Transfers, 2024-25 season

[Andrew 5136]

42 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

The great Toontastic Left Centreback debate. On it rages.

 

This is how you know @The Fish has won the battle for your souls btw. We're about 5 minutes from someone suggesting that Botman's ideal playing role is a Left footed Libero and discussing the impact this has on the balance of the rest of the squad

You can't be playing a Libero with a sweeper keeper.

 

Fucking idiot.

[OTF 8403]

I agree with most of @The Fish's points on Almiron and Kelly, but also on some of @Toonpack's regarding Kelly. For me, we'd have to get a solid amount to get rid of Kelly. Though he did technically come on a free such signings are normally bolstered by higher than normal sign-on fees and wages. Getting the wages off the books might be of benefit if we didn't have an aging centre back population with pending contact expiries. I believe Howe will see Kelly as the replacement for Lascelles as a fourth choice centre back. We know the club are still looking to bring in Botman's longer term partner to replace Schär who is likely to only have another season in him at this level (he's only a few months younger than Paul Dummett). Likewise Dan Burn is of the age where he may only have another year or two in him. Under Howe's stewardship we've seen Lascelles look better than ever and Krafth as well. Kelly has the physical attributes l, so if he has the right attitude (and you assume he does based on us signing him with Howe's history with him) then there's room for improvement as well. If we sell him we'll have to buy someone else. Krafth, Lascelles and Schär's contracts all expire in 6 months time. I expect we'd be looking to extend Schär's but likely not either of the others unless we sell Kelly.

 

Almiron would go with my blessing. He's always given his all, has a great attitude but has been far from his best when given chances recently. His purple patch was a thing of beauty, and picking up a premier league player of the month award is nothing to sneeze at. The most one legged player I recall playing for us.

Edited January 17 by OTF

[Dr Gloom 23604]

9 hours ago, strawb said:

He literally said “can only play on the left”, incorrect

yeah, I disagree with that. Burn and Botman have looked great together.
 

I’m just saying it’s suboptimal in the modern game where the emphasis is on playing out from the back. In the future we ideally have Botman at LCB and a player of a similar technical level with a right foot at RCB. But as things stand, you can’t drop Dan Burn so I think Schar is the one to miss out against Bournemouth.

 

Saturday will be the first time Eddie has had to make this decision since Botman’s return because schar apparently had an illness on Wednesday but will back for the weekend. It’ll be interesting to see which way Howe goes. It would be very harsh if either a Burn or Botman were dropped 

[ewerk 33151]

4 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

you can’t drop Dan Burn

 

Burn has played every minute of every league game apart from one where he was suspended. It's a testament to his fitness but surely he needs a rest now that we have other options available?

[Gemmill 49840]

In the short term, it's more likely Burn keeps his place and Botman is rotated out for Schar, to manage his game time given how long he's been out.

 

It makes sense from a fitness point of view but is also exactly how Howe does stuff, not upsetting the player who has been there all season for him. 

[Dr Gloom 23604]

I’d be surprised if it isn’t burn and Botman again against Bournemouth. I agree about the need to rotate but Howe is usually reluctant to change a winning team, even when the games are coming thick and fast

[RobElliott 1793]

Makes sense to play Burn as teams often lob the ball forward to beat our press and his aerial stats are fantastic so I don't see him being dropped

[wykikitoon 22774]

I think there will be a little rotation but not much.  Its great to have the options.  I think Schar will be the one out though.  But agree that Botman's game time will be managed more.

[The Fish 11313]

9 hours ago, Rayvin said:

The great Toontastic Left Centreback debate. On it rages.

 

This is how you know @The Fish has won the battle for your souls btw. We're about 5 minutes from someone suggesting that Botman's ideal playing role is a Left footed Libero and discussing the impact this has on the balance of the rest of the squad

[wykikitoon 22774]

Just now, Toonpack said:

{quote]  [\quote]

 

[Dazzler 11731]

9 hours ago, Andrew said:

You can't be playing a Libero with a sweeper keeper.

 

Fucking idiot.

