Dr Gloom 22160 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 It may well be true to say we did start falling backwards a little towards the end of the season we finished 3rd but I think it would have been totally unfair on SBR to move him out then. He'd more than earned the oppertunity to have another season. But I think it did become apparant that season that he no longer could move us forward and he should certainly have been moved upstairs when we finished 5th. 99308[/snapback] No room for sentiment mate. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies. The signs were there and this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. 99363[/snapback] i don't agree with that like. 99381[/snapback] Which bit........ 1. No room for sentiment mate 2. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies 3. The signs were there 4. this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. Just so I know, like. 99384[/snapback] i don't agree that we were in a position to sack the manager after he'd taken us up a place in the league. i agree about there being no room for sentiment but it's not is af we were stuggling at the time is it? under bobby we had enjoyed our two best seasons since keegan. we were winning games, playing attacking, attractive football and it was actually fun to go the the match again for the first time in years. i don't agree the signs were there. we were played good football that season, if not quite as good as the season before. and if shepherd had sacked robson the summer after we finished 3rd he would be even more unpopular than he is now.....FACTizzle my nizzle 99389[/snapback] 1 - He would be if he'd appointed Souness, but if he'd appointed the RIGHT man to take us forward why would FS be unpopular???? 2 - I think your memory is showing signs of failure, Dan. We weren't as good when we finished 3rd as when we finished 4th. 99393[/snapback] 1 - because he would have sacked our most successful and charismatic manager since keegan, a man who had just taken us to 3rd in the league. can you imagine the uproar if fat frad had sacked sbr then? no one would have stood for that. 2 - my memory's fine mate. i just don't agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 It may well be true to say we did start falling backwards a little towards the end of the season we finished 3rd but I think it would have been totally unfair on SBR to move him out then. He'd more than earned the oppertunity to have another season. But I think it did become apparant that season that he no longer could move us forward and he should certainly have been moved upstairs when we finished 5th. 99308[/snapback] No room for sentiment mate. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies. The signs were there and this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. 99363[/snapback] I don't think it's being sentimental to allow someone who took us from relegation fodder to a second consecutive top four finish, another season just because he had made some iffy decisions. What he had done before suggested he could get us back on track (especially as we were hardly off it in the first place). What was sentimental was allowing him to continue on the begining of the season after when he had allowed the team to fall well below the standards he had set and after he had shown that he had little idea of how to put things right. 99371[/snapback] I'm not saying he made some 'iffy' decisions. Where do you get that from? What I'm saying is that the evidence on the pitch during the latter stages of that season showed that Robson could take the club no further. The following season proved it for god's sake. If the Chairman had recognised that and kept Robson on for the reason you state, then that IS sentment. Everybody I know believes that when we finished 3rd the performances generally were poorer than when we finished 4th the year before. Surely you remember that period? Everybody I spoke to on match days thought this, and people were banging on about it on nufc boards all over the shop at the time. 99378[/snapback] That was my opininion and I wasn't trying to attribute it to you. I think he made some iffy decisions that resulting in our football suffering a bit that season but didn't imo suggest he couldn't take us any futher. I agree his actions of the next season did prove that though and he should have gone then. In a way that showed respect for what he did for us and his standing in the game. It is not sentiment keeping a bloke on who took us to third. Every one makes some mistakes and not firing them for each one is not sentiment. 99397[/snapback] I'm not advocating anyone should be sacked for a 'mistake' per se. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the signs were there during the season we finished 3rd that he'd lost the players, that he wouldn't be able to take us further. It clearly IS sentiment to then recognise that and keep a manager on because of the fact he improved our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 1 - because he would have sacked our most successful and charismatic manager since keegan, a man who had just taken us to 3rd in the league. can you imagine the uproar if fat frad had sacked sbr then? no one would have stood for that. 2 - my memory's fine mate. i just don't agree with you. 99401[/snapback] So, to be clear. You reckon we turned in better performances the season we were 3rd compared to when we were 4th? That's what you're saying? We scored less goals, lost more matches and you think we were better because we went up one place? Were the Liverpool fans up in arms when they sacked Hoolia? They'd won 5 trophies. Perhaps their supporters have greater ambition than the likes of some Newcastle supporters, Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22160 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 1 - because he would have sacked our most successful and charismatic manager since keegan, a man who had just taken us to 3rd in the league. can you imagine the uproar if fat frad had sacked sbr then? no one would have stood for that. 2 - my memory's fine mate. i just don't agree with you. 99401[/snapback] So, to be clear. You reckon we turned in better performances the season we were 3rd compared to when we were 4th? That's what you're saying? We scored less goals, lost more matches and you think we were better because we went up one place? Were the Liverpool fans up in arms when they sacked Hoolia? They'd won 5 trophies. Perhaps their supporters have greater ambition than the likes of some Newcastle