Transfers, 2024-25 season

[Diego21 2150]

There's no point in having Kelly in the squad. It had him while Botman was injured (and Lascelles).

A left-footed centre-back can only play on the left side of the centre-backs. We have Burn, Kelly and now Botman. We have to get rid of one.

If we want a fifth centre-back (which we could say, when Lascelles is there, that could be Kratfh) it should be a right-footed one.

Edited yesterday at 18:35 by Diego21

[Holden McGroin 7046]

1 hour ago, Diego21 said:

There's no point in having Kelly in the squad. It had him while Botman was injured (and Lascelles).

A left-footed centre-back can only play on the left side of the centre-backs. We have Burn, Kelly and now Botman. We have to get rid of one.

If we want a fifth centre-back (which we could say, when Lascelles is there, that could be Kratfh) it should be a right-footed one.

Diego has spoken. I rest my case. 

[Gemmill 47711]

Diego just released his "Frog Chorus".

[Isegrim 10056]

2 hours ago, Diego21 said:

A left-footed centre-back can only play on the left side of the centre-backs.

You should have told Botman before yesterday tbh.

[strawb 4484]

Aye that’s patently nonsense, all 5 of our midfielders/wingers  are right footed and nobody bats an eyelid. Loads of pairs of centre backs are both right footed.

 

 

[Dr Gloom 22787]

It’s not that you can’t play two lefties at CB but ideally you want a left footer at LCB and a right footer at RCB. Playing out from the back is such a big part of the game now and it makes that easier.

 

Having said that, I think Schar’s got his work cut out to get back in the team. His form has been up and down. Burn has immense all season and Botman looks so much better coming back from injury this time compared to last season. He should keep his place for Bournemouth 

Edited 22 hours ago by Dr Gloom

[strawb 4484]

32 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

It’s not that you can’t play two lefties at CB but ideally you want a left footer at LCB and a right footer at RCB. Playing out from the back is such a big part of the game now and it makes that easier.

 

Having said that, I think Schar’s got his work cut out to get back in the team. His form has been up and down. Burn has immense all season and Botman looks so much better coming back from injury this time compared to last season. He should keep his place for Bournemouth 

He literally said “can only play on the left”, incorrect

[Rayvin 5621]

The great Toontastic Left Centreback debate. On it rages.

 

This is how you know @The Fish has won the battle for your souls btw. We're about 5 minutes from someone suggesting that Botman's ideal playing role is a Left footed Libero and discussing the impact this has on the balance of the rest of the squad

[Andrew 4993]

42 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

The great Toontastic Left Centreback debate. On it rages.

 

This is how you know @The Fish has won the battle for your souls btw. We're about 5 minutes from someone suggesting that Botman's ideal playing role is a Left footed Libero and discussing the impact this has on the balance of the rest of the squad

You can't be playing a Libero with a sweeper keeper.

 

Fucking idiot.

[OTF 7903]

I agree with most of @The Fish's points on Almiron and Kelly, but also on some of @Toonpack's regarding Kelly. For me, we'd have to get a solid amount to get rid of Kelly. Though he did technically come on a free such signings are normally bolstered by higher than normal sign-on fees and wages. Getting the wages off the books might be of benefit if we didn't have an aging centre back population with pending contact expiries. I believe Howe will see Kelly as the replacement for Lascelles as a fourth choice centre back. We know the club are still looking to bring in Botman's longer term partner to replace Schär who is likely to only have another season in him at this level (he's only a few months younger than Paul Dummett). Likewise Dan Burn is of the age where he may only have another year or two in him. Under Howe's stewardship we've seen Lascelles look better than ever and Krafth as well. Kelly has the physical attributes l, so if he has the right attitude (and you assume he does based on us signing him with Howe's history with him) then there's room for improvement as well. If we sell him we'll have to buy someone else. Krafth, Lascelles and Schär's contracts all expire in 6 months time. I expect we'd be looking to extend Schär's but likely not either of the others unless we sell Kelly.

 

Almiron would go with my blessing. He's always given his all, has a great attitude but has been far from his best when given chances recently. His purple patch was a thing of beauty, and picking up a premier league player of the month award is nothing to sneeze at. The most one legged player I recall playing for us.