Who can't? I won the league with PSG with three attacking Liberos and an attacking sweeper keeper on FM. Yes, it was the worst league performance since the Qataris came in with only a 2 point lead at the top, yes we were knocked out in the opening stages of the champions league, and yes we were on the wrong side of a cup upset against a minnow in the French Cup - but don't tell me what can't be done with the right mindset and an unfairly put together squad of mercenaries.

[Toonpack 11343]

17 hours ago, The Fish said:

 

Schar's reportedly in talks for a new contract and Burn's deal runs out in 2026. Lascelles and Krafth will be moved on, no doubt, but that's a problem for the Summer when we'll need to replace our - check notes- 4th and 5th choice CBs. 

 

Kelly absolutely does not have pace to burn, that's just not true. He's not ponderous, but there's no way I'd call him quick. He's 26 and hasn't shown much more promise than Premier League squad player. He's not going to be as good as Schar, let alone Botman. so at best he's going to be a squad player. 

 

The £10m pure profit is PSR accounting. That £10m on the books could pay for a much more expensive replacement. He cost us nothing in transfer fees so whatever we sell him for is pure profit. Oh, and there's absolutely no fucking way we paid £6m as a signing/agent fee for Lloyd Kelly. In 23/24 we paid £18.8m on agent fees, when we signed;  Tonali, Barnes, Livramento, Minteh, and Hall. There's no way Lloyd Kelly's agent got nearly 32% of their combined outlay.

 

 

 

Eddie might like the lad, he may think he's a super cool fun dude, but the lad is fundamentally not a top 6 centre back and if we want to improve the squad, he's exactly the type of player we need to be moving on. Him, Almiron, Longstaff and Dubravka (in the summer). 

 

That post is about as valid/accurate as your doorframe measurements. 

 

Point one:

"a problem for the summer" to replace our THIRD (not 4th/5th) choice CB when we can avoid that expense entirely because (checks notes) we already own the fucker.

 

Next season CB's will likely be: New RCB (with pace) back-up Schar (if re-signs) LCB Botman, back-up Burn, Kelly gives a 3rd Option for both in a Krafth (who's a FB in reality) like way.

 

*Kelly can also cover LB in emergency. (anyone who mentions Tino in the LB cover conversation needs a paracetamol or 10)

 

Point two:

Pace - In 22/23 Opta monitored all players and of ALL Prem defenders Kelly was top 10 (8th fastest of all CB/FB's), he's marginally slower than Gordon by about 1kmh. Compared to our other defenders he's Usain fucking Bolt.

 

Point Three: 

Costs/PSR - So the 5 players mentioned cost us agent fee's of £18.8 mill, that's an average of £3.75 mill, you completely ignore any signing-on fee (which I mentioned) which lets say is 10% of his value, that's around another £1.5 Million (he's valued at €18 mill on transfermarkt) so we have costs associated with signing him of  £5.25 Million, which is just a tad closer to £6 million that "pure profit" is.

 

Point Four:

"Eddie might like the lad, he may think he's a super cool fun dude" - yeah that's nailed Eddie's motivation/methods in squad building. Christ! it's preposterous, and not a little disrespectful to Mr Howe. 

 

"but the lad is fundamentally not a top 6 centre back" - at last, a correct assertion, no he's not a starting level top 6 defender BUT we are years away from having starting level like for like substitute/second choice players on the bench.

 

"he's exactly the type of player we need to be moving on" - in time yes, but not just now. He's 26 he's got years in him (unlike the other CB's), he covers two squad places with one body, ideally we'll keep him a couple of years and some kid will develop to replace him/those ahead of him.

 

Going by the comments on here some are obviously so concerned about growing our commercial income they're hoping to make our CB's attractive for sponsorship by fucking SAGA.

 

In the summer we need at minimum: GK, RCB, RW, CF (I suspect if the fucker gets fit and stays that way for back end of the season, they may extend Wilson and continue to develop Osula), back up RB, given Tino's a kid that'll probably be another Kelly type given you are unlikely to entice another Tino level kid to play second fiddle. We don't need to do same for Hall because we have Targett (although probably gone) Burn (oil tanker at FB) and (checks notes) Kelly. That's one hell of a lot of needs.

