What's next?

[Monkeys Fist 42449]

“ Hey Kathy! 
Get tae fuck ye mad owld roaster!”

 

 

PL’s dad, probably 

[acrossthepond 877]

I'll give a bit more of a religious view on this.

 

I want to preface by saying that I have absolutely no idea. I'm not one of those who thinks that my faith is the 100% gospel (see what I did there) and everyone else is an unbeliever, that I've got the straight goods from the Big Guy Himself and I'm on a one-way trip to paradise. I have no idea. I'm scared that it's all make-believe and there is nothing after you die - a light switch, like some of you referred to. Some days I believe that, and some days I don't. Most days I just try not to think about it and carry on living my life. 

 

This really first started affecting me in my first year as a teacher, when one of my students took her own life suddenly and unexpectedly. Before that I had never substantially questioned the certainty of heaven. However, her suicide (understandably) started a lengthy period of doubt. She was an innocent, a child who struggled with mental health issues the likes of which are still not clear and which we probably will never know. She was bullied over the internet by classmates and had an unsupportive home environment. What sins did she commit, that she should be condemned to hell for all eternity? Did God - and Islam states clearly that everything that happens is already ordained by Him - create her, only to have her kill herself and be denied paradise? That seems to make no sense. So I questioned myself for a long time. Ultimately I arrived at a conclusion that many other people have throughout history, which is Pascal's wager: that it is better to live as if He is real, because you stand to lose less than if you live as if He is not. What do I really give up by living as a Muslim? Pork? Alcohol? I have no interest in either. What obligations do I incur by living as one? Hajj? Fasting? Harmless, barely even an inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. 

 

So I decided to keep going, and I expect I will for the rest of my life. When I have doubts, I comfort myself oddly not with the Qur'an, but with Dune, where Frank Herbert wrote "What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" An ant is not aware, could not possibly be aware, of this conversation we're having right now...but nonetheless, it is happening, it exists. Theoretically an omnipotent God would be as far beyond us as we are beyond that ant. It's not impossible. So, it's not impossible that there is another life beyond this one. 

[Howmanheyman 33219]

I was haunted by Kathy Lloyd as a teenager, but it wasn't the hairs on the back of my neck that stood up. 

[PaddockLad 17262]

6 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

“ Hey Kathy! 
Get tae fuck ye mad owld roaster!”

 

 

PL’s dad, probably 

He used to shout at her if he’d been to the pub when the water ran through the old water pipes at night when me and my siblings were all in bed and it was just him and mum sat there watching tv. She appeared about 15 years ago at 2340 on 31st December. The old braced panel door to the lounge was latched closed but it suddenly flew open when me and mum were just sat there. We looked at each other and decided to pour her a dram . Dad came up from the pub to see the new year in 10 mins later and asked who the extra glass was for  

[Gemmill 44881]

I knew I'd seen that shirt somewhere before. Derek Acorah!

[PaddockLad 17262]

10 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

I knew I'd seen that shirt somewhere before. Derek Acorah!

Aah.. dear old Dekka…me and the now semi-permanent Mrs PL were charmed by his sparkling company on our Caribbean cruise in 2016

[Gemmill 44881]

What did you make of a cruise? Acorah notwithstanding.

 

I half like the idea of just being deposited in different places, but the prospect of having to sit on tables with other guests for dinner and running into the same people all the time would have me swimming for shore.

[Renton 21626]

1 hour ago, acrossthepond said:

I'll give a bit more of a religious view on this.

 

I want to preface by saying that I have absolutely no idea. I'm not one of those who thinks that my faith is the 100% gospel (see what I did there) and everyone else is an unbeliever, that I've got the straight goods from the Big Guy Himself and I'm on a one-way trip to paradise. I have no idea. I'm scared that it's all make-believe and there is nothing after you die - a light switch, like some of you referred to. Some days I believe that, and some days I don't. Most days I just try not to think about it and carry on living my life. 