Edited 16 hours ago by OTF

[Dr Gloom 22787]

9 hours ago, strawb said:

He literally said “can only play on the left”, incorrect

yeah, I disagree with that. Burn and Botman have looked great together.
 

I’m just saying it’s suboptimal in the modern game where the emphasis is on playing out from the back. In the future we ideally have Botman at LCB and a player of a similar technical level with a right foot at RCB. But as things stand, you can’t drop Dan Burn so I think Schar is the one to miss out against Bournemouth.

 

Saturday will be the first time Eddie has had to make this decision since Botman’s return because schar apparently had an illness on Wednesday but will back for the weekend. It’ll be interesting to see which way Howe goes. It would be very harsh if either a Burn or Botman were dropped 

[ewerk 31749]

4 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

you can’t drop Dan Burn

 

Burn has played every minute of every league game apart from one where he was suspended. It's a testament to his fitness but surely he needs a rest now that we have other options available?

[Gemmill 47711]

In the short term, it's more likely Burn keeps his place and Botman is rotated out for Schar, to manage his game time given how long he's been out.

 

It makes sense from a fitness point of view but is also exactly how Howe does stuff, not upsetting the player who has been there all season for him. 

[Dr Gloom 22787]

I’d be surprised if it isn’t burn and Botman again against Bournemouth. I agree about the need to rotate but Howe is usually reluctant to change a winning team, even when the games are coming thick and fast

[RobElliott 1693]

Makes sense to play Burn as teams often lob the ball forward to beat our press and his aerial stats are fantastic so I don't see him being dropped

[wykikitoon 21748]

I think there will be a little rotation but not much.  Its great to have the options.  I think Schar will be the one out though.  But agree that Botman's game time will be managed more.

[The Fish 11127]

9 hours ago, Rayvin said:

The great Toontastic Left Centreback debate. On it rages.

 

This is how you know @The Fish has won the battle for your souls btw. We're about 5 minutes from someone suggesting that Botman's ideal playing role is a Left footed Libero and discussing the impact this has on the balance of the rest of the squad

[wykikitoon 21748]

Just now, Toonpack said:

{quote]  [\quote]

 

[Dazzler 11033]

9 hours ago, Andrew said:

You can't be playing a Libero with a sweeper keeper.

 

Fucking idiot.

Who can't? I won the league with PSG with three attacking Liberos and an attacking sweeper keeper on FM. Yes, it was the worst league performance since the Qataris came in with only a 2 point lead at the top, yes we were knocked out in the opening stages of the champions league, and yes we were on the wrong side of a cup upset against a minnow in the French Cup - but don't tell me what can't be done with the right mindset and an unfairly put together squad of mercenaries.

[Toonpack 10595]

17 hours ago, The Fish said:

 

Schar's reportedly in talks for a new contract and Burn's deal runs out in 2026. Lascelles and Krafth will be moved on, no doubt, but that's a problem for the Summer when we'll need to replace our - check notes- 4th and 5th choice CBs. 

 

Kelly absolutely does not have pace to burn, that's just not true. He's not ponderous, but there's no way I'd call him quick. He's 26 and hasn't shown much more promise than Premier League squad player. He's not going to be as good as Schar, let alone Botman. so at best he's going to be a squad player. 

 

The £10m pure profit is PSR accounting. That £10m on the books could pay for a much more expensive replacement. He cost us nothing in transfer fees so whatever we sell him for is pure profit. Oh, and there's absolutely no fucking way we paid £6m as a signing/agent fee for Lloyd Kelly. In 23/24 we paid £18.8m on agent fees, when we signed;  Tonali, Barnes, Livramento, Minteh, and Hall. There's no way Lloyd Kelly's agent got nearly 32% of their combined outlay.

 

 

 

Eddie might like the lad, he may think he's a super cool fun dude, but the lad is fundamentally not a top 6 centre back and if we want to improve the squad, he's exactly the type of player we need to be moving on. Him, Almiron, Longstaff and Dubravka (in the summer). 

 

That post is about as valid/accurate as your doorframe measurements. 

 

Point one:

"a problem for the summer" to replace our THIRD (not 4th/5th) choice CB when we can avoid that expense entirely because (checks notes) we already own the fucker.

 

Next season CB's will likely be: New RCB (with pace) back-up Schar (if re-signs) LCB Botman, back-up Burn, Kelly gives a 3rd Option for both in a Krafth (who's a FB in reality) like way.

