What's next?

[sammynb 3355]

I've been thinking about this a bit as I'm now of the age where heros and those who have had influence upon my life, good and bad, are dying with more regularity than when you are younger.

And of course that makes you question your own mortality?

So, I suppose the question is, what's yout thoughts on what's next, once you make the Yes Gemmill thread?

I was dragged up Catholic/Christian but I have no time for their beliefs, that there is a heaven with a white middle eastern Jewish chap, his dad and cohorts, welcoming the likes of Trump and the world's new believers.

Terry Pratchet had this wonderful notion in his discworld books, that death himself collects you but after that you get whatever you believe in, so if you're a jihadist you get your 61 virgins (sorry but really who wants a virgin?), if you think it's hell then pack your sunscreen, nothing is nothing, etc etc - which is great but it's too easy and there are too many selfish people for death to agree to that.

I'm more of there's fuck all, we just go back to the dirt of the earth that made us - which also kind of makes you think what's the fucking point, nihilists are never the life of the party.

Some days I look at it and think, well all creatures have energy and energy cannot be destroyed, it just transfers to a different form of energy, so maybe our energy is just redistributed to other creatures born when we pass, yes it's a bit close to reincarnation but it could also explain why so many people all seem to think they were Cleopatra in a previous life.

No one is looking to be converted to the Hillsong church you're a member of, so please remember that but I am interested in what others think?

[ewerk 30610]

Someone hasn't taken Jimmy Corkhill's death very well.

[Gemmill 44879]

There's absolutely zip. It's like when you go under for an operation.

 

Unless you go to hell, in which case it's a sammynb playlist on repeat for you.

[sammynb 3355]

1 minute ago, Gemmill said:

There's absolutely zip. It's like when you go under for an operation.

 

Unless you go to hell, in which case it's a sammynb playlist on repeat for you.

 

Lol.

CUNT!

[sammynb 3355]

15 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Someone hasn't taken Jimmy Corkhill's death very well.

 

It was more Geordie Walker's but that's kind of the point.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

heaven sounds absolutely shit - imagine being stuck with your family for all eternity. 

[ewerk 30610]

I'm not sure what heaven is but hell is an eternity spent in a small room with Gemmill as he continuously tries and fails to get the hang of Smoke on the Water.

[sammynb 3355]

Well this is almost as successful as Scotty's singing into your phone game.

[Monkeys Fist 42444]

1 minute ago, sammynb said:

Well this is almost as successful as Scotty's singing into your phone game.

True hell

[spongebob toonpants 3996]

Let the ridicule begin...

 

I do some TM, and in reading round the subject yer Buddhists believe on some level consciousness is all drawn from the same pool of energy, and they use the analogy that life force is like the ocean and an individual life is like a wave rolling in, then rolling back into the sea.

I'm not in any way a believer in any god(s), but I quite like the simplicity of that thought

[sammynb 3355]

5 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

Let the ridicule begin...

 

I do some TM

 

Is that like Sting not being allowed to cum?

 

Seriously though, it is a nice thought but how does that account for all the cunts in the world?

They argue that it takes a number of lives lived, to reach that level of consciousness, don't they?

[spongebob toonpants 3996]

9 minutes ago, sammynb said:

 

Is that like Sting not being allowed to cum?

 

Seriously though, it is a nice thought but how does that account for all the cunts in the world?

They argue that it takes a number of lives lived, to reach that level of consciousness, don't they?

The only thing I've got in common with Sting is that my wife won't shag him.

 

I don't follow the tenets of Buddhism in any way but this reminded me of the ocean analogy

1 hour ago, sammynb said:

Some days I look at it and think, well all creatures have energy and energy cannot be destroyed

[Meenzer 15526]

I agree that believing there's nothing afterwards makes it hard to avoid being a grim nihilist sometimes. I try and spin it into a more positive "none of this matters so why worry?" where I can, but that's easier said than done.

 

More than what comes after it, I wish we as a society could engage more effectively with the end of life. My mother is currently slowly - too slowly - succumbing to the prize-winning combination of Parkinson's and dementia, and (in addition to sadness about what's happening in the here and now, obviously) it makes me worry about my own eventual decline, because I don't want to end up being a burden to anyone. I'd love to think that, by then, we'll have managed to come up with responsible and non-traumatic ways of deciding when to flip our own 'off' switch that don't have massive financial or legal implications, but it seems unlikely. The two things probably aren't unconnected, though - if there weren't as many people worried about doing the right thing to get the afterlife they imagine for themselves, we'd probably have a more grown-up relationship with death in the first place.

[wykikitoon 20141]

Interesting thread @sammynb

Ever since I was younger I have always been aware of death.  My dads only sister passed when i was about 8.  My dad being an old school paddy didn't ever speak about his feelings.  But when she passed he sat and listened to Elton John Sacrifice over and over and it broke my heart.  It was from then on I would have nightmares about passing.

As everyone we have had loved ones pass.  I just try and look at the good times and try and filter out the 'what if, when' and just concentrate on the now. 

