Jimbo 175 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Kid Dynamite said: I love how he's gone from "did a canny job at Brighton" to "best DOF in world football" because Man Utd are after him whilst ignoring the absolute absence of a legacy at West Brom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11610 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 5 hours ago, aimaad22 said: One of the arsehole talksport hosts, no idea what his name is but he had Darren Bent sitting next to him, was having an argument with a fan on why Ashworth should need to go on gardening leave. Was comparing it to player transfers and that they immediately start playing for the new club. Yeah that's a bloody brilliant apples to apples comparison right there, one one hand you have someone who's supposed to be plotting the direction of the club for years and has access to sensitive data and plans that could have implications far into the future. Versus someone who's only literal job is to onto the filed and play. It's like comparing a CEO of a major company moving to a direct competitor with a truck driver doing the same. The fan was a mug too, didnt make any reference to how we dealt with Brighton and the gardening leave he was put on then. WTF Presumably because the new club PAYS THE TRANSFER FEE first. Fuck me there are some idiots about - not you @aimaad22 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11610 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 9 hours ago, Gemmill said: WHEN Manchester United needed a new defender, they quite happily paid Leicester City £80m to sign Harry Maguire. A midfielder? Why not spend £82m to prise Antony from Ajax? A new centre-forward? Here’s £75m to sign Romelu Lukaku from Everton. And that was back in 2017. None of the above helped address the long-term malaise that has set in at Old Trafford over the last decade or so, so rather than blow the budget on yet another big-name player, Sir Jim Ratcliffe has sensibly decided that his first move as part-owner of Manchester United should be the acquisition of a world-class sporting director capable of overhauling the club’s entire transfer policy. If he’s deemed to be that important, though, it’s surely only logical that Ratcliffe will have to pay top dollar to get him. If an error-prone centre-half is priced at £80m, what is the value of someone who can ensure that similar sums are not wasted in the future? Twice that? Four times as much? That’s not the sporting world we live in, but it makes the point. All of which brings us to Dan Ashworth, and the current stand-off between Newcastle United and Manchester United over the former’s sporting director. Manchester United want Ashworth to be the driving force behind the INEOS-led restructuring of the club’s recruitment operation. Ashworth wants to be allowed to swap St James’ Park for Old Trafford. So far, so simple. But, understandably, Newcastle’s executive team do not really want to lose the figure they entrusted to lead their own rebuilding project. And if he is to go, they want to ensure they are properly compensated for the inconvenience of having to recruit a second new sporting director in the space of two years, not to mention the possible damage caused by the departure of someone with detailed knowledge of the club’s transfer policy to a leading rival. Newcastle are understood to be demanding compensation of more than £20m, but the initial indication is that Manchester United’s new owners regard that as much too high. Really? Is upwards of £20m too much to pay for someone who is being appointed in the hope of completely transforming the way an entire club operates? Pay £100m for a striker, and you might get a few goals over the course of the next couple of years. Appoint a world-class sporting director – and for all that his record at Newcastle is chequered, with major question marks hanging over the summer signings of Sandro Tonali and Lewis Hall, that is how Ashworth is regarded within Premier League circles – and you have the potential to supercharge your club’s fortunes for decades. Newcastle are right to dig their heels in over Ashworth, not least because a large compensation fee potentially has major repercussions when it comes to the club’s ongoing attempts to stay on the right side of the Premier League’s profit and sustainability rules. If Newcastle receive more than £20m for their sporting director – the vast majority of which will be entered as profit on the P&S balance sheet – it potentially negates the need to sell a big-name player in order to fund purchases this summer. Allow Ashworth to leave for £5m, and you might be waving goodbye to Bruno Guimaraes at the end of the season. Bank £25m instead, and you might be able to sign a new striker while still keeping the Brazilian midfielder on the books. And who are one of the clubs consistently championing the current FFP rules, largely because it enables them to retain their own privileged position as one of the Premier League’s biggest spenders? Manchester United, of course, desperate to keep upstarts like Newcastle in their box while they continue to outspend pretty much every team in the league even though they have not really challenged for the title since the days of Sir Alex Ferguson. Having made a set of rules that encourage clubs to hold out for the maximum possible fee for anyone that leaves them while under contract, it is disingenuous of Manchester United to start wailing and moaning just because they are having to live by them. One more figure to throw into the mix. £14.5m. That is the sum, comprised of a loan fee and a Premier League survival bonus, that Manchester United were demanding when Newcastle wanted to sign Jesse Lingard on loan for the final four months of the 2022-23 season. £14.5m for four months of football from a fringe winger who left Manchester United as a free agent five months after Newcastle were quoted that figure, and who is now plying his trade in the South Korean league with FC Seoul. That was an outrageous attempt to overinflate the value of an employee who was wanted by a Premier League rival. Newcastle’s demands for more than £20m for Ashworth are anything but. Very well written 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35649 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 hours ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: Who the fuck listens to football podcasts? You might as well go to any pub and just listen to two drunk blokes talking, I bet it wouldn’t be too much different. What absolute fucking bollocks. Going to the pub would be much better 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46141 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 According to Waugh's latest, the LUDDITE Ashworth favoured a scouting/opinion-based approach to identifying player talent, rather than a more objective, data-driven one. The owners/management are keen to look to data to try to avoid any costly mistakes, especially given the FFP situation starting to bite. Which will be music to the ears of Toontastic, I'm sure. Especially the old guard who absolutely love the analytical side of things. