The new manager thread

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Favre is 12/1, third favourite behind Lampard. Easily falsified.

[Howmanheyman 33827]

Just now, Isegrim said:

The Bildzeitung is as reliable as the Express, the Sun or Loerrach Zeitung tbh

Always read Bild as Bilge so I'm sceptical as well.

[Polarboy 2311]

Just now, Isegrim said:

The Bildzeitung is as reliable as the Express, the Sun or Loerrach Zeitung tbh

 

Maybe, but it does seem like tabloid or not, German's are less likely to bullshit with no basis in fact at all. 

[Andrew 4856]

Romano saying that the deal is agreed in principle between Fonseca and the club.

 

Annoying catchphrase aside he is typically quite reliable as he only tends to report things he hears from players/agents/clubs directly. 

[Isegrim 9896]

3 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

Maybe, but it does seem like tabloid or not, German's are less likely to bullshit with no basis in fact at all. 

Germans not but Bild is. 

[Diego21 2138]

I am not sure about Fonseca. I don't know him to much, but I can tell some things about him. I think he is a coach that need time to built his team and not to get good results inmediatly. And we need to win since next match. 

 

Fonseca did very well with small teams in Portugal with 0 pressure. 

 

In his first experience, in Second Level of Portugal League, he ended the League in 3rd position with Deportivo Aves, a team that should be top5 or top6. Ok. Is good. Well done.

 

In his second experience, he ended in third position with Paços... A team that should be fight in the bottom of the league. Veeery Well. This team was so smart. Playing defensive football, not conceding in the back and doing so well the counterattack.

 

This performance made him to sign with Porto... And he not convince. Bad in League, Cups and Europe, he had a very good team, with Jackson, Quintero, Quaresma, James, Fernando, Danilo, Hector Herrera, Varela, Alex Sandro, Otamendi... He was eliminated in Champions in groups and was fired when he was third in League. 

 

Come back with Paços and did well. He discovered Diogo Jota this year playing the end of the season and ending in half of the table. 

 

Again, a new experience with a better team. Braga, probably the fourth of the country behind Portp, Benfica and Sporting. And he did very well. He won the half of the matches this season. He won the Cup, ended the season in 4th and QuartersFinals in Europa League.

 

With Shakthar is not easy to evaluate because Shakthar is by far the best team in the country. In the Ukranian Championship he did very well. Three leagues and three cups in three years. But not in Europe. First year, a bad Europa League, being eliminated by Celta. Second, good performance, getting 12 points in Group Stage and later downing by Roma. Third, bad again, being 3rd in Group Stage and losing later in Europa League against Frankfurt. 

 

In Roma, he was correct in League in first year (5th, but not have a squad for more) and correct in Cups, being defeted by Juventus and Sevilla.

 

But second he ended in 7th and the squad was for more. He had lots of personal problems with Dzeko and bad relationship with the players. 

 

I am not sure about him. He have never getting a team in the middle of the season. Not experienced in this kind of situation. He need more time to work and this team needs to win inmediatly. Hehave done very well with bad squads, and very bad with strong squads. 

 

He have played almost his all career with 4-4-2 formation, and 3-4-2-1 in Rome. And this team need to sign better defenses to play with 4 in the back. 

[Polarboy 2311]

8 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Romano saying that the deal is agreed in principle between Fonseca and the club.

 

Annoying catchphrase aside he is typically quite reliable as he only tends to report things he hears from players/agents/clubs directly. 

 

 

This was his most recent tweet on it, which to me seems like Fonseca would take it, but that the club are still keeping their options open given there's a question mark over whether a green light will be given. We have heard from other journalists that Fonseca being so nailed on in the betting doesn't necessarily reflect reality. I'm not privy to how these things work, so maybe if contracts are being discussed at all that means he is nailed, but then again maybe in a process like this you go through what you'd be offering and what they'd be willing to take, with at least the shortlist of who you are considering for the position. 