 

We have plenty of needs, we don't need to create another one.

 

Finally Diego's post - least said the better, he had patently just woken up from his siesta with a monster hangover having been hammering that sangria since dawn.

[Gemmill 49840]

According to Hope's dispatches from this morning's press conference, Howe was asked "where is the Marc Guehi money", and he gave a response which was basically:

 

Had we bought Guehi in the summer, it would have meant another sale before June 30th. And a more significant sale than just Almiron. 

 

As it stands, selling Almiron and not buying makes us safe for June 30th, so that's the plan. 

 

And actually the Bruno/Botman window was Jan 22 wasn't it? Which means that doesn't drop out of our PSR calc til July 1 of this year. So we could be set up for a decent summer of spending, maybe. 

 

But anyway that's meant to be why there'll be nowt spent this month. 

[Gemmill 49840]

Worth a watch actually, and not that long. 

 

 

[Gemmill 49840]

OK so it sounds like Howe's lying then. 

[ewerk 33151]

6 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

And actually the Bruno/Botman window was Jan 22 wasn't it? Which means that doesn't drop out of our PSR calc til July 1 of this year. So we could be set up for a decent summer of spending, maybe. 

 

Their fees are amortised over the length of their contract, not over the three year PSR cycle. "So called accountant".

Edited January 17 by ewerk

[Dr Gloom 23604]

shots fired

[Gemmill 49840]

It was YOU that initially floated the idea of them dropping out of the calculation, you filthy bogtrotter. So don't you DARE come at me about mentioning that. 

[ewerk 33151]

Just now, Gemmill said:

It was YOU that initially floated the idea of them dropping out of the calculation, you filthy bogtrotter. So don't you DARE come at me about mentioning that. 

 

I did nothing of the sort, you filthy liar. What I said was that we made massive losses in 22/23 and those will drop out of the calculation. I understand you take everything I say as gospel but that only works if you have the comprehension skills to understand the gifts I'm giving you. Did you get your ACA at the bottom of a box of Rice Krispies?

[Gemmill 49840]

I got it by passing the exams that YOU COULDN'T HACK. Now get back to those pigs! 

[ewerk 33151]

That's a timely reminder not to throw pearls before swine.

[wykikitoon 22774]

Wish he would look at the camera rather than the display the mong.

[ewerk 33151]

Just now, wykikitoon said:

Wish he would look at the camera rather than the display the mong.

 

You still on about Harvey Price?

[The Fish 11313]

4 hours ago, Toonpack said:

 

That post is about as valid/accurate as your doorframe measurements. 

 

Point one:

"a problem for the summer" to replace our THIRD (not 4th/5th) choice CB when we can avoid that expense entirely because (checks notes) we already own the fucker.

Next season CB's will likely be: New RCB (with pace) back-up Schar (if re-signs) LCB Botman, back-up Burn, Kelly gives a 3rd Option for both in a Krafth (who's a FB in reality) like way.

 

*Kelly can also cover LB in emergency. (anyone who mentions Tino in the LB cover conversation needs a paracetamol or 10)

Kelly is not our 3rd choice Centreback. 

Botman, Schar, Burn. So he's 4th at best.

 

You then go on to list what next season situation will be, pushing your boy Kelly further down the pecking order. Botman, Burn, New RCB, Schar, and then Kelly. Unless of course he's usurped by one of the young CBs we've been accumulating for the youth team. 

 

So far, you're arguing that we keep a hold of our 4th, or 5th choice centreback. We'd get no money for Schar or Burn. We definitely don't want to lose Botman. So Kelly is our most saleable asset in an area of the pitch where we actually have depth.

 

Put that up your shitter and fluff it.

4 hours ago, Toonpack said:

 

 

Point two:

Pace - In 22/23 Opta monitored all players and of ALL Prem defenders Kelly was top 10 (8th fastest of all CB/FB's), he's marginally slower than Gordon by about 1kmh. Compared to our other defenders he's Usain fucking Bolt.

 

Now find me an up to date and accurate reading of his speed. If it's not nigh on as fast as Gordon I think it's fair to say he doesn't have "Pace to burn".