 

This really first started affecting me in my first year as a teacher, when one of my students took her own life suddenly and unexpectedly. Before that I had never substantially questioned the certainty of heaven. However, her suicide (understandably) started a lengthy period of doubt. She was an innocent, a child who struggled with mental health issues the likes of which are still not clear and which we probably will never know. She was bullied over the internet by classmates and had an unsupportive home environment. What sins did she commit, that she should be condemned to hell for all eternity? Did God - and Islam states clearly that everything that happens is already ordained by Him - create her, only to have her kill herself and be denied paradise? That seems to make no sense. So I questioned myself for a long time. Ultimately I arrived at a conclusion that many other people have throughout history, which is Pascal's wager: that it is better to live as if He is real, because you stand to lose less than if you live as if He is not. What do I really give up by living as a Muslim? Pork? Alcohol? I have no interest in either. What obligations do I incur by living as one? Hajj? Fasting? Harmless, barely even an inconvenience in the grand scheme of things. 

 

So I decided to keep going, and I expect I will for the rest of my life. When I have doubts, I comfort myself oddly not with the Qur'an, but with Dune, where Frank Herbert wrote "What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?" An ant is not aware, could not possibly be aware, of this conversation we're having right now...but nonetheless, it is happening, it exists. Theoretically an omnipotent God would be as far beyond us as we are beyond that ant. It's not impossible. So, it's not impossible that there is another life beyond this one. 

 

Disclaimer: my preface is that I appreciate the honesty in this post and do not want to appear insensitive to other posters' strongly held beliefs or feelings. If you think you may be offended, please stop reading!

 

 

With that said, I personally find Pascal's wager as the ultimate cop out. I can't even get my head around how you can be so transactional and how you think an omniscient God wouldn't know this. I guess the harm comes from what you have alluded to and admitted burying - your belief that 99% of this board are going to hell, or at least that is what your religion states. That can't be a good feeling. Fortunately for you I guess you were born into the right faith, you could just as easily been born a christian, jew, or to humanists and you'd have much less chance of avoiding the fiery pit like the rest of us? 

 

I guess what this tells me is that religion forces us to decompartmentalise our minds. It's really not possible to be a scientist and be religious without doing this imo. Often, the more people think about religion, the less comfort it gives. My Dad converted to catholicism to marry my deeply catholic mother and I think really struggled to rationalise his religousity with his rationality all his life, worsening the older he got and the closer he got to death. I don't believe it helped him, I don't believe it gave him any comfort. Of course, I couldn't really discuss it with him in the way I am doing here. My Dad is dead. Gone. I won't ever meet him again. It's very sad, I still grieve my loss, but it's the truth and I have to accept this and make the most of relationships at this point in the spacetime continuum. Ultimately, the past is as real as the future, but I can't sense the past in the same way. We have one life only. 

 

On the other hand, I am absolutely certain that I am not going to hell, even if an Abrahamic God does exist, 'cos what type of cunt would give me the background and knowledge he has, let me live a relatively short life, and then torture me for eternity? I wager that doesn't make any sense at all. 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Renton

[Monkeys Fist 42449]

33 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Aah.. dear old Dekka…me and the now semi-permanent Mrs PL were charmed by his sparkling company on our Caribbean cruise in 2016

I’m surprised Derek hasn’t made an effort to communicate from The Other Side. 
 

It’s almost like he was a total charlatan and when you’re dead, you’re done. 
 

Also. 
 

Fake or not, it cracks me up.  

[NJS 4386]

Pascal's wager relies on you choosing the right god out of thousands as a bet rather than betting on believing in your choice. 

 

One of the tenets of most religions which shows them up is that say for example an amazonian Indian who's never encountered an outsider who never sins can't get into whatever afterlife is promised for lack of just hearing the message/being invited into the cult. 

