o'neil's salubrious playground of the dorset uber wealthy v howe's scally infested coop of decapitated fowl

[The Fish 10849]

10 minutes ago, Howay said:

The issue is his strengths have to come at the detriment of our system, we haven’t got the quality throughout the side to accommodate a player that doesn’t help the press. Pressing from the front and turnovers high up the pitch has been our bread and butter all season, this is something Murphy is good at which is why I highlighted him - if everyone was fit I’d play Gordon there but I’m anticipating Willock is out. 
 

ASM does create a lot of these stats, but what is the quality like on these? As when we watch the games he’s not putting in high quality crosses that give his teammates a good chance at the ball, or setting up brilliant shooting chances. His main issue for me is that he doesn’t do enough of that, he often beats a man or two which is the difference he has over many but rather than utilize that advantage created and set up a team mate he continues his run and it ends up fizzling out. It seems like he generates quantity rather than quality. 

 

High, when he was playing regularly, he was top 10 in the league (I think).  The trouble is, he hasn't been a real regular for quite some time and our style of play has changed dramatically, in that we have one beyond getting the ball to him regularly. 

 

I think we're playing high up the pitch which limits the benefit of his ability to beat 2 men, because there is often an entrenched defensive unit, whereas when we were ostensibly a counter attack side, were he to beat a couple of players he'd have a clear run at the 'keeper. I also think he hasn't been playing with anyone long enough to get used to their runs, movements and stuff like that. 

 

My focus here isn't tossing our effective style aside to accommodate a pretty mercurial winger. Our issue right now is creating and taking chances against an entrenched side, ASM is one of the few players in our side that does create chaos. 

[PaddockLad 17241]

I think we’re coming round to at least inflicting a flesh wound on the sacred cow that is Eddie Howe . He needs to get out of Maxi what we all know is in there….there. I said it. We saw what he did to Kyle Walker, he just needs to do that twice a month, starting this Saturday and then the following Sunday  

[wykikitoon 20112]

3 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

High, when he was playing regularly, he was top 10 in the league (I think).  The trouble is, he hasn't been a real regular for quite some time and our style of play has changed dramatically, in that we have one beyond getting the ball to him regularly. 

 

I think we're playing high up the pitch which limits the benefit of his ability to beat 2 men, because there is often an entrenched defensive unit, whereas when we were ostensibly a counter attack side, were he to beat a couple of players he'd have a clear run at the 'keeper. I also think he hasn't been playing with anyone long enough to get used to their runs, movements and stuff like that. 

 

My focus here isn't tossing our effective style aside to accommodate a pretty mercurial winger. Our issue right now is creating and taking chances against an entrenched side, ASM is one of the few players in our side that does create chaos. 

That final sentence. 

 

So players like Wilson and Miggy pressing from the front and pushing defenders back and resulting in losing balls is what exactly? 

 

Miggy scoring and crossing is what? 

[Renton 21570]

3 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

That final sentence. 

 

So players like Wilson and Miggy pressing from the front and pushing defenders back and resulting in losing balls is what exactly? 

 

Miggy scoring and crossing is what? 

 

Truth is nowt is working at the minute really is it? For whatever reason. And ASM clearly isn't the solution. Fortunately unlike that TRAITOR PL I have faith in EH that he is best equipped to get us playing a tune again. Hopefully by next weekend. 

[The Fish 10849]

3 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

That final sentence. 

 

So players like Wilson and Miggy pressing from the front and pushing defenders back and resulting in losing balls is what exactly? 

 

Miggy scoring and crossing is what? 

I take your point, but that's less about those players' individual skillsets and more about the system. ASM drags players out of position, draws fouls, just by being himself. 

 

Wilson and Almiron are more reliant on Bruno and/or Trippier.

[Howay 12496]

20 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

High, when he was playing regularly, he was top 10 in the league (I think).  The trouble is, he hasn't been a real regular for quite some time and our style of play has changed dramatically, in that we have one beyond getting the ball to him regularly. 

 

I think we're playing high up the pitch which limits the benefit of his ability to beat 2 men, because there is often an entrenched defensive unit, whereas when we were ostensibly a counter attack side, were he to beat a couple of players he'd have a clear run at the 'keeper. I also think he hasn't been playing with anyone long enough to get used to their runs, movements and stuff like that. 

 

My focus here isn't tossing our effective style aside to accommodate a pretty mercurial winger. Our issue right now is creating and taking chances against an entrenched side, ASM is one of the few players in our side that does create chaos. 

