adios 717 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 (edited) Correct. Except I'm hoping it will only be one season out of Europe. However, if he'd acted sooner regarding Souness, we would be in the running for the CL now. I'd like to put Shepherd in charge of a club with a fan base like Millwall (since it came up before) and see how this genius of a chairman would pull that club round. 103618[/snapback] To give him credit where it's due: I thought Goal was a shite film but a very good move from a business point of view; this casino, if it happens, would be very, very good for business; and in spite of how the fans and the media view him I believe he forms good relationships with chairmen, they don't see him as a fat pillock. As Leazes has said we could do a lot worse, and I think Freddie should still be our chairman but I think the the Souness debacle, from the timing of the previous sacking and Souness himself, to the hiring of Souness, were massive blunders and one more like it he should see him feck off. I only really commented because I can't get over how Leazes' rose-tinted specs can allow him to compare two incredibly similar situations so differently without the slightest hint of irony. EDIT: Oh, and I am also hopeful about Europe this season, it's nice to see some optimism back at the club...ahem Edited March 6, 2006 by DotBum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31229 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 And Leeds did play in the Champions League, in case you didn't notice, and they did better than us. What does that prove, exactly? 103602[/snapback] It proves how much a shitty chairman can fuck up a club and quickly, as you ask, rather than keep them on a good keel and hold the same ambitions... 103607[/snapback] So Leeds' predicament has nothing to do with the poor signings O'Leary made when Ridsdale released the funds then? It's all down to the chairman is it? 103608[/snapback] It had a lot to do with the ludicrous way the chairman financed O'Leary's signings, which were for a large part good signings, if overpriced but the manager doesn't decide the fee. 103620[/snapback] Plus he bought them on all sorts of buy now, pay twice as much later type deals. Risdale was an apalling chairman, but I don't see how that is relevant to Shepherd's chairmanship. 103625[/snapback] The comparison was made between FS and Risdale, I was simply saying that FS certainly comes out on top in that fight. Its been said 1000 times before but FS has done a good job on the financial side of things, which is becoming more apparent due to the fact we've no European football. As for the timings of appointments/dismissals I don't think anyone can realistically defend him there (apart from LM obviosuly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22015 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 And Leeds did play in the Champions League, in case you didn't notice, and they did better than us. What does that prove, exactly? 103602[/snapback] It proves how much a shitty chairman can fuck up a club and quickly, as you ask, rather than keep them on a good keel and hold the same ambitions... 103607[/snapback] So Leeds' predicament has nothing to do with the poor signings O'Leary made when Ridsdale released the funds then? It's all down to the chairman is it? 103608[/snapback] It had a lot to do with the ludicrous way the chairman financed O'Leary's signings, which were for a large part good signings, if overpriced but the manager doesn't decide the fee. 103620[/snapback] Plus he bought them on all sorts of buy now, pay twice as much later type deals. Risdale was an apalling chairman, but I don't see how that is relevant to Shepherd's chairmanship. 103625[/snapback] The comparison was made between FS and Risdale, I was simply saying that FS certainly comes out on top in that fight. Its been said 1000 times before but FS has done a good job on the financial side of things, which is becoming more apparent due to the fact we've no European football. As for the timings of appointments/dismissals I don't think anyone can realistically defend him there (apart from LM obviosuly.) 103629[/snapback] Yes, I agree. One of Leazes defences though is to compare him favourably with other very poor chairmen, a debating tactic I'm fairly dubious about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46093 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Being Chairman of NUFC is one of the easiest jobs in the Premiership - full houses every week, shitloads of merchandise sales, sufficient revenues to finance big signings (which can be used to dig yourself out of a hole), and a big enough reputation thanks to Keegan and Hall to attract decent managers and to an extent, players. If anything Shepherd has eroded this reputation by the way, NOT enhanced it, or else he would never have been forced to appoint Souness last time around. That's why this appointment is so important, because if he fucks it up this time, he uses up the last of that reputation, and we're just another perennial also-ran. I just think everyone is wasting their time arguing with Leazes though because he cannot see this, and he just adjusts his position to fit around his argument, i.e. Souness to blame for bad signings, Shepherd to thank for good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Lord Westwood, what about him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Lord Westwood, what about him? 103640[/snapback] A good point well made. Shepherd might be crook but at least he isnt a pirate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Fairly easy to see who are the KK bandwagon jumpers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Fairly easy to see who are the KK bandwagon jumpers. 