Transfers, 2024-25 season

[ohhh_yeah 2966]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

WHY WON'T YOU LET ME GET RID OF MARK FUCKING GILLESPIE?

 

 

[Alex 35083]

4 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

Don't think so. He is 21 and has only played one PL game as sub for West Ham so can't be that highly rated. 

 

Eddie said he needed to build up his fitness when we signed him a month ago and he still isn't anywhere near a squad.

 

Glad to be proved wrong of course.

I think Ashworth will have done his homework but the fee and his lack of appearances very much suggests a gamble at the right price. Rather than a player all that highly rated. Also I think the club will be looking at generally improving the U23 depth. I think we’re half way up the second division and we’ll be looking to get promoted so our academy players can test themselves against those at Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City etc. 

[LongTimeAdmirer 1258]

did you still want shaw ? @Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21924]

9 hours ago, LongTimeAdmirer said:

did you still want shaw ? @Dr Gloom

 

i didn't see the game. was he at fault for loads of their goals? 

[LongTimeAdmirer 1258]

22 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

i didn't see the game. was he at fault for loads of their goals? 

 

 from the highlight, he sure was in no mans land a lot

[Holden McGroin 6587]

I think we've missed a big chance to go for the CL this season. I obviously don't know the NUFC accounts so it may not have been possible to blow a load of cash.

 

Spurs are shit. Liverpool were stuttering but now look good again. Chelsea could easily go on a good run now. We now have loads of other teams sniffing around us - Brighton, Brentford and Fulham so its going to be a fun run in.

 

I'm totally happy with the direction of the club and its just so enjoyable watching a team play on the front foot  but feel like there was a gap for us to sneak in this year, which is closing by the game.

[Alex 35083]

I think this is bollocks like. What world class (or however you want to define it) available players did we turn out nose up at in January? It’s not football manager on cheat mode 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

23 minutes ago, Alex said:

I think this is bollocks like. What world class (or however you want to define it) available players did we turn out nose up at in January? It’s not football manager on cheat mode 

 

i don't think every acquisition has to be world class at this stage of our development. i'd look at what arsenal did in bringing in trossard and jorginho as something we could have tried to replicate. £14m on jorginho and £25m on trossard. they're the type of player that would have given our squad the depth needed to push on.

[Alex 35083]

They’ve got to want to come and they’ve got to be an improvement on our first team. At the same time they’ve got to be at the right price and not break the wage structure. And, if not, you’re into the realms of restricting yourself down the road for players who might not make the difference between getting to the CL this season anyway. In which case, what’s the point? Arsenal isn’t a very good comparison because they’ve got a big head start both in terms of what they’ve built long term and where we both are in the league this year. 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

18 minutes ago, Alex said:

They’ve got to want to come and they’ve got to be an improvement on our first team. At the same time they’ve got to be at the right price and not break the wage structure. And, if not, you’re into the realms of restricting yourself down the road for players who might not make the difference between getting to the CL this season anyway. In which case, what’s the point? Arsenal isn’t a very good comparison because they’ve got a big head start both in terms of what they’ve built long term and where we both are in the league this year. 

 

it would have been a bit of a punt, as it usually is in the january window, but we weren't so far behind arsenal at the turn of the year. it may not have made the difference and we'll never know now, but i do feel like the recruitment, particularly combined with the outgoings, left us a little exposed for the second half of the season. 

 

 

 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

i don't want to overly criticise the owners. the recruitment has generally been really well judged and i am aware that i probably sound greedy - expectations were clearly raised after such an unreal first half of the season. we're ahead of schedule, they don't have loads of room to manoeuvre due to ffp and perhaps champions league this year may be a couple of years too early etc etc...

 

but it's hard not to wonder what might have been had they gone for it. 

[The Fish 10857]

20 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

I think we've missed a big chance to go for the CL this season. I obviously don't know the NUFC accounts so it may not have been possible to blow a load of cash.

 

Spurs are shit. Liverpool were stuttering but now look good again. Chelsea could easily go on a good run now. We now have loads of other teams sniffing around us - Brighton, Brentford and Fulham so its going to be a fun run in.

 

I'm totally happy with the direction of the club and its just so enjoyable watching a team play on the front foot  but feel like there was a gap for us to sneak in this year, which is closing by the game.

 

I'm not sure that there was the finances available to us to get the kinds of players we'd need to grab Champions League football for next season. I'm not sure if there were the players available to us either. 

 

To really be assured of getting into the CL we'd have needed; a top class defensive midfielder who slotted straight in, a reliable goal scorer, depth at fullback on both flanks and maybe more. Conservatively, to get the quality we're talking about, you'd need to drop north of £100m in January. What DM, CF and FBs are available in January that aren't prohibitively expensive? We couldn't sign James Maddison because Leicester were asking for too much, same with Matheus Franca. 