 

*Kelly can also cover LB in emergency. (anyone who mentions Tino in the LB cover conversation needs a paracetamol or 10)

 

Point two:

Pace - In 22/23 Opta monitored all players and of ALL Prem defenders Kelly was top 10 (8th fastest of all CB/FB's), he's marginally slower than Gordon by about 1kmh. Compared to our other defenders he's Usain fucking Bolt.

 

Point Three: 

Costs/PSR - So the 5 players mentioned cost us agent fee's of £18.8 mill, that's an average of £3.75 mill, you completely ignore any signing-on fee (which I mentioned) which lets say is 10% of his value, that's around another £1.5 Million (he's valued at €18 mill on transfermarkt) so we have costs associated with signing him of  £5.25 Million, which is just a tad closer to £6 million that "pure profit" is.

 

Point Four:

"Eddie might like the lad, he may think he's a super cool fun dude" - yeah that's nailed Eddie's motivation/methods in squad building. Christ! it's preposterous, and not a little disrespectful to Mr Howe. 

 

"but the lad is fundamentally not a top 6 centre back" - at last, a correct assertion, no he's not a starting level top 6 defender BUT we are years away from having starting level like for like substitute/second choice players on the bench.

 

"he's exactly the type of player we need to be moving on" - in time yes, but not just now. He's 26 he's got years in him (unlike the other CB's), he covers two squad places with one body, ideally we'll keep him a couple of years and some kid will develop to replace him/those ahead of him.

 

Going by the comments on here some are obviously so concerned about growing our commercial income they're hoping to make our CB's attractive for sponsorship by fucking SAGA.

 

In the summer we need at minimum: GK, RCB, RW, CF (I suspect if the fucker gets fit and stays that way for back end of the season, they may extend Wilson and continue to develop Osula), back up RB, given Tino's a kid that'll probably be another Kelly type given you are unlikely to entice another Tino level kid to play second fiddle. We don't need to do same for Hall because we have Targett (although probably gone) Burn (oil tanker at FB) and (checks notes) Kelly. That's one hell of a lot of needs.

 

We have plenty of needs, we don't need to create another one.

 

Finally Diego's post - least said the better, he had patently just woken up from his siesta with a monster hangover having been hammering that sangria since dawn.

[Gemmill 47711]

According to Hope's dispatches from this morning's press conference, Howe was asked "where is the Marc Guehi money", and he gave a response which was basically:

 

Had we bought Guehi in the summer, it would have meant another sale before June 30th. And a more significant sale than just Almiron. 

 

As it stands, selling Almiron and not buying makes us safe for June 30th, so that's the plan. 

 

And actually the Bruno/Botman window was Jan 22 wasn't it? Which means that doesn't drop out of our PSR calc til July 1 of this year. So we could be set up for a decent summer of spending, maybe. 

 

But anyway that's meant to be why there'll be nowt spent this month. 

[Gemmill 47711]

Worth a watch actually, and not that long. 

 

 

[LongTimeAdmirer 1304]

1 minute ago, Gemmill said:

According to Hope's dispatches from this morning's press conference, Howe was asked "where is the Marc Guehi money", and he gave a response which was basically:

 

Had we bought Guehi in the summer, it would have meant another sale before June 30th. And a more significant sale than just Almiron. 

 

As it stands, selling Almiron and not buying makes us safe for June 30th, so that's the plan. 

 

And actually the Bruno/Botman window was Jan 22 wasn't it? Which means that doesn't drop out of our PSR calc til July 1 of this year. So we could be set up for a decent summer of spending, maybe. 

 

But anyway that's meant to be why there'll be nowt spent this month. 

 

 

I’m not buying the Guehi story. There’s no way we spent two and a half months chasing him for £70 farken million, only for them to suddenly realize it would leave them in a tough spot at the end of the season. 
 

 

 

[Gemmill 47711]

OK so it sounds like Howe's lying then. 

[ewerk 31749]

6 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

And actually the Bruno/Botman window was Jan 22 wasn't it? Which means that doesn't drop out of our PSR calc til July 1 of this year. So we could be set up for a decent summer of spending, maybe. 

 

Their fees are amortised over the length of their contract, not over the three year PSR cycle. "So called accountant".

Edited 7 hours ago by ewerk