Leonard Jeffrey "Oz" Osborne Silent Mags v Barry Spencer Taylor Boring Bastard Wolves

[Slayer 3]

3 hours ago, Howay said:

I’ve personally given up on ASM. He needs to give his head a wobble, people highlight the runs he makes but 90%+ of them go absolutely nowhere he just runs away from the rest of the team and generally refuses to pass the ball unless he absolutely has to (the pass he should have made to Bruno but then delayed being a glaring example). People are overly keen to give him credit as well, lots of bigging up his pass to Joelinton which eventually led to the pen it was fine and helped the move but come on man. 
 

I said in this thread at some point he will simply refuse to help the team keep the ball, and he did. He kept trying to go on mazy runs in the 85th+ minute losing the ball numerous times. People shrug it off when we go on to win but he did just that against Everton by dwelling on the ball instead of playing keep ball and it cost us. 
 

I think under Bruce his runs that went nowhere were a positive as we had nothing else whatsoever to be excited about. They were brief exciting moments in turgid games, whereas now we can build moves his runs often just break down play. 
 

Completely understand people have different opinion to me on this, but there’s this ridiculous narrative from the ASM fan club that anyone doubting him is an idiot and automatically wrong, they’ll throw out largely irrelevant stats like the amount of runs he goes on and when his lack of production is brought up it’s shrugged off as him being slightly off the boil, despite this being his most productive season in terms of goals and assists iirc. The way Howe plays, and wants to play, we are a better side without him imo. 

It would seem that the let’s make ASM the scapegoat for all goals conceded and the “special military operation” in Ukraine club has greater membership than the ASM fan club. And as for the Everton goal. “Dwelling”. Had away n shite man. Did you actually see it?? Joelinton threw him under a bus with a daft pass. FFS man at least get some facts right. 

[Howay 12496]

17 minutes ago, Slayer said:

It would seem that the let’s make ASM the scapegoat for all goals conceded and the “special military operation” in Ukraine club has greater membership than the ASM fan club. And as for the Everton goal. “Dwelling”. Had away n shite man. Did you actually see it?? Joelinton threw him under a bus with a daft pass. FFS man at least get some facts right. 

 Aye he’s a scape goat. Been running into blind alleys and groups of players for 3 years, but he’s a scapegoat. 
 

He dwelled on the ball, go watch it yourself. I’m more than happy to say Joelinton has been crap recently too, I don’t just make up excuses for players performing poorly. 
 

My facts are fine, I’m just tired of seeing a player constantly fawned over for dribbling the ball around and doing fuck all. I’m also not going to boo, or send messages to the bloke, I’m just voicing my disagreement that he’s some quality player we should all fawn over and are lucky to be watching. 
 

Not sure what the Ukraine bits about. 

[wykikitoon 20168]

It's ASM don't worry.  He is busy googling his name for his game that's all.

[wykikitoon 20168]

Had away baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Is ASM fawned over? By the muppets on sky who don’t watch him every week, maybe. I’d say the opposite is true on here and Twitter. The consensus seems to be he’s luxury, a defensive liability who doesn’t work hard enough off the ball and too often chooses to dribble into a cul de sac when a pass is on.

 

He’s rightly held to a higher standard than most players because he has more skill on the ball than anyone else in the team. Such an infuriating player because he’d be brilliant if he sorted the other stuff out, which is the relatively easier stuff than the natural talent he’s blessed with 

[wykikitoon 20168]

The Athletic last night had a load saying what a grafter he is and how great he is.

[Howay 12496]

16 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Is ASM fawned over? By the muppets on sky who don’t watch him every week, maybe. I’d say the opposite is true on here and Twitter. The consensus seems to be he’s luxury, a defensive liability who doesn’t work hard enough off the ball and too often chooses to dribble into a cul de sac when a pass is on.

 

He’s rightly held to a higher standard than most players because he has more skill on the ball than anyone else in the team. Such an infuriating player because he’d be brilliant if he sorted the other stuff out, which is the relatively easier stuff than the natural talent he’s blessed with 

From what I’ve seen on Twitter if you posted that summary of him as a player people would be jumping all over you. 
 

Stuff like this is common. I know Chaudhry is a comedian, but this sentiment is a lot of what I see on Twitter. Any slight knock on his performances gets this avalanche of people acting like he’s above criticism. 
 

I’m personally just frustrated that he hasn’t improved into the player that can take advantage of his talent. Like I say, personally I’m finished defending him or hoping he stays/plays, I just don’t think he will improve much from what we see which is a bloke who would rather dribble past that extra player than make the pass he should. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Howay

[Christmas Tree 4725]

He’s not a grafter like, but I’m pretty sure that those sharp bursts of speed take their toll in a different way.

 

At the end of the days he’s the sort of player who has and can light up the ground and get you on your feet. 
 

Happy if Howe wants to try and  improve him and happy if Howe wants the £50 mill for someone better.

 

Given the choice I would always like a player of that ilk in the team. Preferably a Beardsley.

[strawb 4268]

I don’t think he is fully fit, I like him and I would keep him next season to see how he gets on with more good players around him

[Howay 12496]

2 minutes ago, strawb said:

I don’t think he is fully fit, I like him and I would keep him next season to see how he gets on with more good players around him

That’s fair, and maybe he isn’t fully fit. I do hope he turns it around and would love to be proven wrong, I’m just at the point where I’m no longer arsed if he stays. It’s the hesitation on a lot of his passes that frustrates me the most with him tbh. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Howay

[Ayatollah Hermione 13873]

Someone once said to me that he plays football like he’s constantly thinking about making it onto YouTube highlight reels and that seems accurate to me

[wykikitoon 20168]

22 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

He’s not a grafter like, but I’m pretty sure that those sharp bursts of speed take their toll in a different way.