 

Spurs are shit and in flux, same with Chelsea. Both clubs have bigger problems than just their current managers/current squad. There's a disorder to both clubs that's not going to fixed by firing Potter, or Conte.

Liverpool destroyed Man Utd, that's true but anomalous. They're still playing with an ageing squad and stalwarts like Van Dijk and Salah are getting worse, not better. Their 15 players with the most minutes in the PL this season have an average age of 28 1/2yrs. Take 19yr old Harvey Elliot out and it's over 29yr on average. Now, this would be fine if it wasn't where that particular side needs the energy of youth. Their midfield is; Thiago, Henderson, Milner, and Fabinho. Average age - 32.25 dragged down by 29yr old Fabinho.

 

We've gone toe to toe with every one of the 'big clubs' and only fallen short because we've lacked a little in terms of quality. Next season we'll be stronger still. 

 

Chill Winston.

[PaddockLad 17262]

Seen a lot of comments like this over the last few days….so I thought I’d have a look….the first season Man City qualified for the champions league they had Vincent Kompany, David Silva and Yaya Toure. Slightly below that level were James Milner, Gareth Barry, Edin Dzeko and Pablo Zabaletta . Mark Hughes had been sacked and Roberto Mancini was coach. Looking at that and taking into account the FFP that we’re going to be held to and which they certainly weren’t then we’re 3/4 transfer windows away from a comparable squad  

 

 

[Alex 35083]

37 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

it would have been a bit of a punt, as it usually is in the january window, but we weren't so far behind arsenal at the turn of the year. it may not have made the difference and we'll never know now, but i do feel like the recruitment, particularly combined with the outgoings, left us a little exposed for the second half of the season. 

 

 

 

Who should we have taken a punt on that would’ve likely made a difference (who would’ve come and met the criteria I mentioned earlier)? I don’t expect you to answer that as it’s not our job but that’s the sort of thing you have to balance dealing with the recruitment policy. I guess what I’m saying is it’s not fair to say it’s a missed opportunity if there’s not a realist opportunity there. 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

23 minutes ago, Alex said:

Who should we have taken a punt on that would’ve likely made a difference (who would’ve come and met the criteria I mentioned earlier)? I don’t expect you to answer that as it’s not our job but that’s the sort of thing you have to balance dealing with the recruitment policy. I guess what I’m saying is it’s not fair to say it’s a missed opportunity if there’s not a realist opportunity there. 

Of course I don’t know, but we don’t know either way do we? Who’s to say we weren’t close to getting Jorginho? We were linked with him. All we can do is speculate on here. 
 

Have the new owners signed well since the takeover? 100% yes. it’s hard to be too critical of anything they’ve done tbh. 
 

But January was the first window for me where they didn’t excel. You get the sense Howe felt that way from what he’s said about it too - he clearly didn’t want to lose Shelvey and Wood.
 

I completely accept the money we got for those two was too good to turn down and Gordon may end up being a top player for us. But I feel like the squad was weakened despite his arrival because we went to having only one player comfortable playing DM and from three to two centre forwards. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Dr Gloom

[Holden McGroin 6587]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

I think this is bollocks like. What world class (or however you want to define it) available players did we turn out nose up at in January? It’s not football manager on cheat mode 

 

Its definitely not bollocks and I caveated it with I don't know the financial situation (we may well have tried). I just think it could end up being missed opportunity as if we dont make it this year the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool aren't going to be as shit next season. Spurs will likely improve and Man U are on a upward trajectory as well.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Holden McGroin

[Holden McGroin 6587]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

 

I'm not sure that there was the finances available to us to get the kinds of players we'd need to grab Champions League football for next season. I'm not sure if there were the players available to us either. 

 

To really be assured of getting into the CL we'd have needed; a top class defensive midfielder who slotted straight in, a reliable goal scorer, depth at fullback on both flanks and maybe more. Conservatively, to get the quality we're talking about, you'd need to drop north of £100m in January. What DM, CF and FBs are available in January that aren't prohibitively expensive? We couldn't sign James Maddison because Leicester were asking for too much, same with Matheus Franca. 

 

Spurs are shit and in flux, same with Chelsea. Both clubs have bigger problems than just their current managers/current squad. There's a disorder to both clubs that's not going to fixed by firing Potter, or Conte.

Liverpool destroyed Man Utd, that's true but anomalous. They're still playing with an ageing squad and stalwarts like Van Dijk and Salah are getting worse, not better. Their 15 players with the most minutes in the PL this season have an average age of 28 1/2yrs. Take 19yr old Harvey Elliot out and it's over 29yr on average. Now, this would be fine if it wasn't where that particular side needs the energy of youth. Their midfield is; Thiago, Henderson, Milner, and Fabinho. Average age - 32.25 dragged down by 29yr old Fabinho.

