World Cup 2022

[Craig 6700]

23 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

If France win on Sunday they’d have won three world cups and a European championship since 1998.

 

And every single one of them will have been with Deschamps as either captain or manager.

[RobinRobin 11566]

2 minutes ago, Craig said:

 

And every single one of them will have been with Deschamps as either captain or manager.

He's still a cunt. 

[Toonpack 9952]

I may have a new team to support

 

[The Fish 10966]

21 hours ago, ewerk said:

When’s the last time England actually performed well at a tournament before Southgate? 96? Southgate has had you lot putting in credible performances for three tournaments in a row. But for bad refereeing and Harry Kane missing a pen you could be looking at a great chance to win the WC. They’re the fine margins between disappointment and becoming a legend. It was encouraging to see Southgate not revert to a back five yesterday and show some belief in his own side’s quality.

 

It would be very foolish of him to walk now. Despite the solid work he’s done for England there wouldn’t exactly be a number of PL clubs clamouring to appoint him which says a lot about how international football is viewed these days.

Yeah, I don't get the hate for Southgate, done better than a stack of managers have. Like you say, he's been on the shitty end of some fine margins or suspect decisions. Tough shit, that's knock-out football. Honestly? I genuinely think it's English exceptionalism at play.

 

I wonder if the expectations around the England side suffer because of the quality on show in the Premier League, which is erroneously considered a reflection of English football. England have a decent international squad, but there are still glaring weaknesses; CB, Centre Mid etc. Sure England have got a chance in the tournaments, but the expectations are that England should win the fucking thing and play great football on the way. 

[acrossthepond 878]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, and I'm also going to preface it by saying I didn't see the game or any of England's play in this WC, but I read this morning Southgate has won as many games in knock-out competition as managers in the previous 48 years have combined. 

 

We could do far, far worse (and have.) I don't know if we could do much better. He's transformed playing for England from a hassle, an obligation that "big-name" dickheads of the past had to carve out time for into something that our players actually want to do, that they actually care about and view as a privilege again. Keep. 

[Tom 14013]

 

 

[Craig 6700]

Southgate's reign has been effective and relatively successful. A final, a semi-final and a QF - not even Bobby can match that. But for me there is something missing and it's difficult to put your finger on it. I just feel he plays it too safe at times and what we see comes across as quite boring. I think back to the Euros last summer and it was trying to replicate Italy - get the lead and then defend for your life. 

I dunno, maybe we are absolutely spoiled by watching a high press NUFC on a weekly basis but Southgate's England is far from enthralling. 

 

That said if he does walk there's logistically only one place they'll come looking to replace him so from that perspective, I hope he does stick it out.

[wykikitoon 20739]

 

1 hour ago, acrossthepond said:

I'm sure this has been mentioned, and I'm also going to preface it by saying I didn't see the game or any of England's play in this WC, but I read this morning Southgate has won as many games in knock-out competition as managers in the previous 48 years have combined. 

 

We could do far, far worse (and have.) I don't know if we could do much better. He's transformed playing for England from a hassle, an obligation that "big-name" dickheads of the past had to carve out time for into something that our players actually want to do, that they actually care about and view as a privilege again. Keep. 

 

How are the defining knock-out wins?  I.e out of the group stages?  If its that then I get him as 5 wins, the others combined have 8.  Whilst looking at this it shows how shit we are at the Euro's.

 

The biggest question is, if Southgate walked.  Who would he be replaced by?  The whole squad togetherness is great and we no longer seem to have a manager hunted by our press. He protects the players and certainly come across as a decent human being.

 

When Southgate first got the job he said he wouldn't be picking players based on who they were and players would be picked on their club form.  That lasted all of 5 minutes.  If he kept his word Pickford and Maguire wouldn't have been near the first team.  Maguire tbf in the group stages had an alright tournament.  The shite I saw on social media about 'how he's proved doubters wrong' was laughable.

For me with Southgate is he is technically inept with subs and reacting to on field changes.  The French were absolutely shitting their pants at Saka.  So what do we do?  Take him off,  I still haven't read anything about a possible injury.  Henderson was pony against the French.  He lost the ball countless times, played it back when we had players forward.  Yet Southgate waits until the 78th fucking minute to make subs.  It's knockout fucking football.  Replace the mackem cunt and try and change it up.  Get Wilson on for him and have Kane and Wilson up there. Or take him off for Philips.  Not bastard Mason Mount who's fucking shite for England and has a shite season to boot.  

 

Kane looked fucked in previous games, but Southgate seems to have a shares on the dribbling cunt breaking the record.  Same reason he plays him against part timers like Andorra instead of trying out new players.  

 

I just find him and his football boring as fuck.  I mean some of the football under Rafa was dour, but that's because we didn't have the players.  He has people like Grealish, Saka, Maddison, Foden etc.  But most f the football I have watched this WC was Stones and Maguire passing it between them and people wanking over our possession stats. 

 

I don't know were we go from here like.  I think that's the best chance we will ever have.  I cannot see another tournament where Brazil, Spain, Portugal etc go out so early.