supporters, Dan. 99404[/snapback] no. what i'm saying is that you don't sack a manager who has taken you up a place in the league even if overall performance levels have marginally dropped. bear in mind that we also played a in long and relatively successful european campaign that season that would have had some impact on our league performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark 0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 1 - because he would have sacked our most successful and charismatic manager since keegan, a man who had just taken us to 3rd in the league. can you imagine the uproar if fat frad had sacked sbr then? no one would have stood for that. 2 - my memory's fine mate. i just don't agree with you. 99401[/snapback] So, to be clear. You reckon we turned in better performances the season we were 3rd compared to when we were 4th? That's what you're saying? We scored less goals, lost more matches and you think we were better because we went up one place? Were the Liverpool fans up in arms when they sacked Hoolia? They'd won 5 trophies. Perhaps their supporters have greater ambition than the likes of some Newcastle supporters, Dan. 99404[/snapback] no. what i'm saying is that you don't sack a manager who has taken you up a place in the league even if overall performance levels have marginally dropped. bear in mind that we also played a in long and relatively successful european campaign that season that would have had some impact on our league performance. 99405[/snapback] HTL makes a good point, I aslo thought Robson should have gone then, after the Everton defeat we were shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10971 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I gotta agree with alex, if we'd had the foresight to wait for the perfect manager instead of one that would suffice, the KK to Robson switch would have reaped massive benefits for our club. I truly believe that under Keegan we'd acheived that which is unthinkable now, we were truly challengers for the title. A couple of shrewd signings would have found us as a genuine contender, unfortunately KD came in and destroyed the first team. the initial point of this thread was Robsons team. I have to say that I think that the players mentioned made our side a helluva lot better than what we wendured before Robsons tenure and certainly some of the dross we've put up with after he was let go. Jenas was poor but clearly has talent. Bellamy I cannot think of a real football reason to get rid of him. Personality clashes are to be expected in such a high pressure job, the trick is managing the egos of contributary forces in the squad and losing those that offer nothing. Bellamy was imo too important to the team to get rid of so cheaply. Bernard, I understand he dug his own grave, but I'd imagine that was more the remit of his agent than any real desire by the lad to screw us over. Robert, big fan of his, but he just didn't do what he could often enough, and I'm man enough to admit his time came and went. Woodgate was the best centre half I've ever seen at Newcastle, just a shame his fitness was as suspect as Sholas shooting. but, Parker and Emre are a better central midfield than Speed and Jenas, N'Zogbia is a player of genuine potential and has that rare gift from a french winger; application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 It may well be true to say we did start falling backwards a little towards the end of the season we finished 3rd but I think it would have been totally unfair on SBR to move him out then. He'd more than earned the oppertunity to have another season. But I think it did become apparant that season that he no longer could move us forward and he should certainly have been moved upstairs when we finished 5th. 99308[/snapback] No room for sentiment mate. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies. The signs were there and this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. 99363[/snapback] I don't think it's being sentimental to allow someone who took us from relegation fodder to a second consecutive top four finish, another season just because he had made some iffy decisions. What he had done before suggested he could get us back on track (especially as we were hardly off it in the first place). What was sentimental was allowing him to continue on the begining of the season after when he had allowed the team to fall well below the standards he had set and after he had shown that he had little idea of how to put things right. 99371[/snapback] I'm not saying he made some 'iffy' decisions. Where do you get that from? What I'm saying is that the evidence on the pitch during the latter stages of that season showed that Robson could take the club no further. The following season proved it for god's sake. If the Chairman had recognised that and kept Robson on for the reason you state, then that IS sentment. Everybody I know believes that when we finished 3rd the performances generally were poorer than when we finished 4th the year before. Surely you remember that period? Everybody I spoke to on match days thought this, and people were banging on about it on nufc boards all over the shop at the time. 99378[/snapback] That was my opininion and I wasn't trying to attribute it to you. I think he made some iffy decisions that resulting in our football suffering a bit that season but didn't imo suggest he couldn't take us any futher. I agree his actions of the next season did prove that though and he should have gone then. In a way that showed respect for what he did for us and his standing in the game. It is not sentiment keeping a bloke on who took us to third. Every one makes some mistakes and not firing them for each one is not sentiment. 99397[/snapback] I'm not advocating anyone should be sacked for a 'mistake' per se. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the signs were there during the season we finished 3rd that he'd lost the players, that he wouldn't be able to take us further. It clearly IS sentiment to then recognise that and keep a manager on because of the fact he improved our team. 99402[/snapback] Ok it would have been sentiment for you to keep him on since you new he wasn't up to it any more. For the rest of us who thought he'd just made a couple of mistakes and didn't see any reason why he couldn't rectify them it wasn't. Happy with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 It may well be true to say we did start falling backwards a little towards the end of the season we finished 3rd but I think it would have been totally unfair on SBR to move him out then. He'd more than earned the oppertunity to have another season. But I think it did become apparant that season that he no longer could move us forward and he should certainly have been moved upstairs when we finished 5th. 99308[/snapback] No room for sentiment mate. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies. The signs were there and this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. 99363[/snapback] I don't think it's being sentimental to allow someone who took us from relegation fodder to a second consecutive top four finish, another season just because he had made some iffy decisions. What he had done before suggested he could get us back on track (especially as we were hardly off it in the first place). What was sentimental was allowing him to continue on the begining of the season after when he had allowed the team to fall well below the standards he had set and after he had shown that he had little idea of how to put things right. 99371[/snapback] I'm not saying he made some 'iffy' decisions. Where do you get that from? What I'm saying is that the evidence on the pitch during the latter stages of that season showed that Robson could take the club no further. The following season proved it for god's sake. If the Chairman had recognised that and kept Robson on for the reason you state, then that IS sentment. Everybody I know believes that when we finished 3rd the performances generally were poorer than when we finished 4th the year before. Surely you remember that period? Everybody I spoke to on match days thought this, and people were banging on about it on nufc boards all over the shop at the time. 99378[/snapback] That was my opininion and I wasn't trying to attribute it to you. I think he made some iffy decisions that resulting in our football suffering a bit that season but didn't imo suggest he couldn't take us any futher. I agree his actions of the next season did prove that though and he should have gone then. In a way that showed respect for what he did for us and his standing in the game. It is not sentiment keeping a bloke on who took us to third. Every one makes some mistakes and not firing them for each one is not sentiment. 99397[/snapback] I'm not advocating anyone should be sacked for a 'mistake' per se. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the signs were there during the season we finished 3rd that he'd lost the players, that he wouldn't be able to take us further. It clearly IS sentiment to then recognise that and keep a manager on because of the fact he improved our team. 99402[/snapback] Ok it would have been sentiment for you to keep him on since you new he wasn't up to it any more. For the rest of us who thought he'd just made a couple of mistakes and didn't see any reason why he couldn't rectify them it wasn't. Happy with that? 99604[/snapback] Not sure what your point is, tbh. The tone of your post sounds a bit juvenile to say the least. If you're trying to suggest I'm saying I was the only one who could see this you'd be badly mistaken again. At that time I was involved in comversation with lots of people on matchdays, as I'm sure you are as well, many people thought we weren't as good that season as when we finished 4th and many thought the players were not performing to 100% for Robson. If you didn't see it., or people near you didn't see it, then that's your problem. Perhaps you spend most of your time in the bar, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 It may well be true to say we did start falling backwards a little towards the end of the season we finished 3rd but I think it would have been totally unfair on SBR to move him out then. He'd more than earned the oppertunity to have another season. But I think it did become apparant that season that he no longer could move us forward and he should certainly have been moved upstairs when we finished 5th. 99308[/snapback] No room for sentiment mate. Liverpoo got rid of Hoolia despite winning 5 trophies. The signs were there and this is one thing I do blame FS for, he wasn't ruthless enough. 99363[/snapback] I don't think it's being sentimental to allow someone who took us from relegation fodder to a second consecutive top four finish, another season just because he had made some iffy decisions. What he had done before suggested he could get us back on track (especially as we were hardly off it in the first place). What was sentimental was allowing him to continue on the begining of the season after when he had allowed the team to fall well below the standards he had set and after he had shown that he had little idea of how to put things right. 99371[/snapback] I'm not saying he made some 'iffy' decisions. Where do you get that from? What I'm saying is that the evidence on the pitch during the latter stages of that season showed that Robson could take the club no further. The following season proved it for god's sake. If the Chairman had recognised that and kept Robson on for the reason you state, then that IS sentment. Everybody I know believes that when we finished 3rd the performances generally were poorer than when we finished 4th the year before. Surely you remember that period? Everybody I spoke to on match days thought this, and people were banging on about it on nufc boards all over the shop at the time. 99378[/snapback] That was my opininion and I wasn't trying to attribute it to you. I think he made some iffy decisions that resulting in our football suffering a bit that season but didn't imo suggest he couldn't take us any futher. I agree his actions of the next season did prove that though and he should have gone then. In a way that showed respect for what he did for us and his standing in the game. It is not sentiment keeping a bloke on who took us to third. Every one makes some mistakes and not firing them for each one is not sentiment. 99397[/snapback] I'm not advocating anyone should be sacked for a 'mistake' per se. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the signs were there during the season we finished 3rd that he'd lost the players, that he wouldn't be able to take us further. It clearly IS sentiment to then recognise that and keep a manager on because of the fact he improved our team. 99402[/snapback] Ok it would have been sentiment for you to keep him on since you new he wasn't up to it any more. For the rest of us who thought he'd just made a couple of mistakes and didn't see any reason why he couldn't rectify them it wasn't. Happy with that? 99604[/snapback] Not sure what your point is, tbh. The tone of your post sounds a bit juvenile to say the least. If you're trying to suggest I'm saying I was the only one who could see this you'd be badly mistaken again. At that time I was involved in comversation with lots of people on matchdays, as I'm sure you are as well, many people thought we weren't as good that season as when we finished 4th and many thought the players were not performing to 100% for Robson. If you didn't see it., or people near you didn't see it, then that's your problem. Perhaps you spend most of your time in the bar, or something. 99883[/snapback] Fist of all your mistaking my attempt lightening the tone with a little but of humour for me being juvenile but I don't care tbh so neh! Secondly I am not saying that you were (or that you claimed to be)the only one who saw problems or that we weren't playing as well that season as we were the season before. Many people saw that. What I am saying is that you appear to be the only one (certainly the only one that I have ever heard say it) who thought that Robson couldn't overcome these problems or get us back on track. He had done a fantasic job taking us from where we were when he came to the point where we could be a bit disapointed by the way we had performed in a season where we had finished third in the league and got through to the second phase of champions league for the first time in our history beating one of the giants of European football on the way. The majority were completely happy with what he had done and even those of us who saw some problems thought they weren't massive and that SBR could sort them out. Because of this I am saying that it was not sentiment to keep him on but a belief given is past record that he could still do the job we wanted him to do. It did however become apparent to me and a many more during the next season that belief missplaced and that you were right all along. (Yes the tone of that last bit was a bit juvenile ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22160 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 to be fair, howaythelads is the first person i've ever spoken to (either on message boards or at the match) that thinks that robson should have been sacked the season after we finished 3rd. i know a lot of people wanted him out the season after we finished 5th but i can't remember talking to anyone at the time who thought he should have gone the previous summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Dead right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Dead right. 100242[/snapback] SHAFT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1260 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 How did you know the ladies name for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Fist of all your mistaking my attempt lightening the tone with a little but of humour for me being juvenile but I don't care tbh so neh! Secondly I am not saying that you were (or that you claimed to be)the only one who saw problems or that we weren't playing as well that season as we were the season before. Many people saw that. What I am saying is that you appear to be the only one (certainly the only one that I have ever heard say it) who thought that Robson couldn't overcome these problems or get us back on track. He had done a fantasic job taking us from where we were when he came to the point where we could be a bit disapointed by the way we had performed in a season where we had finished third in the league and got through to the second phase of champions league for the first time in our history beating one of the giants of European football on the way. The majority were completely happy with what he had done and even those of us who saw some problems thought they weren't massive and that SBR could sort them out. Because of this I am saying that it was not sentiment to keep him on but a belief given is past record that he could still do the job we wanted him to do. It did however become apparent to me and a many more during the next season that belief missplaced and that you were right all along. (Yes the tone of that last bit was a bit juvenile ) 100124[/snapback] So what exactly is your problem with me believing that? I've just looked back over the thread and extracted some quotes to recap here, I'm not sure what the problem is. The 'discussion' about sentiment is a moot point as well. All I'm trying to say is that IF it is recognised a manager can do no more, that is the time to move him on, it is sentimental to keep him otherwise. If it's not recognised then obviously it's not sentimental to keep him in the job, is it? If it's not seen that a problem exists why would the manager be moved on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 (edited) to be fair, howaythelads is the first person i've ever spoken to (either on message boards or at the match) that thinks that robson should have been sacked the season after we finished 3rd. i know a lot of people wanted him out the season after we finished 5th but i can't remember talking to anyone at the time who thought he should have gone the previous summer. 100152[/snapback] First bit in bold....... Err ..... so ?? What's your problem with that? It's an opinion that I expressed on a message board at the time. Was slated for it, same as I was for predicting Souness would take us into a relegation scrap. As it happens, there was one other person on the message board concerned ( great shame it doesn't exist anymore ) who believed the same. So in fact there were 2 of us with the ability to see Robson had lost it. All this shows is that later events have since proven me to be correct, so thanks for highlighting it. Next time you tell me I'm posting shite you may want to remember that I was one of only two people in the world who could see Robson had lost it the season we finished 3rd. Second bit in bold......Go back over the thread and show me anywhere I said that generally people wanted Robson out, the insinuation being it was like people wanting Souness out. What I actually said is that many people recognised the performances during the year we were 3rd were worse than the year before, acknowledged by others on here, and that many people thought Robson had lost it during the latter part of that season. Nowhere have I said that people were actively and loudly calling for his head, which is what you imply. Edited February 24, 2006 by Howaythelads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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