 

I sometimes like to imagine a big picture universe where it all makes some kind of sense. Sadly I just think we're flukes of chemistry who should just make the best of it and enjoy life within the context of being a social animal before returning to the stardust we all come from. 

[Monkeys Fist 42449]

2 minutes ago, NJS said:

One of the tenets of most religions which shows them up is that say for example an amazonian Indian who's never encountered an outsider who never sins can't get into whatever afterlife is promised for lack of just hearing the message/being invited into the cult. 

 

The Jehovahs Witnesses believe/d that only 440,000, (or 44,000 ), souls could get in to Heaven. 
 

Once their membership passed that number, they sharp changed it. 
 

 

[NJS 4386]

I think revelation has a limit mentioned for armageddon too. 

[Renton 21626]

14 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

The Jehovahs Witnesses believe/d that only 440,000, (or 44,000 ), souls could get in to Heaven. 
 

Once their membership passed that number, they sharp changed it. 
 

 

 

Fuck me, they've put a cap on the afterlife? Worse than fucking Braverman that lot. 

[Toonpack 9409]

I don't believe there is anything after this, but on my deathbed I'm gonna convert to Islam for the virgins, just in case.

[The Fish 10857]

Afterlife? nope. Just like there wasn't any beforelife.

 

I understand and respect the balm that personal faith can provide, and I'm sure there is wisdom in those texts written over a thousand years ago, but if those ancient organised religions been started today, they'd be mocked as widely as Scientology is. 

 

My wife lost both her parents to cancer when she was young(er), and I have to tread very carefully when talking about the afterlife and mediums and all that. I get that, for her, the notion that their essence, their spirit, may still persist is a comfort. She even tells our lad that Granma and Grandpa are "in the clouds".  Like Mufasa. 

 

No skin off my nose, but I'll soon want him to understand that this is it. One life. Live it well and live it full. Like MF. Otherwise you'll soon be 42 and find yourself dicking about on a messageboard instead of doing something worthwhile.  

[Renton 21626]

2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Afterlife? nope. Just like there wasn't any beforelife.

 

I understand and respect the balm that personal faith can provide, and I'm sure there is wisdom in those texts written over a thousand years ago, but if those ancient organised religions been started today, they'd be mocked as widely as Scientology is. 

 

My wife lost both her parents to cancer when she was young(er), and I have to tread very carefully when talking about the afterlife and mediums and all that. I get that, for her, the notion that their essence, their spirit, may still persist is a comfort. She even tells our lad that Granma and Grandpa are "in the clouds".  Like Mufasa. 

 

No skin off my nose, but I'll soon want him to understand that this is it. One life. Live it well and live it full. Like MF. Otherwise you'll soon be 42 and find yourself dicking about on a messageboard instead of doing something worthwhile.  

 

Indeed, We need to start a movement to advance the teachings of MF. 

 

"The moden day church of the Monkey's Fist". Three word motto.

Climb, Celebrate, Clunge. 

I have already got the mark brother. 

 

[Monkeys Fist 42449]

57 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Indeed, We need to start a movement to advance the teachings of MF. 

 

"The moden day church of the Monkey's Fist". Three word motto.

Climb, Celebrate, Clunge. 

I have already got the mark brother. 

 

[Blastronaut 1333]

6 hours ago, sammynb said:

so if you're a jihadist you get your 61 virgins (sorry but really who wants a virgin?)

 

Who the fuck wants that many sets of in-laws more like. 

 

4 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

I was brought up in a haunted house. My old man knew the ghost; her name was Kathy, she was jilted at the altar sometime around the early 1900s and by the time my old man was a boy in the 40s she was an eccentric old lady in a crimson shawl who lived alone in the house he bought as our family home in 1980.

The most terrifying occurrence of the haunting was when a picture flew off the wall and smashed over the head of my sister one afternoon in the early 80s. Kathy was blatantly jealous of pretty young girls as things started up again in the 2000s when my sister’s daughters were there. Not as bad this time though, Kathy had obviously mellowed with age..  