I’ll defer to whoever is tracking that, as what I see from him is a lot of low quality chances generated, or opportunities to create being passed up. A lot of his stats were inflated to a degree because of the Bruce era where he was the focal - same as Defoe at the mackems. Which is why I’m fine if there’s a drop off in terms of chances generated from him volume wise, my issue is the quality isn’t there when I watch as his final ball tends to be lacking. He’s always had potential, but as I say I just feel like he skips past his man and rather than utilize the advantage created he keeps dribbling.
 

We shall see I suppose. As I’ve said though I feel our main issue at the moment is we’re not the aggressive shit houses we have been. We generated so many turnovers high up the pitch which gave us opportunities but that’s massively dropped off. I agree with your other factor as well that teams are sitting off us as well, we’re no longer seen as a chance at 3 points but one of the teams you target a point from - that’s where it was a shame we couldn’t get a Maddison in who would help break lines but I understand the deal just wasn’t there. 
 

Whatever the path forward is I just hope we can figure it out soon as it’s a crucial few weeks. 

[PaddockLad 17241]

10 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Truth is nowt is working at the minute really is it? For whatever reason. And ASM clearly isn't the solution. Fortunately unlike that TRAITOR PL I have faith in EH that he is best equipped to get us playing a tune again. Hopefully by next weekend. 

It’s treacherous to suggest someone do their job as effectively as we know they can? That goes for Maxi & the manager tbh. We’ve spit roasted many a coach for less. Eddie needs to find a way out of this team wide malaise… don’t get me wrong he’s got loads of credit in the tank with me but it is at the end of the day down to him. His credit with many will reduce if we lose our next two games mind. It’ll still be high with me but NUFC social media is displaying a depressing  “big 6” style of bitter entitlement . It’s frankly pathetic and I can’t put up with it…. 

[Howay 12496]

Aye, we’re already seeing a weird backlash about Dan Burn on twitter which is absurd. I think whatever way we go from here the season has been a massive success, it’s almost certain we finish in the top 8 and have a final appearance under our belt - it would of course be disappointing to end runners up in a cup and outside the European spots given the position we are in but it’s still a massive fucking success. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Howay

[The Fish 10849]

2 hours ago, Howay said:

I’ll defer to whoever is tracking that, as what I see from him is a lot of low quality chances generated, or opportunities to create being passed up. A lot of his stats were inflated to a degree because of the Bruce era where he was the focal - same as Defoe at the mackems. Which is why I’m fine if there’s a drop off in terms of chances generated from him volume wise, my issue is the quality isn’t there when I watch as his final ball tends to be lacking. He’s always had potential, but as I say I just feel like he skips past his man and rather than utilize the advantage created he keeps dribbling.
 

We shall see I suppose. As I’ve said though I feel our main issue at the moment is we’re not the aggressive shit houses we have been. We generated so many turnovers high up the pitch which gave us opportunities but that’s massively dropped off. I agree with your other factor as well that teams are sitting off us as well, we’re no longer seen as a chance at 3 points but one of the teams you target a point from - that’s where it was a shame we couldn’t get a Maddison in who would help break lines but I understand the deal just wasn’t there. 
 

Whatever the path forward is I just hope we can figure it out soon as it’s a crucial few weeks. 

 

I think this part is key. Bruno aside we don't really have a visionary. Someone who sees three steps ahead, who pulls deeper to make space, who dinks a ball ahead of a blindside run. Almiron and ASM are both good at getting into the right positions either by beating a man or by making the run, but if nobody is finding them, what's the point?

 

Maddison could have lessened the impact of Bruno's absence, so too could Shelvey. Neither are a like for like replacement, but both are more creative in their own way.

[Dr Gloom 21912]

I appreciate what Alex said about the right players maybe not being available in the January window but I’m surprised they didn’t get a player in on loan to cover CM. We’re very light there for the run in. It’s a gamble - hopefully we get away with it.

 

It would be disappointing to drop out off the top 4 after being up there all season. No disgrace at all mind as we’re obviously punching above our weight, particularly given the lack of depth in the squad. 

[Alex 35060]

Similar situation where it’s easier said than done though. Who’s going to loan a good central midfielder in January? No point in just getting another body in for the sake of it if they’re not of the required quality. Then you have clubs like Chelsea refusing to loan players to us 

[The Fish 10849]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

Similar situation where it’s easier said than done though. Who’s going to loan a good central midfielder in January? No point in just getting another body in for the sake of it if they’re not of the required quality. Then you have clubs like Chelsea refusing to loan players to us 

Especially this season where the quality of player we need is either at an underperforming side (Chelsea/Liverpool/Leicester) or for our contemporary rivals.