Wor Eddie's Fuck The Draw Bastards v Eriks Schmoking the Pancake School Meal Wankers - AKA The League Cup Final + Gemmill Loves Excel

[Alex 34893]

46 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

I take the positives from what Fish and Gloom are saying whilst still maintaining Man Utd didn’t have to do a lot to beat us. We played ok but there wasn’t any point that I thought we’d win. Man Utd knew too much, without shutting us down completely they were confident they’d keep us out. I don’t think we’d have scored if we were still playing now..,

I think their quality obviously showed on the day. But you could argue our not having much of a sniff in their third boils down to Wilson. He’s been one of the top 3 players at the club since he arrived. But he’s been really struggling of late and it’s hard to think of anyone who had a worse game on Sunday. It just about sums his performance up that he played Casemiro onside for the first. I think the convoluted point I’m trying to make is we were probably only a player or two away from giving them a real match 

[Alex 34893]

It’s probably also worth pointing out that, on recent form and performances, Man Utd are probably one of the top 5 sides in Europe. 

[Dr Gloom 21836]

6 minutes ago, Alex said:

I think their quality obviously showed on the day. But you could argue our not having much of a sniff in their third boils down to Wilson. He’s been one of the top 3 players at the club since he arrived. But he’s been really struggling of late and it’s hard to think of anyone who had a worse game on Sunday. It just about sums his performance up that he played Casemiro onside for the first. I think the convoluted point I’m trying to make is we were probably only a player or two away from giving them a real match 

 

wilson needs a spell on the sidelines because he isn't playing his way back into form/fitness. it's a weird one because in the past he's always hit the ground running when he's returned from injuries. 

 

isak again looked the better option and deserves a run in the side. i'm surprised wilson lasted the full 90 minutes on sunday 

[The Fish 10764]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

The gap really isn’t that big at all. I thought Man U were deeply unimpressive. This Newcastle side still contains plenty of players who were in a relegation battle under Bruce. That side wound have struggled to have 30% possession. If Maxi or Joe finished their chances - or if we had a fit Wilson - we could have won that. 
 

One thing that bothered me was our reluctance to have a shot. For all our dominance in possession, we kept working it around their box instead of getting

shots off. Murphy looked up for it in that regard and was unlucky with his effort from distance that went just wide. I don’t know if that’s something that’s being coached - wait for the high value opportunities in other words, or just a case of big match nerves.
 

 

We were having to rely on Murphy and Ritchie in the final few minutes, they could bring on Jadon Sancho, Sabitzer et al. Another couple of windows and we'll be bringing on the likes of Saint Maximin to replace our 1st choice left winger, or our young midfielder with bags of potential to replace Bruno's tiring legs. 

 

re: the shots, I think it must be. We've been shot shy in a lot of games recently. Partly because the chances haven't been falling to Wilson, but I'm convinced the main reason is that we're trying to fashion a chance with a high chance of a goal. Unfortunately that's not been happening. Bruno, Longstaff, Schar and Trippier can all have digs from deep if they want, and in games where we're playing well sometimes you need something like that to give the opposition another threat to be concerned about. 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3855]

Isak is not a centre forward.

[The Fish 10764]

30 minutes ago, Renton said:

"It's goals that count, innit".

 

I'll never forget the Chelsea wankers coming out with that on the tube back from Wembley in 2000. And tbf, it's impossible to argue against.

 

As an aside, I wonder what the xG would have been that match at home we had against ManU when we effectively lost the league in 1996. The one where Smiechel was super human. Can someone work this out retrospectively so I can comfort myself?  

 

 

I'd love to, but I don't have the stats for it. The two stats that I'd bee looking for would be xG and post shot xG. Former would show us if we were causing their defence as big a problem as we remember, the latter would emphasise just how good Peter Schmeichel was. 

[The Fish 10764]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

Isak is not a centre forward.

No not a stereotypical one, but he's more of a goal threat than Wilson is, right now. 

[PaddockLad 17123]

Just now, Alex said:

It’s probably also worth pointing out that, on recent form and performances, Man Utd are probably one of the top 5 sides in Europe. 

I think the point that kills me is them playing 8 games to our 4 before the final and still winning fairly comfortably, they’d  put Barca out of Europe on Thursday night ffs. They’re going to be a very decent side next season. 
 