During the first year of Covid I got a water infection and pissed blood.  Until I could be seen by urology I was convinced I had cancer or what not.  I was checking out my bollocks (which isn't bad) daily and the lot.  I lost 5kg in weight in a month with stress.  It was nothing but because its rare for blokes, especially my age to get water infections I was looking on the shit side.

It's funny when people say the don't believe in god or the like.  Yet at times of serious pain, they seem to pray.

I was brought up a Catholic and do hold some belief still.  I don't know what, but it keeps me going at certain times I suppose.

[spongebob toonpants 3996]

Sorry TM transcendental meditation not Sting tantric masculinity

[Renton 21625]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

There's absolutely zip. It's like when you go under for an operation.

 

This. Dreamless sleep. If you've ever had a general anesthetic, they inject you with propofol or whatever, and get you to count backwards from 10. You get to 7, and you're out. You wake up somewhere else, in a recovery room. You have literally no concept of the time that has passed, a whole section of your life has been erased. To me it is obvious death is the same, only this time you don't wake up. 

 

You can bang on about pseudo-scientific bullshit like energies etc. if it makes you feel better. Doesn't change the reality the neurones in your brain have stopped firing impulses and your conciousness is no more. There is zero mechanism or evidence for the existrence of a soul that outlives death. Historically it's been used as a comfort blanket to take away from the real miseries of existence and then used as a tool by churches of all denominations to control us. They have no place in the 21st century.

I don't get why people think there must be some greater meaning to life either. Why does there have to be? Life is amazing as it is, just enjoy it as much as you can with the confines of your own situation - physically, menatally, and financially. 

There are theories in cosmolgy about the existence of a multiverse where the conditions will be exactly the same for you to exist elsewhere. I have thought a lot about this in the past but still don't know what it means. Nothing probably, I don't need that comfort blanket now either though.

 

Do I fear death? Yes, a bit, I think we all do. No more  existence. Pretty massive. But then, without getting too deep in cosmology again, if spacetime is a continuum in the way we think it is, it's like asking if I fear the time before I was born. Of course, the difference is, I fear the opportunities lost, the cessation of my relationships with friends and family, and just being sentient. That makes me sad but I have to accept it.

 

What I really, really fear, after witnessing the passing of my sister and father, is the dying process itself. I also fear castastrophic disability more than death. Funnily enough, the line from the Pogues "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda" comes to mind. "Never knew there were worse things than dying". There are many, many things worse than dying.

 

There. Renton's views on the cheery subject of death. Let us enjoy life and let death be as good as it can be. We all die. Death makes us equal. Being dead itself is nothing to fear. 

 

 

[Alex 35082]

I think the only afterlife is the fungus / microbes / whatever that break you down if you’re buried. You’re physically transformed into something else but your life force or whatever you want to call it ends. I don’t know but that’s what I believe. Sometimes I’m at peace with it, sometimes it really upsets me when I think about it. I just found out an old friend has breast cancer. Prognosis is good but it’s less than a year after cancer took her mother. So I’m in the upset phase 

[sammynb 3355]

14 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said:

Sorry TM transcendental meditation not Sting tantric masculinity

Glad you explained that!

 

@Meenzer sorry to read about your mum (hope there is some relief and respite for you and your family)  but that’s kind of another reason why this subject has been taking up way too much of my thinking of late. I suspect my mother is unwell also, just little things and although I know she still holds some religion, I also know she has stockpiled enough oxy to kill a horse and she refuses to fade out. So where does that place her and her faith? 
 

28 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Interesting thread @sammynb

Ever since I was younger I have always been aware of death. 

It's funny when people say the don't believe in god or the like.  Yet at times of serious pain, they seem to pray.

I was brought up a Catholic and do hold some belief still.  I don't know what, but it keeps me going at certain times I suppose.

 

Me too, my older brother passed when I was young, so it’s always been present growing up and then when you get to your teens grandparents start to pass. I had a good but very annoying mate who died in an accident when we were 13. His mum was very catholic and for years would burst into tears during mass and ask why god took her boy? Religion had no answer and certainly no comfort for her in the end. Sad story, my last words to him were to tell him to fuck off because he was being annoying, what do you do?

My cunt of a father was a believer, didn’t give a flying fuck how many cardinal sins he committed but always said he believed just in case. How and why should that work? Do what’s right and honourable in this life and get some reward in the next one, I kind of get. But cheat, lie, fuck around and steal and all shall be forgiven, fuck off. He would have been praying in the end.

 

I’m starting to think nihilism might be an answer.

[strawb 4251]

Thought about this a lot in the last few years, both cancer diagnoses made me think I was a goner. And I sat with my dad while he took his last breath.

 

Im generally comfortable with it being like a light switch turning off and that’s it. 
 

I don’t think people are generally afraid of being dead, they are afraid of how they will die. Will it hurt etc. and worry for the people they are going to leave behind, for the last week or so while he was campos mentis my dad tried spent his time telling me where his money was and how to access it, passwords for accounts etc. so I could sort it all for my mam. It’s a strange way to spend the last few days of your life but it give him some comfort I suppose 

[Gemmill 44879]

1 hour ago, spongebob toonpants said:

Let the ridicule begin...

