Middle East Crisis

[RobinRobin 10672]

53 minutes ago, Craig said:

Been watching a lot of John Oliver's Last Week Tonight recently and he did one a few weeks ago on the occupation of the West Bank. Worth the 45 minutes to watch it if you haven't already seen it:
 

https://tube.fede.re/w/c85fcae5-06b0-4f44-870b-a74c07378d95

Cheers. I'd given up on him recently because he wasn't roasting Trump when he wasn't in office. He started on parochial US stuff which didn't mean much to me. 👍 

[Craig 6576]

23 minutes ago, RobinRobin said:

Cheers. I'd given up on him recently because he wasn't roasting Trump when he wasn't in office. He started on parochial US stuff which didn't mean much to me. 👍 

He's more than making up for it now ... although he's aiming it more towards Vance than Trump.

[Craig 6576]

1 hour ago, RobinRobin said:

Cheers. I'd given up on him recently because he wasn't roasting Trump when he wasn't in office. He started on parochial US stuff which didn't mean much to me. 👍 

The piece he did on the Tories just before the election (which wasn't permitted to be broadcast in the UK) was nothing short of superb.

https://tube.fede.re/w/e59cb0b5-3970-4298-af80-38b9aeeae0a0

[Craig 6576]

Yesterday pagers, today walkie-talkies

[Renton 20414]

I am getting that Michell and Webb meme "are we the bad guys" feelin here. Hezbollah maybe terrorists, but the Israeli governement are too, and much more extreme and better at it. If the boot were on the other foot there would be outrage. Netanyahu needs to be tried and imprisoned for life under terrorism charges. 

[Craig 6576]

Could not agree more. The depravity of their actions cannot be lessened on the basis of international relations, nor can it be excused in any way because "Hamas and Hezbollah are bad guys too". 

It's utterly appalling. I watched that John Oliver thing back earlier and the most telling line was where he comments on Israel's position in the aftermath of the holocaust which was "it must never happen again". They're dangerously close, as he pointed to that rhetoric being discretely changed to "it must never happen again, to us".  

[Renton 20414]

2 minutes ago, Craig said:

Could not agree more. The depravity of their actions cannot be lessened on the basis of international relations, nor can it be excused in any way because "Hamas and Hezbollah are bad guys too". 

It's utterly appalling. I watched that John Oliver thing back earlier and the most telling line was where he comments on Israel's position in the aftermath of the holocaust which was "it must never happen again". They're dangerously close, as he pointed to that rhetoric being discretely changed to "it must never happen again, to us".  

 

Aye, or even ""it must never happen again, unless by us".

 

This is what I find so disturbing, if there were one group of people who should be acutely aware of the consequences of, at best, ethnic cleansing, it is the Israeli settlers of the holocaust survivors. It gives me little hope for humanity that they participate in this, and, from what I can tell, most in Israel are supportive. 

[Craig 6576]

Hezbollah leader giving a press conference stating the device attacks are a 'declaration of war. 

 

Whilst he's giving his speech Israeli fighters are bombing ground targets in Lebanon

[Gemmill 42591]

My advice: stop following it. These fucking nutcases have been doing this shit for our entire lives. It's absolutely miserable and incredibly sad that a lot of normal civilians are bearing the brunt of it. These little men and their stupid religions and power plays can all get absolutely fucked. 

 

But for your own mental health, you're better off just switching off from it. 

[Dr Gloom 21283]

it's hard for me to switch off because my family are in the middle of it. 

 

for what it's worth, popular opinion in israel seems to have turned massively against netanyahu. there have been regular protests on the streets about him, particularly after so many of the hostages were returned dead. he will end up behind bars when this is done, and rightly so for the atrocities he has overseen, which is why it's in his interests to prolong the conflict as long as possible. 

 

conversely, and perversely, his likud party are climbing in the polls again. fucking hopeless. 

 

[Dr Gloom 21283]

On 11/08/2024 at 09:17, Renton said:

And Ukraine. 

I sincerely hope somehow a two state solution and peace can prevail in Gaza. But the problems of the Middle East just seem intractable and eternal, depressing as that is. As a European, I am more concerned by and  focused on peace in Europe. 

 

it's hard to see how it ever happens. There is too much hatred and so little trust built up over decades of conflict. The Oslo accords seem a long, long time ago. 

 

Israeli nationalists and dickheads in the settlements believe Gaza and the West Bank is theirs. Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map and replace it with a new state of Palestine, from the river to the sea as the chant goes. 

 

Moderates on both sides who believe in a two state solution and peace are scared about the military threat from the other. 

 

FWIW, Israel bulldozed its settlements in Gaza when it withdrew, it could do the same in the West Bank if there was ever the political will (seems a million miles away from where we are today). It's worth noting that Hamas were elected shortly after Israel withdrew - something the far-right nutters would point to if things ever got that far. Any future Israeli pm who went down that path would probably meet the same fate as Rabin

Edited 43 minutes ago by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21283]

(i fully support a two-state solutuon, i should say. i just don't know how it happens in our lifetimes. it would take both sides around the table, say "enough is enough" and make big concessions. we're nowhere near) 

[Craig 6576]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

(i fully support a two-state solutuon, i should say. i just don't know how it happens in our lifetimes. it would take both sides around the table, say "enough is enough" and make big concessions. we're nowhere near) 

 

I don't know how it happens full stop. My far from fully educated instinct is that Palestine would be more amenable to it than Israel who I don't think will ever shift towards being accepting of a Palestinian state.

[Dr Gloom 21283]

5 hours ago, Craig said:

 

I don't know how it happens full stop. My far from fully educated instinct is that Palestine would be more amenable to it than Israel who I don't think will ever shift towards being accepting of a Palestinian state.

Netanyahu and his coalition of far-right nutters and ultra orthodox loonies on one side, and Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran on the other, are all cut from the same cloth. Neither side (at least those who are in power, or pulling the strings currently) are interested in peace or concession. In fact, they need conflict to remain in power. Meanwhile it’s the innocent moderates in the middle who suffer 

Edited 39 minutes ago by Dr Gloom