[Andrew 4856]

3 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

 

This was his most recent tweet on it, which to me seems like Fonseca would take it, but that the club are still keeping their options open given there's a question mark over whether a green light will be given. We have heard from other journalists that Fonseca being so nailed on in the betting doesn't necessarily reflect reality. I'm not privy to how these things work, so maybe if contracts are being discussed at all that means he is nailed, but then again maybe in a process like this you go through what you'd be offering and what they'd be willing to take, with at least the shortlist of who you are considering for the position. 

 

This is from today, about 15 mins in they get to Fonseca
 

 

[Polarboy 2311]

Yeah, seems like, at least according to him, that Fonseca is still the frontrunner, but given that it's taken them this long they may be thinking of going another way. In fairness that does line up with Farve, or someone else, having caught up to Fonseca in the running. In any case hopefully we'll get word this week because even if they're only in the stands against Chelsea, it would be nice to have them in and around the place, take the game against Brighton, which is winnable even if they are a decent side, given that they've had a very decent run fixture wise to get to 15 points, and then bed themselves in over the international break ready for the run of winnable games in November and early December before the nightmare run from mid December until January. 

[Blastronaut 1344]

34 minutes ago, Polarboy said:

 

 

..... Fonseca being so nailed on in the betting doesn't necessarily reflect reality. I'm not privy to how these things work......

 

Aye. For fear of sounding like a broken record, bookies these days have no investment in predicting the outcome of these (or any) markets. Last I looked even discounting the top three heavy favourites there was still a healthy overround in their favour.

[Alan Doh'liver 219]

I actually think they are probably moving away from Fonseca, just too much of an unknown quantity considering the position we are in. I've got a roofer doing some work here at the minute and he's just told me the club were speaking to Martinez yesterday for what that's worth. It's probably bullshit. 

 

But I guess if you were going to go for Fonseca, you could argue Martinez makes just as much sense, at least he has experience of the Premier. Wouldn't be my choice though. 

[wykikitoon 20712]

If we get Martinez I will be absolutely gutted 

[Dr Gloom 22143]

4 hours ago, Alan Doh'liver said:

I actually think they are probably moving away from Fonseca, just too much of an unknown quantity considering the position we are in. I've got a roofer doing some work here at the minute and he's just told me the club were speaking to Martinez yesterday for what that's worth. It's probably bullshit. 

 

But I guess if you were going to go for Fonseca, you could argue Martinez makes just as much sense, at least he has experience of the Premier. Wouldn't be my choice though. 

If your roofer said so it must be true 🤪

[Alan Doh'liver 219]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

If your roofer said so it must be true 🤪

 

Aye soz, it's one of those, but was just surprised to hear Martinez's name again so thought I might as well put it out there. 

[Howay 12496]

Martinez would be a nightmare appointment imo. Absolutely fucking dreadful manager, I always found the great escape artist schtick the pundits attributed to him at Wigan hilarious given he was the bloke that consistently guided them into that mess every fucking year. Not saying you’re advocating for his appointment btw. I’d be gutted with him as manager. 

[Rayvin 5295]

Has he not done well with Belgium, or is it more the case that it would have been impossible not to do well with Belgium?

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Bruce would have won the euros with their players. Does that answer your question?

[Isegrim 9896]

54 minutes ago, Howay said:

Martinez would be a nightmare appointment imo. Absolutely fucking dreadful manager, I always found the great escape artist schtick the pundits attributed to him at Wigan hilarious given he was the bloke that consistently guided them into that mess every fucking year. Not saying you’re advocating for his appointment btw. I’d be gutted with him as manager. 

I would rather have Martinez than some other “big” or fancy names. At least with Martinez I think he has got some ideas and philosophy that aren’t coming from the jueassic ages of football management and coaching.

As for Wigan, I think he should be judged for what he got out of the players at his disposal. I think he got a lot of players and the team performing above their abilities. It’s the opposite to Brucey.

