Coronavirus

[ewerk 30569]

19 minutes ago, Anorthernsoul said:

Seen a German scientist on TV earlier and he said they had started testing in Germany mid January! Granted the test kit was developed there but it puts perspective on how far behind the UK is and shows why Germany are much more in control than this government probably will be.

 

 

He also said because there is no vaccine yet the greatest way to deal with this is changing human behaviour and the message in Germany has been clear and hasn't changed at all, far from the UK aswell then.

Well exactly. We’ve gone from herd immunity to delay, delay, delay. From testing doesn’t matter to test, test, test.

Which is why we need an independent enquiry into the government’s handling that of this situation.

[Alex 35063]

Even if we were testing as many people as we claim to be (10,000, which is doubtful) that would take about 18 years to test the whole population, if my quick calculations are right  

Edited April 2, 2020 by Alex

[ewerk 30569]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

Not defending Leave voters as they’re clearly the motivation behind the decision but the UK government did make a conscious (and completely unnecessary) decision to opt out didn’t they? 

Well that depends if you believe the government why they said we opted out because we are an independent nation or whether you believe the government when they said several hours later when they said they didn’t get the email about the scheme despite having acknowledged its existence and the offer for us to join several days before the deadline passed.

 

Basically it’s jingoistic bullshit that is costing real people their lives that it wouldn’t have had the vote gone the other way in 2016. I’m not saying we could have halved the death rate if we were in the EU but it’s clear that some lives could have been saved.

[ewerk 30569]

7 minutes ago, Alex said:

Even if we were testing as many people as we claim to be (10,000, which is doubtful) that would take about 18 years to test the whole population, if my quick calculations are right  

I’m sounding like a stuck record but Michael Gove at the daily briefing said that there was a worldwide shortage of a necessary chemical used in the tests. The head of one of the chemical trade bodies then says there’s no shortage and offers to supply the government with whatever it needs only to be told ‘no thanks’.

One of the deputy Chief Medical Officers said we’d have millions of antibody tests available to the general public within days then a few hours later we’re told that such a scenario is a long way off.

It’s the extent to which they’re prepared to lie and make major life changing decisions seemingly on the hoof that is very worrying.

[ewerk 30569]

7 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

An enquiry which will take years, become hugely politicised, and the outcome of which no one will take any notice of anyway, having decided to tar it with their own political bias without needing to engage with the material.

Sure let’s not bother trying to learn anything from this pandemic that cost thousands of lies. 

[Renton 21592]

Aye, I actually gave them the benefit of the doubt and thought they might rise to the occasion of this crisis. I'm an idiot. It's the usual lies, prevarication and back slapping bull shit from them, but this time it's directly killing thousands of people. 

[ewerk 30569]

Just now, Renton said:

Aye, I actually gave them the benefit of the doubt and thought they might rise to the occasion of this crisis. I'm an idiot. It's the usual lies, prevarication and back slapping bull shit from them, but this time it's directly killing thousands of people. 

I’m not one of those who believes that Dominic Cummings is some evil genius controlling every machine in government but the fact that public policy has been driven by a very small group of people relying on incorrect mathematical modelling and making decisions that were contrary to accepted practice does reek of his influence.

[Alex 35063]

They cycle seems to be - heavy criticism of the government over a failure of some sort in regard to tackling the crisis; the government promising x, y and z to fix the problem; the promise not being fulfilled; repeat 

[Alex 35063]

5 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I’m not one of those who believes that Dominic Cummings is some evil genius controlling every machine in government but the fact that public policy has been driven by a very small group of people relying on incorrect mathematical modelling and making decisions that were contrary to accepted practice does reek of his influence.

Johnson is way out of his depth and he knows it and probably knew it way before this all happened. For now he is the main influence on Johnson. He’s the de facto pm 

[Toonpack 9390]

21 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I’m not one of those who believes that Dominic Cummings is some evil genius controlling every machine in government but the fact that public policy has been driven by a very small group of people relying on incorrect mathematical modelling and making decisions that were contrary to accepted practice does reek of his influence.

I'm not sure there is any rationale behind what they are doing, I just think they are grossly incompetent and haven't got a fucking clue although I do still believe they are not averse to the "cull" that this is bringing.

[Gemmill 44811]

Johnson's latest Winston Churchill tribute video that he's put out is just pathetic. 

 

And I'm not sure about Kay Burley but she's doing exactly what is required when they stick an MP in front of her by rinsing them on the facts. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gemmill 44811]

 

 

[ewerk 30569]

Has anyone explained or been asked the question why we supposedly have the capacity for 12,750 tests per day yet only 8,600 were carried out on Monday? If we have the capacity and the manufacturers say that they have the tests then what’s the problem?

[Toonpack 9390]

18 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

• UK gov is using a 50-death cut-off for its comparisons of cumulative death toll. This puts us behind rather than ahead of Italy. It’s not incorrect, but it is a *choice* that flatters the UK

 

 

[Gemmill 44811]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Has anyone explained or been asked the question why we supposedly have the capacity for 12,750 tests per day yet only 8,600 were carried out on Monday? If we have the capacity and the manufacturers say that they have the tests then what’s the problem?

