 

 

if we had two or three senior players on the bench against city, we might have gotten something from the game. 

[Holden McGroin 6787]

Im not sure there are many players like Davey Mac anymore. Even someone like Phillips or Alvarez are athletic enough to join in a press.

[The Fish 10972]

6 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

In the pic that Gloom posted do we only have two pressing though? Wouldn’t a 6 just change the problem rather than solve it?… Wouid a player like Jorginho at Arsenal give you the best of both worlds as far as that can go? He’s hardly played this season as far as I can make out, hugely experienced, has won trophies domestically and on the world stage

If I remember right, our forward lines were in attack and they caught us in transition, then they played a pass through the lines into that pocket of space vacated by Bruno who had joined the attack. A true DM would not be so keen to leave his position and would likely be staying pretty close to De Bruyne.

 

With a 6 you'd have a pressing trap further up the pitch, but the 6 only committing himself if the trap is sprung, or if the trap is evaded.

[The Fish 10972]

10 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

if we had two or three senior players on the bench against city, we might have gotten something from the game. 

Same has been true for so much of the season. Our starting 11 has been good enough to win most games, but as time wears on, our bench has proven too weak to manage the game. 

[NJS 4411]

I'd take a David Batty - I think he was more of a footballer than most people think so a player like that would be the best of both worlds.