103678[/snapback] Aye, the first game I went to was a Keegan one. He scored both goals against Carlisle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 Regardless of foresight and hindsight, which of the 4 managers FS has appointed do you think has bought success to the club? Just give me a number, not an explanation for his choices, i've read them already. 103520[/snapback] Well, comparative success to who? The other big city clubs that we are currently doing better than ? Dalglish, Gullit and Robson all brought more success to the club than the vast majority of other big city clubs, and the vast majority of ex NUFC managers, despite the club having the same resources to play with. What was to stop Leeds, mackems, Man City, Villa, West Ham, Everton, Portsmouth, Southampton, Wolves, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday etc from reaching 2 Cup Finals and playing in the Champions League, along with matching our turnover and the buying of England players ? As they have all done once, having been better than us ? As I said earlier, the lack of response to this means you can't answer, the answer being that the absolutely proof of raised standards and expectations the club have which is down to the board of directors, is shown by the amount of people who don't realise it !!! And no amount of silly little interjections from Alex is going to alter that FACT. 103594[/snapback] Millwall got to the Cup Final Leazes with a draw not dissimilar to the one Daglish had. The draw we had the following year wasn't much harder so that means very little in my book. 103599[/snapback] Twice ? And the Champs League ? 103603[/snapback] So what are you trying to prove exactly? That success on the field is down to Shepherd? In that case, I'll ask you this, how come it was down to Souness when we were doing so badly under him? You can't have it both ways. 103606[/snapback] have it your way Alex, Shepherd has been the team manager all along and has nothing to do with the financing and running of the club .... you aren;t the only one on here that thinks this ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I don't think that, I'm following your logic, or at least trying to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 And Leeds did play in the Champions League, in case you didn't notice, and they did better than us. What does that prove, exactly? 103602[/snapback] It proves how much a shitty chairman can fuck up a club and quickly, as you ask, rather than keep them on a good keel and hold the same ambitions... 103607[/snapback] Two seasons out of Europe and the financial outlay on players we've already made, plus the outlay we need to make to replace Shearer and replenish the squad, takes us close to Leeds' precarious financial state; and if it doesn't that's because of the number of loyal supporters going to matches. Despite what you and he seem to believe, he didn't create Geordies. 103611[/snapback] Before Shepherd and the Halls, we had 16 [sIXTEEN] years out of europe And 15,000 gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Before KK came as manager you mean? Easily the single biggest figure in the upturn in our fortunes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 I don't think that, I'm following your logic, or at least trying to. 103683[/snapback] No Alex. You are asking stupid fucking questions basically, you show me where I say Shepherd gets the credit or otherwise for the performance of the team on the pitch....I have told you this 2 or 3 times before, the TEAM MANAGER is responsible for who the club chooses to buy and sell, and the performance of the team, whereas the directors and chairman is responsible for the running, and financial support to the manager. Now, is that clear or are you going to continue to ask stupid questions like a fucking dope ??? Unless by your own inference in repeating things I have not said, you think that Shepherd is responsible for team matters, which you have. An utterly stupid notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 Before KK came as manager you mean? Easily the single biggest figure in the upturn in our fortunes. 103687[/snapback] And a new more ambitious re-structuring of the club ? So what the fuck are you twisting now ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 The irony of Leazes complaining about words being put into his mouth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 Being Chairman of NUFC is one of the easiest jobs in the Premiership - full houses every week, shitloads of merchandise sales, sufficient revenues to finance big signings (which can be used to dig yourself out of a hole), and a big enough reputation thanks to Keegan and Hall to attract decent managers and to an extent, players. If anything Shepherd has eroded this reputation by the way, NOT enhanced it, or else he would never have been forced to appoint Souness last time around. That's why this appointment is so important, because if he fucks it up this time, he uses up the last of that reputation, and we're just another perennial also-ran. I just think everyone is wasting their time arguing with Leazes though because he cannot see this, and he just adjusts his position to fit around his argument, i.e. Souness to blame for bad signings, Shepherd to thank for good ones. 103638[/snapback] As someone who backed Souness you obviously know what you are talking about....if it is so easy, please explain how directors at other clubs, including ours many years in the past, have allowed well run clubs and top football teams to slide .... You really think we have always had 50,000 gates and played in europe don't you despite being unable to read my posts or check up the figures if you don't believe them ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Before KK came as manager you mean? Easily the single biggest figure in the upturn in our fortunes. 