[Toonpack 9952]

10 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

 

 

 Not bastard Mason Mount who's fucking shite for England and has a shite season to boot.  

 

 

 

The Mason Mount who won the penalty ? That Mason Mount ? (aye it was a shit/stupid challenge but Mount was the one who got himself into the position to be fouled).

 

If Kane scored, Mount being subbed on would be seen as genius.

 

 

[Tom 14013]

England were fucking robbed like  

[aimaad22 4222]

I'd say tough luck on going out but I know most of you lot dont really toss about the national team  

 

I think this was one of the better England performances without a doubt. Yet not quite the unjust result that some are making it out to be, France got the result without really being at their best. They changed gears when they needed to and got the goals when they were required. Perhaps people were expecting Mbappe to run riot.

 

I get the points in favor of Southgate and agree certain players in the squad aren't really that great (Maguire and Henderson still playing ffs) The biggest problem with Southgate is his unwillingness to take risks and that's the one thing he hasn't been able to change about England in major tournaments. The Euros were there for the taking, so was this Cup. He also doesnt seem to be able to drop his favorite players in spite of form and that also makes his systems rigid. 

 

Hate to say it but Howe would win a tournament with this squad in the next 6 years if he got them now. 

 

 

[wykikitoon 20739]

6 minutes ago, Tom said:

England were fucking robbed like  

We were robbed aye.  The ref was well out of his depth and inconsistent as fuck.

[PaddockLad 17657]

You can’t get a pen decision overturned on VAR then in the next breath say you were fuckin robbed lads, think about it

 

 

[wykikitoon 20739]

One thing to say on the tournament from an England perspective. Bellingham, superb. 

[NJS 4411]

The ref was shite but I didn't it was a foul for the first goal though I do think Pope would have saved it. 

 

The foul on Kane should have been a free-kick outside the box. 

 

I agree with Wykiki about subs and Henderson being shit. 

[Alex 35587]

I thought the ref was poor and seemed a bit out of his depth. But the thing is about the first goal is it was so long after the challenge on Saka that you couldn’t even check on VAR. The French scorer had too much time and I think a better keeper would’ve saved it. I’ve already done me dinger in here re: my feelings about Maguire and wtf he was doing for the second goal. That’s what cost us the match. Not the ref 

[The Fish 10966]

18 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

One thing to say on the tournament from an England perspective. Bellingham, superb. 

So why do you want Southgate gone? But for 'getting robbed' England would be in the Semi Finals of the World Cup with a decent chance of getting to the final. No England manager has achieved the same degree of success as Southgate has for something like 40 years?

 

You say we've got good players like Saka, Grealish, Maddison etal. But Southgate's still got a pretty shallow pool to fish in for CBs, Centre Mids, left backs. England just aren't that good.

[Toonpack 9952]

54 minutes ago, Tom said:

England were fucking robbed like  

 

No they weren't, poor ref (aren't they all) and two pretty even teams but they missed a penalty and a pretty near on sitter (Maguire header) THAT is why they lost.

 

We were robbed against Liverpool, England weren't.

[wykikitoon 20739]

38 minutes ago, The Fish said:

So why do you want Southgate gone? But for 'getting robbed' England would be in the Semi Finals of the World Cup with a decent chance of getting to the final. No England manager has achieved the same degree of success as Southgate has for something like 40 years?

 

You say we've got good players like Saka, Grealish, Maddison etal. But Southgate's still got a pretty shallow pool to fish in for CBs, Centre Mids, left backs. England just aren't that good.

 

There's just something about him that doesn't excite me.  Is it because of years of let down's I have emotionally checked out?  It's all good beating the likes of Malta and Iran etc but when he comes up against the teams like France, Italy he hasn't done it.

If he does walk I will fear Howe going for it.  But surely the pull of doing something here would be enough?  Who knows. 

 

If we gauge our success on a runners up medal and that's it, maybe that's our problem.

[Ayatollah Hermione 14053]

Got to say like, Southgate plays some dodgy, cautious football but I prefer it to Capello and Hodgson who did the same with worse results and dogshit performances to boot 

[Craig 6700]

I think you need to reel it in a bit Wykiki. Southgate is overly cautious and he clearly has players who he trusts in, but you're wrong to say he's 'tactically inept'. 

Dave is right - the selection pool, particularly at CB just isn't that rich right now - certainly not to the levels it was 20 years ago when you had Campbell, Terry, Ferdinand, Woodgate and King vying for the spots. What would you have preferred to see? We can all look at with black and white eyes and ask why didn't he take Burn but for me there's 2 issues: 1) he hasn't played regulalry at CB this season and 2) I don't think it's wise to take an uncapped player to a major tournament - especially in a position that isn't a strength within the squad. I also think the WC being in November/December and therefore there not being the traditional pre-tournament friendlies for someone like Burn to be tested was likely a big factor in the decision making.