 

That's what I'm finding most infuriating. The constant reference to fucking capacity as if that's the relevant indicator. You can build all the capacity you like but you're not doing the fucking testing. It's like a supermarket with empty shelves saying not to worry about the food supply as it has the capacity to feed everyone. 

[Gemmill 44811]

Mentioned the decision not to involve ourselves in the EU scheme to order ventilators to my mam earlier. She told me that was the EU punishing us for refusing to prop up the poorer countries in the EU. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Gemmill

[NJS 4378]

I don't think it's a coincidence that the most decentralised and marketised, ultra-capitalist countries are the ones screwing it up - a plethora of NHS trusts with no central co-ordination and genuine offers of help from either chemical companies or university and other biological labs being dismissed in lieu of bitty, mismatched spending with no thought.

 

As others have said it's either rank icompetence, unwillingness to take central charge or a covert adherence to the herd immunity "plan".

 

I think now we'll be lucky to be out of lockdown by September.

[Renton 21592]

I think this disaster is a such a scale now major change in our political system is inevitable. The lies will be exposed (they already are). The nearest comparable event was probably Chernobyl, and this is much, much worse. Chernobyl was a huge contributor to the collapse of the USSR and communism in Europe.

 

 

[Gemmill 44811]

8 minutes ago, NJS said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that the most decentralised and marketised, ultra-capitalist countries are the ones screwing it up - a plethora of NHS trusts with no central co-ordination and genuine offers of help from either chemical companies or university and other biological labs being dismissed in lieu of bitty, mismatched spending with no thought.

 

As others have said it's either rank icompetence, unwillingness to take central charge or a covert adherence to the herd immunity "plan".

 

I think now we'll be lucky to be out of lockdown by September.

 

Mmmm bitty. 

[Renton 21592]

10 minutes ago, NJS said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that the most decentralised and marketised, ultra-capitalist countries are the ones screwing it up - a plethora of NHS trusts with no central co-ordination and genuine offers of help from either chemical companies or university and other biological labs being dismissed in lieu of bitty, mismatched spending with no thought.

 

As others have said it's either rank icompetence, unwillingness to take central charge or a covert adherence to the herd immunity "plan".

 

I think now we'll be lucky to be out of lockdown by September.

 

Only half agree. The first bit is correct, we are an extremely capitalististic country with a right wing and frankly incompetent government directing things. That's the issue.

 

But the NHS is probably the most integrated healthcare service in the western world, we should be able to coordinate our response better than any other comparable country. It is definitely centrally coordinated, it just doesn't have the required capacity.

[sammynb 3355]

21 minutes ago, NJS said:

I think now we'll be lucky to be out of lockdown by September.

 

Can I just point out, from what is going on here in Australia, the biggest problem you will face is actually getting people to stay in doors, no not all go to the park or the beach once the weather gets nicer.

It's like once the sun comes out stupidity reigns and that doesn't help the lockdown to flatten the curve.

Edited April 2, 2020 by sammynb

[ewerk 30569]

13 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Only half agree. The first bit is correct, we are an extremely capitalististic country with a right wing and frankly incompetent government directing things. That's the issue.

 

But the NHS is probably the most integrated healthcare service in the western world, we should be able to coordinate our response better than any other comparable country. It is definitely centrally coordinated, it just doesn't have the required capacity.

Also, isn’t the German system very much de-centralised federally? Yet they seem to have the testing problem figured out better than any European country.

[Rayvin 5217]

14 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Only half agree. The first bit is correct, we are an extremely capitalististic country with a right wing and frankly incompetent government directing things. That's the issue.

 

But the NHS is probably the most integrated healthcare service in the western world, we should be able to coordinate our response better than any other comparable country. It is definitely centrally coordinated, it just doesn't have the required capacity.

 

The Independent, international review carried out last year in global readiness had the UK as the second most prepared country to handle anything like this, and directly cited the NHS in the way you've referenced here. So you're totally right. The issue therefore cant be the NHS, it has to be political leadership. The US incidentally came first in that list.

[Renton 21592]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

The Independent, international review carried out last year in global readiness had the UK as the second most prepared country to handle anything like this, and directly cited the NHS in the way you've referenced here. So you're totally right. The issue therefore cant be the NHS, it has to be political leadership. The US incidentally came first in that list.

 

Yep. The political situation has been an utter disaster. Ultimately we as a people are to blame for that sadly, and we are going to pay. 

[NJS 4378]

26 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Only half agree. The first bit is correct, we are an extremely capitalististic country with a right wing and frankly incompetent government directing things. That's the issue.

 

But the NHS is probably the most integrated healthcare service in the western world, we should be able to coordinate our response better than any other comparable country. It is definitely centrally coordinated, it just doesn't have the required capacity.

Okay, I accept I'm a bit wrong - but doesnt the trust system lead to areas bidding against each other for resources much like the states in the US? Genuine question.