103687[/snapback] And a new more ambitious re-structuring of the club ? So what the fuck are you twisting now ??? 103690[/snapback] You implied the upturn in gates etc. was to do with the Halls/Shepherd. I'm saying it had more to do with Keegan than any other single factor. Obviously he wasn't the only factor but Shepherd can't really get any credit for it in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 The irony of Leazes complaining about words being put into his mouth! 103691[/snapback] Answer the questions Alex of fuck off and stop behaving like a mindless moron..NUFC are competing better than other big city clubs because the directors are running the club in this way, what is so difficult to grasp with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 The irony of Leazes complaining about words being put into his mouth! 103691[/snapback] Answer the questions Alex of fuck off and stop behaving like a mindless moron..NUFC are competing better than other big city clubs because the directors are running the club in this way, what is so difficult to grasp with that 103696[/snapback] Now that is a hissy fit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 Regardless of foresight and hindsight, which of the 4 managers FS has appointed do you think has bought success to the club? Just give me a number, not an explanation for his choices, i've read them already. 103520[/snapback] Well, comparative success to who? The other big city clubs that we are currently doing better than ? Dalglish, Gullit and Robson all brought more success to the club than the vast majority of other big city clubs, and the vast majority of ex NUFC managers, despite the club having the same resources to play with. What was to stop Leeds, mackems, Man City, Villa, West Ham, Everton, Portsmouth, Southampton, Wolves, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday etc from reaching 2 Cup Finals and playing in the Champions League, along with matching our turnover and the buying of England players ? As they have all done once, having been better than us ? As I said earlier, the lack of response to this means you can't answer, the answer being that the absolutely proof of raised standards and expectations the club have which is down to the board of directors, is shown by the amount of people who don't realise it !!! And no amount of silly little interjections from Alex is going to alter that FACT. 103594[/snapback] Millwall got to the Cup Final Leazes with a draw not dissimilar to the one Daglish had. The draw we had the following year wasn't much harder so that means very little in my book. 103599[/snapback] Twice ? And the Champs League ? Have they bought England players, including the number 1 goalscorer ? No. So stop making stupid comparisons. Actually, for the last time, take a look at the likes of Millwall. THAT is what we were like before Shepherd and the Halls, despite having 50k crowds and a huge turnover........ 103603[/snapback] Well ???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 The irony of Leazes complaining about words being put into his mouth! 103691[/snapback] Answer the questions Alex of fuck off and stop behaving like a mindless moron..NUFC are competing better than other big city clubs because the directors are running the club in this way, what is so difficult to grasp with that 103696[/snapback] Now that is a hissy fit! 103697[/snapback] Exasperation at a dumb cunt if anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Being Chairman of NUFC is one of the easiest jobs in the Premiership - full houses every week, shitloads of merchandise sales, sufficient revenues to finance big signings (which can be used to dig yourself out of a hole), and a big enough reputation thanks to Keegan and Hall to attract decent managers and to an extent, players. If anything Shepherd has eroded this reputation by the way, NOT enhanced it, or else he would never have been forced to appoint Souness last time around. That's why this appointment is so important, because if he fucks it up this time, he uses up the last of that reputation, and we're just another perennial also-ran. I just think everyone is wasting their time arguing with Leazes though because he cannot see this, and he just adjusts his position to fit around his argument, i.e. Souness to blame for bad signings, Shepherd to thank for good ones. 103638[/snapback] As someone who backed Souness you obviously know what you are talking about....if it is so easy, please explain how directors at other clubs, including ours many years in the past, have allowed well run clubs and top football teams to slide .... You really think we have always had 50,000 gates and played in europe don't you despite being unable to read my posts or check up the figures if you don't believe them ... 