 

What I will say is that if Southgate HAD taken an uncapped player instead of Maguire, played him and there was a huge fuck up, Southgate would be absolutely slaughtered by the press and fans alike for not going with his established players. 

Also, if the Ben White situation is as its being reported then credit needs to be given for them handling that professionally and quickly. Contrast it to the fiasco when Roy Keane was sent home from the World Cup for falling out with McCarthy played out in front of the world's media.

 

We need to not lose sight of the fact that England lost narrowly to arguably the best footballing nation on the planet right now. They nullified their main attacking threat and save for two errors, we might we have been preparing for a semi-final. Contrast that to the side who a little over 6 years ago were played off the park by Iceland. Most of the realists on here had us lasting as far as the QFs and believing France would be a step too far - it came to be just that so whilst we're desperately disappointed to be going home already, we didn't underperform.

 

The sense of unity he's got that group of players believing cannot be understated either - you watch Pickford rightly as the cameraman to move away and give Kane some respect. Then remember Rooney walking off the pitch and moaning down the camera at the England fans booing their performance. I sincerely hope Southgate continues, and not just because it'll keep the FA claws out of Eddie Howe.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Craig

[wykikitoon 20739]

1 minute ago, Craig said:

I think you need to reel it in a bit Wykiki. Southgate is overly cautious and he clearly has players who he trusts in, but you're wrong to say he's 'tactically inept'. 

Dave is right - the selection pool, particularly at CB just isn't that rich right now - certainly not to the levels it was 20 years ago when you had Campbell, Terry, Ferdinand, Woodgate and King vying for the spots. What would you have preferred to see? We can all look at with black and white eyes and ask why didn't he take Burn but for me there's 2 issues: 1) he hasn't played regulalry at CB this season and 2) I don't think it's wise to take an uncapped player to a major tournament - especially in a position that isn't a strength within the squad. I also think the WC being in November/December and therefore there not being the traditional pre-tournament friendlies for someone like Burn to be tested was likely a big factor in the decision making.

 

What I will say is that if Southgate HAD taken an uncapped player instead of Maguire, played him and there was a huge fuck up, Southgate would be absolutely slaughtered by the press and fans alike for not going with his established players. 

Also, if the Ben White situation is as its being reported then credit needs to be given for them handling that professionally and quickly. Contrast it to the fiasco when Roy Keane was sent home from the World Cup for falling out with McCarthy played out in front of the world's media.

 

We need to not lose sight of the fact that England lost narrowly to arguably the best footballing nation on the planet right now. They nullified their main attacking threat and save for two errors, we might we have been preparing for a semi-final. Contrast that to the side who a little over 6 years ago were played off the park by Iceland. Most of the realists on here had us lasting as far as the QFs and believing France would be a step too far - it came to be just that so whilst we're desperately disappointed to be going home already, we didn't underperform.

 

The sense of unity he's got that group of players believing cannot be understated either - you watch Pickford rightly as the cameraman to move away and give Kane some respect. Then remember Rooney walking off the pitch and moaning down the camera at the England fans booing their performance. I sincerely hope Southgate continues, and not just because it'll keep the FA claws out of Eddie Howe.

 

No Fish is bang on about the strength in depth in certain positions.  But this is where friendlies and other non-critical games come in.  He doesn't use them to try these players out.  But I shall be honest.  I cannot remember many previous managers doing the same.  But playing the likes of Kane in lesser games when he could be trying out players.

 

You're right about the unity and the Ben White situation and that's down to him as a person.
 

The biggest thing for me, is his subs, especially timing of the subs.  Take Euro's final.  Putting two lads on, just for pens and then getting seconds to 'warm up'  Just mad.  Putting Grealish on with 30s to go on Saturday.  Why?  What's he going to do in that time?

Let's say he does walk.  What sort of club would he get in the Prem?  You would think his stock has risen with all the unity and biggest wins and knockouts people talk about.  Liverpool? Chelsea? Us?

Would you swap Howe for him if Howe took he FA's card?

[wykikitoon 20739]

Infact that's comparing apples and oranges the club thing so scrap it. 

[Craig 6700]

No I wouldn't. But I don't think he'd walk to join a PL club, I think he'd walk because he's had enough. The comments he's made about what happened at Wolves (presumably the Nations League draw against Italy) definitely suggests he's considering walking.

I agree with you about the subs but perversely I think that's a product of him being over-cautious. I think he sticks with plan A too long under the concern that he changes it and it goes wrong then he's fucked up - ultimately meaning he brings them on too late. 

 

One thing that he has in absolute spades is deep and heartfelt passion for the role. He is England through and through - probably more so than any other England manager in my lifetime and the desire for him to succeed stems I feel from him wanting his national team to succeed, irrespective of who's managing. By contrast the likes of Eriksson & Capello were there for the paycheck whilst McClaren & Allardyce saw it as something to have on their CV. Southgate was involved in the FA setup long before he became head coach of the England team. The likes of Sancho, Bellingham, etc have become household names in this country largely because of him.

[wykikitoon 20739]

Would Potter be a decent replacement for him?