 

We've gone toe to toe with every one of the 'big clubs' and only fallen short because we've lacked a little in terms of quality. Next season we'll be stronger still. 

 

Chill Winston.

 

Im completely chilled. I enjoy us just TRYING again. Im enjoying the ride with no real expectations. The feel good factor is back and im caring again.

 

The leadership (both on football side and commercial side) have been pretty much superb since they came in. I have no criticism of them. It was merely and observation.

 

On a side note. We might well be stronger but other teams might well be stronger. Hence my theory this could have perhaps been a chance missed.

Edited March 7, 2023 by Holden McGroin

[Dr Gloom 21924]

1 minute ago, Holden McGroin said:

 

It definitely not bollocks and I caveated it with I don't know the financial situation (we may well have tried). I just think it could end up being missed opportunity as if we dont make it this year the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool aren't going to be as shit next season. Spurs will likely improve and Man U are on an lupward trajectory as well.

I agree it was an opportunity to turbo charge the project. Who the fuck knows how close we were to making the other signings we needed? Maybe it was deliberate move. I dunno. 
 

The rival teams will strengthen in the summer, of course, but i get the sense we will throw a lot more money at it too as more Ashley legacy players are offloaded and commercial deals are announced.  Chelsea have demonstrated money alone doesn’t lead to success.
 

But a successful punt on getting top 4 this season would have brought in more cash, making it easier to announce “fair value” mega sponsorships and to sign top players. 
 

Madison for example. Does he come if we finish 6th? I imagine he’ll fancy a champions league club for his prime years contract 

[Gemmill 44881]

I think it might well turn out to be an opportunity missed, but I'm not sure there's much we could have done to mitigate that, bar not selling Shelvey, and I doubt he would have been the difference maker. Spunking hundreds of millions in the January window is not where we're currently at. 

 

If there was a chance this season, there'll be chances in future seasons when we're stronger though. 

[ewerk 30611]

One thing that is obvious is that the reason we didn't spend £100m+ wasn't because the owners didn't want to but because they didn't want to blow their summer budget in a difficult window. 

 

I know that Chelsea and Liverpool are having bad seasons and the perception is that their situation means there's an opening for us but if you look at our points total at this stage of the season then it would have had us challenging for top four in any of the previous four or five seasons at least. This isn't a one-off scenario for us. The plan is to build solid foundations and you don't do that by buying the wrong players just because they're available or gambling the next couple of years' FFP allowance by blowing it all in one shot.

[Gemmill 44881]

Aye, it's definitely possible to have loads of money and fuck things up. See Everton and Villa. If you get it wrong, it can take a long time to unwind your fuck ups. 

 

We should look at the patience as a good thing BTW. Staveley was talking at that football in business thing last week and was constantly talking about the Saudis being long term investors. She said that PIF is basically a pension fund and pension funds are holders of long term assets. 

 

That's evidenced in the behaviour to date and it puts to bed all the shit about they'll dump us for Man United or Liverpool. We're in good hands. 

[Alex 35083]

24 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

 

Its definitely not bollocks and I caveated it with I don't know the financial situation (we may well have tried). I just think it could end up being missed opportunity as if we dont make it this year the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool aren't going to be as shit next season. Spurs will likely improve and Man U are on a upward trajectory as well.

[Alex 35083]

26 minutes ago, Holden McGroin said:

 

Its definitely not bollocks and I caveated it with I don't know the financial situation (we may well have tried). I just think it could end up being missed opportunity as if we dont make it this year the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool aren't going to be as shit next season. Spurs will likely improve and Man U are on a upward trajectory as well.

It’s a bit like being at the match and shouting ‘shoot!’ but then caveating that with ‘but make sure you score’ 

[Alex 35083]

8 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Aye, it's definitely possible to have loads of money and fuck things up. See Everton and Villa. If you get it wrong, it can take a long time to unwind your fuck ups. 

 

We should look at the patience as a good thing BTW. Staveley was talking at that football in business thing last week and was constantly talking about the Saudis being long term investors. She said that PIF is basically a pension fund and pension funds are holders of long term assets. 

 

That's evidenced in the behaviour to date and it puts to bed all the shit about they'll dump us for Man United or Liverpool. We're in good hands. 

Sportswashed 👆

[PaddockLad 17262]

Bottom line may have been cost/benefit….was the cost of bringing in 3/4 players in January outweighed by how much we’d make from only possibly qualifying for the champions league group stage? 🤷🏻‍♂️