Athleticism v technical ability - which is more important?

[Dr Gloom 21912]

the salty comments from egghead and shaw got me thinking. they're wrong like - we beat them because we wanted it more but also because we were better at football than them. 

 

but what is more important: athleticism or technique? which quality does howe value higher? 

 

ideally you want both, but i don't think howe signs any players who don't do the running he demands. he said as much in his post-match interview: he has a team of athletes and wants to play with intensity.

 

it's why longstaff has been an ever-present. he will literally run and run and run despite being limited with the ball. 

 

it's why links with scott mctominay make more sense than the links with ruben neves. neves is much more gifted on the ball, mctominay doesn't look the most technical player to me but i was struck by how much ground he covered yesterday. he could probably do a similar job to longstaff.

 

it's why ASM will probably end up being sold. all the technical ability in the world, but will he ever consistently buy into the way howe wants to play? probably not. 

 

gordon looks the archetypal howe signing: some ability on the ball, but it's his pace and running ability which really stands out. he played a loose pass yesterday after coming on but immediately busted a gut to make up the ground to win it back. 

 

so i expect more of the same this summer transfer window. we will sign players with technical ability but they might not always be the glamour signings. the most important thing howe will look for is the athleticism to play the high intensity pressing game. 

 

[ewerk 30549]

Being athletic is a prerequisite to being an Eddie Howe signing. There's no point in being incredibly gifted if you are incapable/unwilling to put in the graft that he demands of his players. What we'll be looking to sign are players who can put in a full shift but also have more technical ability than those we have at the moment. Howe said it from the very beginning, 'intensity is our identity'.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

3 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Being athletic is a prerequisite to being an Eddie Howe signing. There's no point in being incredibly gifted if you are incapable/unwilling to put in the graft that he demands of his players. What we'll be looking to sign are players who can put in a full shift but also have more technical ability than those we have at the moment. Howe said it from the very beginning, 'intensity is our identity'.

 

so a player like ruben neves, who i rate. is he going to fit in? can running ability be coached? i think a certain level of natural athleticism is a prerequisite, like you say. and some players will never have it. 

 

shelvey is another example. he tried to get into the type pf shape howe demands, but he was probably never going to do the work off the ball howe demands. i'm not sure he's physically capable of it tbh, which is why he broke down after trying, and probably also why we let him go. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21912]

i think you can maybe file the tielemens links alongside neves. another quality player on the ball, but i don't think he works hard enough either. 

[RobinRobin 11258]

10 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

i think you can maybe file the tielemens links alongside neves. another quality player on the ball, but i don't think he works hard enough either. 

Always thought Neves was that sort of player. Better fitter version of Shelvey. 

[ewerk 30549]

56 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

so a player like ruben neves, who i rate. is he going to fit in? can running ability be coached? i think a certain level of natural athleticism is a prerequisite, like you say. and some players will never have it. 

 

 

What makes you think that Neves doesn't work hard enough?

[Dr Gloom 21912]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

 

What makes you think that Neves doesn't work hard enough?

just an impression based on the games I’ve seen him play. Love the way he sprays it around but doesn’t look the most mobile to me. 
 

happy to admit I may be wrong here. I haven’t watched him loads. 

[ewerk 30549]

It's hard to get running stats on individual players but Neves from a few years ago was covering plenty of distance in matches.

[Rayvin 5217]

I do think we need the technical quality - how far would this team get without players like Bruno and Trippier? That said, it's also true that we can't really afford passengers or the system doesn't work as well. We operate a team based press, if someone slacks off in that then they're leaving spaces and wasting everyone else's effort.

 

There's my contribution to this thread  (and it is a good thread). Both important, get both.

[Howay 12496]

I always think people often fall into the trap of thinking it’s one or the other (not saying that’s you Gloom just in general), the reality is most top players do both, they have quality and are extremely hard working and strong. Grealish for example is an absolute work horse of a player but because of how he carry’s himself he can be seen as lazy or a flair player, Mahrez on their opposite flank is phenomenally hard working and is an absolutely incredible player. James Maddison works very hard, covers a ton of ground in games but it’s rarely mentioned, if you watch a Leicester game and notice how when they’re on the attack he’s constantly popping up in different areas left to right when he’s on the ball, harder to see this year because they’re so bad mind. 
 

Honestly that to me is where we see links like McTominay coming from, this view that Howe wants hard working players so that means a McTominay or a Longstaff, but look at Bruno Guimeraes - he easily matches the work rate of those players but also has immense ability on the ball. The difference for most teams is those Bruno type players are out of reach both budget and ambition wise. We will be in for the players who have both, Isak, Bruno etc types. 

[Dr Gloom 21912]

7 minutes ago, Howay said:

I always think people often fall into the trap of thinking it’s one or the other (not saying that’s you Gloom just in general), the reality is most top players do both, they have quality and are extremely hard working and strong. Grealish for example is an absolute work horse of a player but because of how he carry’s himself he can be seen as lazy or a flair player, Mahrez on their opposite flank is phenomenally hard working and is an absolutely incredible player. James Maddison works very hard, covers a ton of ground in games but it’s rarely mentioned, if you watch a Leicester game and notice how when they’re on the attack he’s constantly popping up in different areas left to right when he’s on the ball, harder to see this year because they’re so bad mind. 
 

Honestly that to me is where we see links like McTominay coming from, this view that Howe wants hard working players so that means a McTominay or a Longstaff, but look at Bruno Guimeraes - he easily matches the work rate of those players but also has immense ability on the ball. The difference for most teams is those Bruno type players are out of reach both budget and ambition wise. We will be in for the players who have both, Isak, Bruno etc types. 

 

the best players clearly have both but you don't get anywhere without hard work. a highly skilful player won't play for the top sides unless he does what is required out of possession too.

 

i'm sure we'll be looking to bring in players with better technique, players who can finish better. but athleticism is absolutely essential to the way howe wants to play and he will prioritise it over everything else. 

 

whether that means we end up bringing in the likes of mctominay remains to be seen. i can believe that the reported interest in him is real, but it probably depends on wether we finish 3rd or 7th. 

[ackas 311]

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

It's hard to get running stats on individual players but Neves from a few years ago was covering plenty of distance in matches.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2910633#!

 

Thats about the best I could find
Prior to the world cup break, Neves is top 10

[Dr Gloom 21912]

46 minutes ago, ackas said:

 

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2910633#!

 

Thats about the best I could find
Prior to the world cup break, Neves is top 10

So I was talking shite then? That makes a change

[Andrew 4747]

6 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

So I was talking shite then? That makes a change

 

Aye a little

 

Worth remembering that under Nuno, before Howe came to us, it was Wolves that were always lauded as the leagues fittest team, with the massive running stats and tons of intensity. Neves being a cornerstone of that team makes him a really good call to join us imo.