 

At the end of the days he’s the sort of player who has and can light up the ground and get you on your feet. 
 

Happy if Howe wants to try and  improve him and happy if Howe wants the £50 mill for someone better.

 

Given the choice I would always like a player of that ilk in the team. Preferably a Beardsley.

Sharp burst of speed?  He takes an age to turn around and has an arse bigger than Tony Yeboah.  I've seen prop forwards run quicker than he was last night.

[Alex 35095]

19 minutes ago, strawb said:

I don’t think he is fully fit, I like him and I would keep him next season to see how he gets on with more good players around him

Definitely agree he isn’t fully fit

[Dr Gloom 21924]

4 hours ago, Howay said:

 Aye he’s a scape goat. Been running into blind alleys and groups of players for 3 years, but he’s a scapegoat. 
 

He dwelled on the ball, go watch it yourself. I’m more than happy to say Joelinton has been crap recently too, I don’t just make up excuses for players performing poorly. 
 

My facts are fine, I’m just tired of seeing a player constantly fawned over for dribbling the ball around and doing fuck all. I’m also not going to boo, or send messages to the bloke, I’m just voicing my disagreement that he’s some quality player we should all fawn over and are lucky to be watching. 
 

Not sure what the Ukraine bits about. 

I guess we follow different people but I’ve been reading more critical than positive stuff about him. Same goes on the podcasts  

[Howay 12496]

28 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I guess we follow different people but I’ve been reading more critical than positive stuff about him. Same goes on the podcasts  

I solely follow Steve Wraith, Holly Blades, and Adam Pearson, so not sure what is wrong with my feed. 

[ohhh_yeah 2967]

 

   

 

 

[ewerk 30620]

There was a piece on The Athletic a couple of weeks ago where his France U-20 coach was making the exact same criticisms of ASM that we’re making now five years later. Clearly he has no desire to change his game and that’s ultimately what is going to hold him back from being a top level player. 
 

This season is about survival but Howe has a long term plan and a system that he will want to implement. If ASM can’t be trusted to perform a role in that system then it’s hard to see how he fits into that. If you look at Liverpool and Man City their teams are obviously full of talented, skilful players but they still work incredibly hard and are disciplined in their roles. They don’t have ten men in a system and one player doing whatever the fuck he wants.

 

Under Bruce we didn’t have any discernible system, shape or tactics so our chances of winning matches basically rested on getting the ball to ASM and hoping he could do something with it in the opponent’s half. Now that we’re evolving as a team he needs to learn that he has to evolve too.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

There was a piece on The Athletic a couple of weeks ago where his France U-20 coach was making the exact same criticisms of ASM that we’re making now five years later. Clearly he has no desire to change his game and that’s ultimately what is going to hold him back from being a top level player. 
 

This season is about survival but Howe has a long term plan and a system that he will want to implement. If ASM can’t be trusted to perform a role in that system then it’s hard to see how he fits into that. If you look at Liverpool and Man City their teams are obviously full of talented, skilful players but they still work incredibly hard and are disciplined in their roles. They don’t have ten men in a system and one player doing whatever the fuck he wants.

 

Under Bruce we didn’t have any discernible system, shape or tactics so our chances of winning matches basically rested on getting the ball to ASM and hoping he could do something with it in the opponent’s half. Now that we’re evolving as a team he needs to learn that he has to evolve too.

I said it already in this thread but the stuff you talk about - tactical discipline, decision making and work rate off the ball - is the relatively easy stuff. It can be drilled into a player if the player is prepared to listen and learn. The natural skill ASM has can’t be coached into most players.

 

It’s up to him now. I’d give him one more season, alongside better players who potentially keep him on the bench if he doesn’t step up, before selling him. See if he has the desire to make the necessary changes to his game. 

[Alex 35095]

Aye. I do have a bit of time for him because him and Wilson basically kept us in the division under Bruce but I think that’s a decent assessment, ewerk. I would love to be wrong because there’s so few players around with that dribbling ability 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Alex

[trophyshy 7083]

Even when he makes the right decision he often fucks it up.  His pass to Bruno near the end was behind him, making it so much harder to score.  At this level such simple errors become glaring.  
 

 

[RobinRobin 11282]

5 minutes ago, trophyshy said:

Even when he makes the right decision he often fucks it up.  His pass to Bruno near the end was behind him, making it so much harder to score.  At this level such simple errors become glaring.  
 

 

To be (slightly) fair, it did get a slight deflection but he did take too long to make the right pass. However the fact he did see the pass may mean Eddie can coach him to do it more often. 

[trophyshy 7083]

Deflection eh?  There’s always an excuse for him. 

[Craig 6682]

40 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I said it already in this thread but the stuff you talk about - tactical discipline, decision making and work rate off the ball - is the relatively easy stuff. It can be drilled into a player if the player is prepared to listen and learn. The natural skill ASM has can’t be coached into most players.

 

It’s up to him now. I’d give him one more season, alongside better players who potentially keep him on the bench if he doesn’t step up, before selling him. See if he has the desire to make the necessary changes to his game. 

 

If £50m is wafted under our noses we should rip anyone's fucking hands off tbh. We'll never command that figure for him again.

[wykikitoon 20168]

That pass to Bruno at the end was on for an age but the greedy fucker wanted the glory.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

1 hour ago, Craig said:

 

If £50m is wafted under our noses we should rip anyone's fucking hands off tbh. We'll never command that figure for him again.

Possibly. But it’s not like we’re desperate to cash in anymore is it?

 

I think we will give him one more year - another season where he isn’t the main man but has to work to earn his place will either make or break him. If he remains as inconsistent and frustrating then sell him next summer.