There’s a gobshite on twitter who is never happy about anything . We might as well still be owned by Ashley for him. Thing is more often than not he’s right-ish. He said one thing that made me think a couple of weeks ago. Whilst complaining furiously about the transfer window he said this may be our best chance to finish in the top four for a few seasons. There’s a good chance that is true iyam., especially due to our lack of activity in the window (am not complaining btw, just stating the situation) Chelsea will sign a striker in the summer obviously. Spurs are still up there despite being overwhelmingly average . We’ll have to see if the perception that we were being made to wait for targets to become available is accurate and obviously FFP is going to be important. And then you’ve got possible takeovers at Man Utd & Liverpool. It’s not going to be easy & this possibly was our best chance….

[RobinRobin 11154]

34 minutes ago, Alex said:

Well one goal was a deflected shot that wasn’t going in. Karius didn’t have a lot to do. Great set piece for their goal though. De Gea made a good save from Maxi but it was good positioning. If that shot was a matter of 6 inches higher he probably doesn’t have a hope of saving it. xG will never tell the whole story of a match (like how they were able to sit on  their 2 goal cushion in the second half). But it’s still a good indicator of how a match has played out 

But still they give it to Rashford. Don't suppose Botman is complaining though. 

[Alex 34893]

4 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

I think the point that kills me is them playing 8 games to our 4 before the final and still winning fairly comfortably, they’d  put Barca out of Europe on Thursday night ffs. They’re going to be a very decent side next season. 
 

There’s a gobshite on twitter who is never happy about anything . We might as well still be owned by Ashley for him. Thing is more often than not he’s right-ish. He said one thing that made me think a couple of weeks ago. Whilst complaining furiously about the transfer window he said this may be our best chance to finish in the top four for a few seasons. There’s a good chance that is true iyam., especially due to our lack of activity in the window (am not complaining btw, just stating the situation) Chelsea will sign a striker in the summer obviously. Spurs are still up there despite being overwhelmingly average . We’ll have to see if the perception that we were being made to wait for targets to become available is accurate and obviously FFP is going to be important. And then you’ve got possible takeovers at Man Utd & Liverpool. It’s not going to be easy & this possibly was our best chance….

I suppose the other way to look at it is we’re building gradually and supposing we make the CL. Then you’re in a competition you haven’t got a cat in hells chance of winning, with (even with best will in the world in terms of additions this summer) a squad nowhere near being able to compete on all fronts. I’m canny chilled about it tbh because I think it’s inevitable we’ll become an established top 6 side but it might take a few years. The state the club was in (in all areas) might mean doing it over 3/4 years at least. Obviously I’m nee spring chicken and would like to see success asap but a lo of people have no realism when assessing what should be done / timescales. Which I get because if you’re not emotionally attached as a fan there’s not a lot of point in supporting a team tbh 

[RobinRobin 11154]

The period pre world cup was beyond anything we probably expected which has got some ahead of themselves. Yes it may well be our best chance for a while but I don't want us then to fail immediately. 

[Dr Gloom 21836]

20 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

Isak is not a centre forward.

 

he can play up front but he's a different type of centre forward to wilson, that's for sure

[Renton 21378]

12 minutes ago, RobinRobin said:

But still they give it to Rashford. Don't suppose Botman is complaining though. 

 

It was given to Botman in all the sources I have read. Which addmittedly is just the Sky Sports app! 

[NJS 4375]

They've changed it today. 

[PaddockLad 17123]

12 minutes ago, Alex said:

I suppose the other way to look at it is we’re building gradually and supposing we make the CL. Then you’re in a competition you haven’t got a cat in hells chance of winning, with (even with best will in the world in terms of additions this summer) a squad nowhere near being able to compete on all fronts. I’m canny chilled about it tbh because I think it’s inevitable we’ll become an established top 6 side but it might take a few years. The state the club was in (in all areas) might mean doing it over 3/4 years at least. Obviously I’m nee spring chicken and would like to see success asap but a lo of people have no realism when assessing what should be done / timescales. Which I get because if you’re not emotionally attached as a fan there’s not a lot of point in supporting a team tbh 

Yeah we’ve no chance of winning but it’s the money the champions league brings in that would be the most significant thing for me, the standard of player we could attract etc. Am like you, more than happy with the progress we’ve made. But if we don’t finish top 4 I think its fair to say that it’s a missed opportunity that may be difficult to repeat, especially next season and f we’re in the Thursday/Sunday slot 👍

[Renton 21378]

11 minutes ago, Alex said:

I suppose the other way to look at it is we’re building gradually and supposing we make the CL. Then you’re in a competition you haven’t got a cat in hells chance of winning, with (even with best will in the world in terms of additions this summer) a squad nowhere near being able to compete on all fronts. I’m canny chilled about it tbh because I think it’s inevitable we’ll become an established top 6 side but it might take a few years. The state the club was in (in all areas) might mean doing it over 3/4 years at least. Obviously I’m nee spring chicken and would like to see success asap but a lo of people have no realism when assessing what should be done / timescales. Which I get because if you’re not emotionally attached as a fan there’s not a lot of point in supporting a team tbh 

 

I agree with both you and PL here. The obvious parallel is Man City who took a while in an arguably easier era. But the top looks more over crowded than ever now in terms of teams being owned by hyper billionaires or soverign wealth funds, and its always a concern that NUFC really doesn't have the best legacy or geography to compete. Which adds to my sense of urgency which PL alludes too. Basically, have we missed the boat? Otoh, it's difficult to imagine PIF won't pull out the stops to not even compete at the top, but win. Otherwise I'm not sure why they are here, niot to make a profit I'm sure. Que sera anyway, its only a fucking game, and I mean that. There are more important things. 

[Dr Gloom 21836]

5 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I agree with both you and PL here. The obvious parallel is Man City who took a while in an arguably easier era. But the top looks more over crowded than ever now in terms of teams being owned by hyper billionaires or soverign wealth funds, and its always a concern that NUFC really doesn't have the best legacy or geography to compete. Which adds to my sense of urgency which PL alludes too. Basically, have we missed the boat? Otoh, it's difficult to imagine PIF won't pull out the stops to not even compete at the top, but win. Otherwise I'm not sure why they are here, niot to make a profit I'm sure. Que sera anyway, its only a fucking game, and I mean that. There are more important things. 

 

its importance definitely increases when things start moving in the right direction though. otherwise, why would we chat so much shit about it on here all week? it was notably quiet on this board during the ashley years because the club and the fans were going through the motions. 

 

i'm v happy to be spending more time here and less time and energy on the politics/brexit threads these days 

[Renton 21378]

10 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

its importance definitely increases when things start moving in the right direction though. otherwise, why would we chat so much shit about it on here all week? it was notably quiet on this board during the ashley years because the club and the fans were going through the motions. 

 

i'm v happy to be spending more time here and less time and energy on the politics/brexit threads these days 

 

Me too, and absolutely.  Don't think I bothered with the footy board for 10 years.

But I guess that's the point. If we're not doing well or going nowhere, then I can take it or leave it. I fully admit I'm a fair weather supporter.  

[Dr Gloom 21836]

7 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Me too, and absolutely.  Don't think I bothered with the footy board for 10 years.

But I guess that's the point. If we're not doing well or going nowhere, then I can take it or leave it. I fully admit I'm a fair weather supporter.  

 

i think most are, even if some don't like to admit it. it's hard to sustain much enthusiasm when the club you follow is barely trying. 

 

i still went to a game or two a season under ashley and watched the games on the telly, but i was doing it out a sense of duty. it was nothing like now. the wife was asking me why i bothered when i clearly wasn't getting much out of it. watching us lose didn't really hurt, because we lost so often. sometimes i would forget we were even playing on a certain day and then a bad result was met with a shrug of the shoulders. 

 

edit - I've done a complete 180 since the takeover like. gone fully mental for footie again 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Dr Gloom

[Toonpack 9283]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

But he verbalised an irrelevant measurement perfectly. Strange that, being able to tell what’s happening on the pitch by actually watching the game 😀

 

Seems to me that an inordinate amount of the time the team with the higher xG doesn't actually win tight-ish games i.e. a game that isn't a hammering. So it reflects the opposite of what actually happened.

 

 

[Gemmill 44464]

6 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

Seems to me that an inordinate amount of the time the team with the higher xG doesn't actually win tight-ish games i.e. a game that isn't a hammering. So it reflects the opposite of what actually happened.

 

 

 

 Seems to me that a statement like that should come with some evidence. Seems to me like it absolutely won't. 

 

[Toonpack 9283]

31 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

 

 Seems to me that a statement like that should come with some evidence. Seems to me like it absolutely won't. 

 

 Erm

[Gemmill 44464]

i know it CAN happen.

 

[Craig 6682]

2 hours ago, Gemmill said:

 

You're right, Craig still doesn't understand what xG is measuring. 

 

I understand it perfectly. I just happen to be of the opinion that it's bullshit

 

[Toonpack 9283]

Explain the evidence which you suggested didn't exist. Why does it happen ?? go on, educate a non-believer.