 I wouldn’t be happy with Martinez as there are far better options around, but I don’t think he is a worse option than the likes  of Favre or other unknown quantities. Martinez might be actually a good coach when working in the right framework.

[Chaser 1255]

I'd rather have Potter than Martinez.  

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

I worry any new manager is on a hiding to nothing with those December fixtures, if we don't start winning soon we might be too far gone by the January window. We need someone to tighten us up and quickly. I think PL experience is the safest bet. We should throw money at Everton and Rafa, so that he can safely come here and they don't feel like they've lost out and his house doesn't get petrol bombed. It'd also be extra revenue to offset against their FFP problems

[Blastronaut 1344]

31 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

I worry any new manager is on a hiding to nothing with those December fixtures, if we don't start winning soon we might be too far gone by the January window. We need someone to tighten us up and quickly. I think PL experience is the safest bet. We should throw money at Everton and Rafa, so that he can safely come here and they don't feel like they've lost out and his house doesn't get petrol bombed. It'd also be extra revenue to offset against their FFP problems

 

Might as well try to get Big Dunc as well if that's the plan. Fully expect there will be a shorter term option and then a bigger name brought in once the ship's been steadied and they can be lured in with the promise of proper transfer window and full preseason. 

 

Martinez might not be a terrible shout as a stopgap and he's likely looking for a route out of the Belgium job (that squad probably won't last to the next Euros) and in the short term I reckon he'd get youse organised and motivated enough to avoid relegation. Plus he's so far up his own arse he'd probably fancy himself to change opinions and land the job for the long term.

 

I don't fucking rate him as an elite level manager, but he's nowt like Bruce which might be what's needed in the short term to turn things around. Given Celtic just wasted about 6 months trying to negotiate with Howe, can't see him being worth the time or effort for a stopgap and the other names all seem to be more suited to long term projects when really this appointment really just to be "keep us up, help us attract a quality fullback or two, get these cunts performing and we'll pay you off in June".

Edited October 26, 2021 by Blastronaut

[Howay 12496]

43 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

I would rather have Martinez than some other “big” or fancy names. At least with Martinez I think he has got some ideas and philosophy that aren’t coming from the jueassic ages of football management and coaching.

As for Wigan, I think he should be judged for what he got out of the players at his disposal. I think he got a lot of players and the team performing above their abilities. It’s the opposite to Brucey.

 I wouldn’t be happy with Martinez as there are far better options around, but I don’t think he is a worse option than the likes  of Favre or other unknown quantities. Martinez might be actually a good coach when working in the right framework.

I get the point, I’ve just always seen Martinez as a Billy bullshitter. He clearly does have ideas and a footballing philosophy but imo it’s never shown any real impact or success. It might just be me but I always found him to be a bit of a fraud as his results and record never backed up his bluster and the media portrayal of him. In any case I feel it’s moot since I can’t see him being in the frame for the job. I personally can’t speak about Favre, Ten Haag, or Fonseca in comparison to him as I don’t know much about them tbh, I just know I’d be massively underwhelmed with Martinez the same way I would be if they appointed Eddie Howe. 
 

@Rayvin I’m intentionally excluding his Belgium tenure as I think international football is too different to club football but fwiw I think he’s accomplished on par with what you’d expect with the squad he has available, if anything he’s been underwhelming but I do think in a way they were unlucky that the defensive players they had sort of got old as the attacking ones blossomed. 

[ewerk 31195]

Steve Bruce PL win rate: 27.9%
Roberto Martinez PL win rate: 30.6%
 

You don’t become the richest football club in the world and employ a manager only marginally less shit than your last one.

[ewerk 31195]

 

Curbishley ftw.

[Polarboy 2311]

What you're failing to understand is that for some inexplicable reason Bruce was never given a chance at any of the big teams, so of course his win rate at shit teams is going to be terrible, and obviously those teams being shit had absolutely nothing to do with him and his "coaching". 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Polarboy