103694[/snapback] In fairness, although Gemmill takes a lot of stick about being 'pro-Souness', his stance was only ever a 'lets-avoid-a-knee-jerk-reaction-to-an-absolutely-abysmal-appointment'. Shepherd really did back Souness (in the truest sense), because he made the absolutely abysmal appointment in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 LM, i'm quite aware that i'm loading these questions in my favour and as you disagree i can understand your reluctance to give me satisfaction on this issue, but to pursue my point further: Do YOU think Dalgleish was a sucees ? YES/NO Do YOU think Gullit was a succes ? YES/NO Do YOU think Robson was a succes ? YES/NO Do YOU think Souness was a success ? YES/NO Ideally i would like you to answer yes or by your own criteria, though of course you quite free to answer in any way you see fit. I just feel a direct yes or no to each of these would be a good spring board for ongoing discussion. I don't need to know your criteria, you don't have to justify your answers imo. If someone thinks a certain way, so be it. 103610[/snapback] Well in view of the fact that we waited 22 years to reach a Cup Final, and neither Leeds, Birmingham, Villa, Everton, mackems, West Ham, Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday, Wolves and other big city clubs haven't reached one either since we reached one in 1998, nor qualified or competed in the Champions League or even the UEFA Cup, then comparatively speaking it makes us more successful on and off the field than them. And only Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea more successful. All the people who are slagging off the board STILL fail to answer this question, nor answer another one, if the club are so bad and are appointing "shit" managers, what do YOU think they should do that they are not to ensure more success in future ? I'm not holding my breath for a reply as it hasn't been supplied so far, and I don't mean you chocchip only you and PP and possibly Renton have gave anything resembling a half decent constructive reply so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46093 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Being Chairman of NUFC is one of the easiest jobs in the Premiership - full houses every week, shitloads of merchandise sales, sufficient revenues to finance big signings (which can be used to dig yourself out of a hole), and a big enough reputation thanks to Keegan and Hall to attract decent managers and to an extent, players. If anything Shepherd has eroded this reputation by the way, NOT enhanced it, or else he would never have been forced to appoint Souness last time around. That's why this appointment is so important, because if he fucks it up this time, he uses up the last of that reputation, and we're just another perennial also-ran. I just think everyone is wasting their time arguing with Leazes though because he cannot see this, and he just adjusts his position to fit around his argument, i.e. Souness to blame for bad signings, Shepherd to thank for good ones. 103638[/snapback] As someone who backed Souness you obviously know what you are talking about....if it is so easy, please explain how directors at other clubs, including ours many years in the past, have allowed well run clubs and top football teams to slide .... You really think we have always had 50,000 gates and played in europe don't you despite being unable to read my posts or check up the figures if you don't believe them ... 103694[/snapback] In fairness, although Gemmill takes a lot of stick about being 'pro-Souness', his stance was only ever a 'lets-avoid-a-knee-jerk-reaction-to-an-absolutely-abysmal-appointment'. Shepherd really did back Souness (in the truest sense), because he made the absolutely abysmal appointment in the first place. 103701[/snapback] You're wasting your time mate. Leazes blames me for Souness. Shepherd gets off scot-free. LM, re your post above, I don't know if you've noticed it, but we are a football team on the slide (relatively obviously). We have been for a little while now under the stewardship of your mate Shepherd. Robson fell into Shepherd's lap (not literally, that would be hideous!) - but for that stroke of luck who knows where we would be at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46093 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 LM, i'm quite aware that i'm loading these questions in my favour and as you disagree i can understand your reluctance to give me satisfaction on this issue, but to pursue my point further: Do YOU think Dalgleish was a sucees ? YES/NO Do YOU think Gullit was a succes ? YES/NO Do YOU think Robson was a succes ? YES/NO Do YOU think Souness was a success ? YES/NO Ideally i would like you to answer yes or by your own criteria, though of course you quite free to answer in any way you see fit. I just feel a direct yes or no to each of these would be a good spring board for ongoing discussion. I don't need to know your criteria, you don't have to justify your answers imo. If someone thinks a certain way, so be it. 103610[/snapback] Well in view of the fact that we waited 22 years to reach a Cup Final, and neither Leeds, Birmingham, Villa, Everton, mackems, West Ham, Portsmouth, Sheffield Wednesday, Wolves and other big city clubs haven't reached one either since we reached one in 1998, nor qualified or competed in the Champions League or even the UEFA Cup, then comparatively speaking it makes us more successful on and off the field than them. And only Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea more successful. All the people who are slagging off the board STILL fail to answer this question, nor answer another one, if the club are so bad and are appointing "shit" managers, what do YOU think they should do that they are not to ensure more success in future ? I'm not holding my breath for a reply as it hasn't been supplied so far, and I don't mean you chocchip only you and PP and possibly Renton have gave anything resembling a half decent constructive reply so far 103702[/snapback] He made it fairly clear he was looking for yes/no answers like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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