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35649 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 9 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said: I love how he's gone from "did a canny job at Brighton" to "best DOF in world football" because Man Utd are after him I think Howay pointed out that Henry Winter was all over Ashworth purely because it was Man Utd after him. I said then that would just indicate Ashworth’s ability to sell himself as it’s not like he’s going to showing journalists exactly what he knows. Then you have bias views of Rio Ferdinand who will know absolutely fuck all about Ashworth beyond his decent reputation and Man Utd wanting him suddenly hailing the bloke as the best in the world at what he does. You can also guarantee the same people making these claims re: Ashworth also think this amazing football genius should be allowed to join Man Utd tomorrow with ourselves just allowing that to happen. Without even realising the contradiction there. All of which plays to John from Devon, lifelong Man Utd fan. Who understands stuff like this about as much as how to get to Old Trafford. Honestly, man. The fucking arrogance of these cunts. Alright, Ashworth has had his head turned by a bigger club and wants to leave. But he’s under contract so it’s absolutely on our terms or he remains on gardening leave until 2025. By which time the impatient hierarchy could well have gone for an alternative anyway. Which would be hilarious 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 3116 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I could be wrong but I thought Brighton's approach also resembled a very data driven "moneyball" type approach led by their owner who has some sort of background in data science or whatever. Potentially adds some context to the situation at Brighton. Perhaps Ashworth's contribution to signings there might have been oversold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 11610 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 27 minutes ago, Alex said: What absolute fucking bollocks. Going to the pub would be much better Of course it depends on whether the two drunks are discussing podcasts 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35649 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, toonotl said: I could be wrong but I thought Brighton's approach also resembled a very data driven "moneyball" type approach led by their owner who has some sort of background in data science or whatever. Potentially adds some context to the situation at Brighton. Perhaps Ashworth's contribution to signings there might have been oversold. I don’t recall who said it but it’s been mentioned in here before about the owner’s data-based approach at BHA being the key to their success in recruitment 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35649 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 21 minutes ago, Gemmill said: According to Waugh's latest, the LUDDITE Ashworth favoured a scouting/opinion-based approach to identifying player talent, rather than a more objective, data-driven one. The owners/management are keen to look to data to try to avoid any costly mistakes, especially given the FFP situation starting to bite. Which will be music to the ears of Toontastic, I'm sure. Especially the old guard who absolutely love the analytical side of things. If that’s true and given his short tenure here and at Brighton then it sounds like he could be a bit of a fraud who talks a good game. Obviously in our somewhat bitter collective states of mind, that’s what we would like to be the case. But it would also be so very Man Utd to be taken in if that was the case. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46141 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I know Newcastle have massively overhauled their approach to what goes on internally with regards to data. Player training loads, data from all training sessions, testing player strength in each leg and trying to address imbalances etc. I know the bloke who built it all for them and he's shown me the dashboards and the attention to detail is insane. He reckoned both Ashworth and Howe were obsessive at least about this side of data. I suppose if Ashworth was mainly looking to identify youth talent, then the stats won't be there to lean on, but aye who knows what went on at Brighton, or how much of what Waugh is saying is accurate, but he has never come across as a Billy bullshitter or someone who will jump to conclusions on things. Waugh definitely makes it clear that Howe had final say on signings. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22188 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 minute ago, Gemmill said: I know Newcastle have massively overhauled their approach to what goes on internally with regards to data. Player training loads, data from all training sessions, testing player strength in each leg and trying to address imbalances etc. I know the bloke who built it all for them and he's shown me the dashboards and the attention to detail is insane. He reckoned both Ashworth and Howe were obsessive at least about this side of data. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46141 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 16 minutes ago, Alex said: I think Howay pointed out that Henry Winter was all over Ashworth purely because it was Man Utd after him. I said then that would just indicate Ashworth’s ability to sell himself as it’s not like he’s going to showing journalists exactly what he knows. Then you have bias views of Rio Ferdinand who will know absolutely fuck all about Ashworth beyond his decent reputation and Man Utd wanting him suddenly hailing the bloke as the best in the world at what he does. You can also guarantee the same people making these claims re: Ashworth also think this amazing football genius should be allowed to join Man Utd tomorrow with ourselves just allowing that to happen. Without even realising the contradiction there. All of which plays to John from Devon, lifelong Man Utd fan. Who understands stuff like this about as much as how to get to Old Trafford. Honestly, man. The fucking arrogance of these cunts. Alright, Ashworth has had his head turned by a bigger club and wants to leave. But he’s under contract so it’s absolutely on our terms or he remains on gardening leave until 2025. By which time the impatient hierarchy could well have gone for