 

4 hours ago, Toonpack said:

 

Point Three: 

Costs/PSR - So the 5 players mentioned cost us agent fee's of £18.8 mill, that's an average of £3.75 mill, you completely ignore any signing-on fee (which I mentioned) which lets say is 10% of his value, that's around another £1.5 Million (he's valued at €18 mill on transfermarkt) so we have costs associated with signing him of  £5.25 Million, which is just a tad closer to £6 million that "pure profit" is.

 

There is a LOT of assumption being passed off as fact in this post.

You're assuming that the fees grow steadily with the value of the player, which isn't necessarily true. Kelly isn't a young lad with loads of potential, like Tino or Hall. He's not an established Champions League player like Tonali. He's not a goal scoring attacking midfielder valued at around £40m. 

 

He's Lloyd Kelly, a middling 26yr old Centre Back, on a free, from Bournemouth. 

 

4 hours ago, Toonpack said:

 

Point Four:

"Eddie might like the lad, he may think he's a super cool fun dude" - yeah that's nailed Eddie's motivation/methods in squad building. Christ! it's preposterous, and not a little disrespectful to Mr Howe. 

Kelly being a solid pro is not a good enough reason to keep him around when we can get c£10m for him. I wasn't disrespecting Eddie Howe, I was disrespecting you.

 

4 hours ago, Toonpack said:

 

"but the lad is fundamentally not a top 6 centre back" - at last, a correct assertion, no he's not a starting level top 6 defender BUT we are years away from having starting level like for like substitute/second choice players on the bench.

 

"he's exactly the type of player we need to be moving on" - in time yes, but not just now. He's 26 he's got years in him (unlike the other CB's), he covers two squad places with one body, ideally we'll keep him a couple of years and some kid will develop to replace him/those ahead of him.

 

He's Jack Colback, Jamall Lascelles, Isaac Hayden. He's not good enough for where we are, let alone where we're aiming to be. He's exactly the kind of player who, if you saw he was starting against Bournemouth you'd suddenly be very concerned. If we can sell him now for £10m, that is the most we're ever going to get for him. And we can bring in a warm body to replace him for less. Maybe a warm body who has the potential to push for a start. 

 

4 hours ago, Toonpack said:

 

Going by the comments on here some are obviously so concerned about growing our commercial income they're hoping to make our CB's attractive for sponsorship by fucking SAGA.

 

Have you not been paying attention? Growing the business side of the club is the only way we can compete on the football side of the club. Selling Kelly makes good business sense and also good football sense.

 

4 hours ago, Toonpack said:

 

In the summer we need at minimum: GK, RCB, RW, CF (I suspect if the fucker gets fit and stays that way for back end of the season, they may extend Wilson and continue to develop Osula), back up RB, given Tino's a kid that'll probably be another Kelly type given you are unlikely to entice another Tino level kid to play second fiddle. We don't need to do same for Hall because we have Targett (although probably gone) Burn (oil tanker at FB) and (checks notes) Kelly. That's one hell of a lot of needs.

 

Club seems fixated on Trafford, so we'll possibly seem him join.

I agree we need a RCB, and a RW as soon as possible.

I agree that Wilson will likely get an extension and I hope Osula improves. So CF isn't a priority for the summer, but lets just say it is.

Back up RB will likely be a Krafth/Kelly type player, but it's a want not a need, but again lets say that it is. 

 

At most that's 5 players.

 

Since the takeover we've signed 5-6 players each season. Hell, this summer just gone we signed 4 already (not counting Hall) and we were all pretty nonplussed.

 

So in this window, say we sign a goalkeeper, or the backup RB, or maybe even the RW or Centreback we need. That one or more of the 5 areas you insist are priorities. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Toonpack said:

 

We have plenty of needs, we don't need to create another one.

 

Finally Diego's post - least said the better, he had patently just woken up from his siesta with a monster hangover having been hammering that sangria since dawn.

 

Diego knows his onions. 

I know my shit.

 

 

[Toonpack 11343]

You know shit, that's for sure.

 

So Schar is ahead of Kelly for LCB is he ??

 

I'll destroy the rest of your post later.