 

I do some TM, and in reading round the subject yer Buddhists believe on some level consciousness is all drawn from the same pool of energy, and they use the analogy that life force is like the ocean and an individual life is like a wave rolling in, then rolling back into the sea.

I'm not in any way a believer in any god(s), but I quite like the simplicity of that thought

 

I learned that. There's a bloke in Newcastle teaches it. My mam had learned when she was struggling with my sister not being well, and it sounded interesting so I gave it a go too.

 

I don't use it anymore but I got a bit out of it at the time and like you say, there's comforting theory around stuff like that.

[sammynb 3355]

12 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

There. Renton's views on the cheery subject of death. Let us enjoy life and let death be as good as it can be. We all die. Death makes us equal. Being dead itself is nothing to fear. 

 

Thanks @Renton, I was interested in your thoughts, (and Alex’s but I knew they’d be chilled) - you’ve seen too much of it recently and it also would have crossed your mind.

 

Your last line reminds me of that joke/quip - when you die you don’t know about it, only those you leave suffer, same goes for stupidity.

[Gemmill 44879]

57 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

I agree that believing there's nothing afterwards makes it hard to avoid being a grim nihilist sometimes. I try and spin it into a more positive "none of this matters so why worry?" where I can, but that's easier said than done.

 

More than what comes after it, I wish we as a society could engage more effectively with the end of life. My mother is currently slowly - too slowly - succumbing to the prize-winning combination of Parkinson's and dementia, and (in addition to sadness about what's happening in the here and now, obviously) it makes me worry about my own eventual decline, because I don't want to end up being a burden to anyone. I'd love to think that, by then, we'll have managed to come up with responsible and non-traumatic ways of deciding when to flip our own 'off' switch that don't have massive financial or legal implications, but it seems unlikely. The two things probably aren't unconnected, though - if there weren't as many people worried about doing the right thing to get the afterlife they imagine for themselves, we'd probably have a more grown-up relationship with death in the first place.

 

Sorry to hear about your mam, mate.

 

My gran has been in hospital this past week. She's 96 and just not doing great, and she was saying to my mam that the problem is she's lived too long and she doesn't want to be here any more. Made me think that an off switch is required too. No one should have to suffer beyond what they've got the stomach for.

[Gemmill 44879]

@Renton

 

Think I've been under general anaesthetic three times and I thought it was fucking class. Exactly as you described, a dreamless sleep, one minute you're counting and the next minute you're waking up somewhere else entirely.

 

I'm up for that minus the waking up when the time comes.

[wykikitoon 20141]

1 minute ago, strawb said:

Thought about this a lot in the last few years, both cancer diagnoses made me think I was a goner. And I sat with my dad while he took his last breath.

 

Im generally comfortable with it being like a light switch turning off and that’s it. 
 

I don’t think people are generally afraid of being dead, they are afraid of how they will die. Will it hurt etc. and worry for the people they are going to leave behind, for the last week or so while he was campos mentis my dad tried spent his time telling me where his money was and how to access it, passwords for accounts etc. so I could sort it all for my mam. It’s a strange way to spend the last few days of your life but it give him some comfort I suppose 

That last paragraph, first sentence, you're right.  I also think a lot are afraid about those and what is left behind.

My wife and I have had wills since we bought our first house together.  We don't have any bairns at all.  Yet we have friends with barins and they don't have any wills at all.  I find that absolutely mind blowing.  People insure their cars and houses (well most do) but don't insure their wishes.   My wife lost her best mate two years ago.  She was 52 and suffered with cancer for 3 years.  She was a very well read women and a decent lawyer.  Yet didn't have a will.  She again had no bairns or immediate family.  She wrote on a bit of A4 what she wanted to be done with her estate with a note saying she knows it needs witnessing and passing to a solicitor to a formal will.  It never did.  It's taken almost 2 years to sort the jumble of stuff she had left.  It's painful for those left behind.

[PaddockLad 17260]

I was brought up in a haunted house. My old man knew the ghost; her name was Kathy, she was jilted at the altar sometime around the early 1900s and by the time my old man was a boy in the 40s she was an eccentric old lady in a crimson shawl who lived alone in the house he bought as our family home in 1980.

The most terrifying occurrence of the haunting was when a picture flew off the wall and smashed over the head of my sister one afternoon in the early 80s. Kathy was blatantly jealous of pretty young girls as things started up again in the 2000s when my sister’s daughters were there. Not as bad this time though, Kathy had obviously mellowed with age..  

 

When Dad was an apprentice he worked for Kathy’s nephew and his widow was still alive throughout my teens and she’d regale us with tales of what a strange old bird Kathy was… she knew it was haunted before we moved in. Sometime after he retired dad once saw Kathy in the dressing table mirror of the bedroom when he was sat on the edge of the bed putting his shoes on..  he sensed something and looked up and saw her in the mirror just passing through the room in her red shawl…