an alternative anyway. Which would be hilarious That last point is a genuine live possibility, that Man United refuse to pay what we deem is an appropriate sum, the bloke sits on gardening leave, and they have to look elsewhere. I don't think it was avoidable that the bloke end up on gardening leave at least for a period of time, but he COULD have done something like said to Staveley etc, "look I'm interested, of course I am, but I understand that I have a contractual situation that needs to be resolved. What about if I take a back seat for a month while formal discussions take place, and if an agreement can't be reached then I'm more than happy to continue with the project here." He's put himself right out on a limb as it stands. I mean he's getting paid £28k a week apparently so it's not any great hardship he's facing. Maybe I just don't understand the level of freedom that sort of situation affords you. From memory, I'm sure the talk at the time was that Brighton were very amenable to our approach because we handled it in a completely professional way, going to them before initiating any contact with Ashworth etc. Contrast that to what's happened here. At the very least Ashworth could have said - "look I'm under contract to NUFC, I want this done properly. Speak to the club first." 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46141 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 7 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: The way you lot scoff at data, it can hardly be considered a brag at all. Maybe later when I post it on the PowerBItastic forum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 10002 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 20 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I know Newcastle have massively overhauled their approach to what goes on internally with regards to data. Player training loads, data from all training sessions, testing player strength in each leg and trying to address imbalances etc. I know the bloke who built it all for them and he's shown me the dashboards and the attention to detail is insane. He reckoned both Ashworth and Howe were obsessive at least about this side of data. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46141 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 As I was saying... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10972 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 12 minutes ago, Gemmill said: That last point is a genuine live possibility, that Man United refuse to pay what we deem is an appropriate sum, the bloke sits on gardening leave, and they have to look elsewhere. I don't think it was avoidable that the bloke end up on gardening leave at least for a period of time, but he COULD have done something like said to Staveley etc, "look I'm interested, of course I am, but I understand that I have a contractual situation that needs to be resolved. What about if I take a back seat for a month while formal discussions take place, and if an agreement can't be reached then I'm more than happy to continue with the project here." He's put himself right out on a limb as it stands. I mean he's getting paid £28k a week apparently so it's not any great hardship he's facing. Maybe I just don't understand the level of freedom that sort of situation affords you. From memory, I'm sure the talk at the time was that Brighton were very amenable to our approach because we handled it in a completely professional way, going to them before initiating any contact with Ashworth etc. Contrast that to what's happened here. At the very least Ashworth could have said - "look I'm under contract to NUFC, I want this done properly. Speak to the club first." Yep, if Man Utd had approached Newcastle first, I wouldn't have been shocked to see them stump up a reasonable fee and for Ashworth go on Gardening Leave until the end of the season. No muss, no fuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 20888 Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Does Caulkin and his rimmer pal proof read Waugh Articles and make sure they get credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 10002 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I would also like to add, I have never listened to a podcast of ANY description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 10002 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Ashworth has basically resigned and the contractual conditions of his notice period have kicked in. Someone wants to change that, they need to make us an offer that we are happy to accept. He'll sit amongst his petunias until that happens. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46141 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 One of the things they measure btw is the last time the player sprinted at full speed. They know every player's top speed and they use the last sprint at top speed as a proxy for full fitness when a player is getting back from an injury. Also I think to spot when someone is not being completely honest about their fitness. I think it proves both physical conditioning but also that the player believes they're back to full fitness. Anyway, back to your stat mocking, you filthy rats! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 6787 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 11 hours ago, Dr Gloom said: some of my best times have been spent staring at a mirror 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 10002 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, Gemmill said: One of the things they measure btw is the last time the player sprinted at full speed. They know every player's top speed and they use the last sprint at top speed as a proxy for full fitness when a player is getting back from an injury. Also I think to spot when someone is not being completely honest about their fitness. I think it proves both physical conditioning but also that the player believes they're back to full fitness. Anyway, back to your stat mocking, you filthy rats! Given our recurrent injury issues it's not working very well tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10972 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 9 minutes ago, Toonpack said: I would also like to add, I have never listened to a podcast of ANY description. Why not? Forget about football for a minute, there are some really good ones out there, whatever you're in to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22188 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 14 minutes ago, The Fish said: Why not? Forget about football for a minute, there are some really good ones out there, whatever you're in to. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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