 

When Dad was an apprentice he worked for Kathy’s nephew and his widow was still alive throughout my teens and she’d regale us with tales of what a strange old bird Kathy was… she knew it was haunted before we moved in. Sometime after he retired dad once saw Kathy in the dressing table mirror of the bedroom when he was sat on the edge of the bed putting his shoes on..  he sensed something and looked up and saw her in the mirror just passing through the room in her red shawl…

 

 

 

Speaking of in-laws, my father in-law is absolutely convinced they exist, the one family members house on that side I think most of that lot are convinced is haunted. I'd venture most ghost sightings can  probably be chalked off as some kind of halucinations, probably hypnagogia or something similar and that for whatever reason certain houses or environments make people more likely to slip into states where that can happen than others. Fuck knows though.

 

Only thing resembling a ghost story I have is from back when I was about 6 and we'd just moved house. One of the first nights my dad's stereo randomly turned itself on in the middle of night when everyone was asleep. Parents checked on us to make sure we were okay and didnt get a fright. Faulty stereo or something would surely explain it, but no my little sister who would only be three or 4 at the time sits up in bed and says "it's okay, the old lady said it wont happen again, she's gone now." 

Wee weirdo that she was. 

[wykikitoon 20145]

Just leaving the office. Few of us off for a beer. Our office manager takes a call. Her mums just passed. 😢 

[Monkeys Fist 42449]

4 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Just leaving the office. Few of us off for a beer. Our office manager takes a call. Her mums just passed. 😢 

Why didn’t she pop in for a pint? 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too soon? 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

5 hours ago, Renton said:

 

This. Dreamless sleep. If you've ever had a general anesthetic, they inject you with propofol or whatever, and get you to count backwards from 10. You get to 7, and you're out. You wake up somewhere else, in a recovery room. You have literally no concept of the time that has passed, a whole section of your life has been erased. To me it is obvious death is the same, only this time you don't wake up. 

 

You can bang on about pseudo-scientific bullshit like energies etc. if it makes you feel better. Doesn't change the reality the neurones in your brain have stopped firing impulses and your conciousness is no more. There is zero mechanism or evidence for the existrence of a soul that outlives death. Historically it's been used as a comfort blanket to take away from the real miseries of existence and then used as a tool by churches of all denominations to control us. They have no place in the 21st century.

I don't get why people think there must be some greater meaning to life either. Why does there have to be? Life is amazing as it is, just enjoy it as much as you can with the confines of your own situation - physically, menatally, and financially. 

There are theories in cosmolgy about the existence of a multiverse where the conditions will be exactly the same for you to exist elsewhere. I have thought a lot about this in the past but still don't know what it means. Nothing probably, I don't need that comfort blanket now either though.

 

Do I fear death? Yes, a bit, I think we all do. No more  existence. Pretty massive. But then, without getting too deep in cosmology again, if spacetime is a continuum in the way we think it is, it's like asking if I fear the time before I was born. Of course, the difference is, I fear the opportunities lost, the cessation of my relationships with friends and family, and just being sentient. That makes me sad but I have to accept it.

 

What I really, really fear, after witnessing the passing of my sister and father, is the dying process itself. I also fear castastrophic disability more than death. Funnily enough, the line from the Pogues "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" comes to mind. "Never knew there were worse things than dying". There are many, many things worse than dying.

 

There. Renton's views on the cheery subject of death. Let us enjoy life and let death be as good as it can be. We all die. Death makes us equal. Being dead itself is nothing to fear. 

 

 

[Ayatollah Hermione 13869]

We’re all computer code in the simulation so you just get assimilated into the singularity 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

This is another good one. Jefferies isn’t for the easily offended and some of his misogynist stuff makes me wince at times but occasionally he absolutely nails it. 
 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Dr Gloom

[wykikitoon 20145]

27 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Why didn’t she pop in for a pint? 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too soon? 

Ill cum fort her later 😜