Coronavirus

[Dr Gloom 21912]

The entire global economy is going to shut down for a year or more. I don’t think Renton is understating it. We are looking at Great Depression 2.0

[Alex 35061]

He’ll blame the Chinese. Whether he gets elected or not will depend on how many he’s able to convince. If shit gets really bad for him he could go down the route of full on conspira-loon and says it’s been deliberate. Alex Jones et al will certainly be claiming this (if they aren’t already). 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Alex

[Dr Gloom 21912]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/03/23/great-depression-coronavirus-induced-calamity-145304

[Rayvin 5217]

If it gets anywhere near what that article is outlining, they'll let the elderly die. Even here.

[Gemmill 44805]

43 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Trump is laying the groundwork for him to claim that he tried to open the economy again but that individual states elected to ignore him. Probably democrat governed ones, which will also be referenced.

 

The death toll will be dismissed by saying how much bigger the US population is than Spain and Italy, and how "you should see how people over there are suffering because of their economy, their whole economy has collapsed and it's very sad, and they wish they had done what we did, we were very strong, no one did it better, etc"

 

You can't dismiss a death toll when the people to whom you're trying to dismiss it have all lost family members. When you're asking them to vote 2 weeks before their first thanksgiving dinner with empty chairs around the table. 

 

People aren't going to be ok with those empty chairs because the economy or because so and so country has it worse than us. Not when they're watching the videos of the smarmy cunt dismissing as a hoax the virus that killed their family member. 

 

He's done. And he knows it. That's why he's changed his tune on the lockdown and it's why he is rounding on every reporter that tries to query his response. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Gemmill

[Meenzer 15518]

Instinctively, it feels like the world is so much more connected and efficient nowadays that it should be able to bounce back much more quickly from a short-term economic hit than it did in the 1930s, for all there undoubtedly will be a massive short-term hit. Though obviously if we reach a point when the actual structures of capitalism are being realistically questioned then all bets are off.  

[Renton 21572]

9 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

If it gets anywhere near what that article is outlining, they'll let the elderly die. Even here.

 

Of course it will get that bad. This is utterly unprecedented, not being able to visit a cafe, restaurant or pub in 3 months. Never has a war done that.  30% unemployment, 50% GDP loss next quarter. If he survives that, as well as many thousands of avoidable deaths, I'll be slightly surprised. What good does blaming the Chinese do? Doesn't solve the issues does it? 

[Monkeys Fist 42378]

4 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

Instinctively, it feels like the world is so much more connected and efficient nowadays that it should be able to bounce back much more quickly from a short-term economic hit than it did in the 1930s, for all there undoubtedly will be a massive short-term hit. Though obviously if we reach a point when the actual structures of capitalism are being realistically questioned then all bets are off.  

Lots of people are re-evaluating their needs, lots of people are realising that we don’t need half of the shit we fight over. 
I think/hope there’ll be some change as a society for the better after this, but too many people have too much of their lives invested in capitalism to tear it down. 
 

Which is depressing as fuck. 

[Renton 21572]

10 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

Instinctively, it feels like the world is so much more connected and efficient nowadays that it should be able to bounce back much more quickly from a short-term economic hit than it did in the 1930s, for all there undoubtedly will be a massive short-term hit. Though obviously if we reach a point when the actual structures of capitalism are being realistically questioned then all bets are off.  

 

How does a bankruptee come back in the scenario there is no liquidity? The infrastructure is all there but I don't know how we can get out of this. The system will have to fundamentally change I think. 

[Meenzer 15518]

Well, true - if enough people realise that money is only imaginary anyway...

[Monkeys Fist 42378]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Of course it will get that bad. This is utterly unprecedented, not being able to visit a cafe, restaurant or pub in 3 months. Never has a war done that.  30% unemployment, 50% GDP loss next quarter. If he survives that, as well as many thousands of avoidable deaths, I'll be slightly surprised. What good does blaming the Chinese do? Doesn't solve the issues does it? 

Never mind all that nonsense, let’s focus on the real news  here please. 
 

Truly life changing stuff, there. 

[Gemmill 44805]

Corden can suck it. Seth Meyers on the other hand. His stuff is genuinely worth a watch. 

 

 

[Monkeys Fist 42378]

1 minute ago, Meenzer said:

Well, true - if enough people realise that money is only imaginary anyway...

I tried paying my tax with imaginary money and got a stern telling off. 

[Renton 21572]

Just now, Meenzer said:

Well, true - if enough people realise that money is only imaginary anyway...

It is, and this is more transparent than ever now physical money is done for.

 

We can head for the utopian vision of Rodenberry or the dystopia of so much sci fi. The latter looks more likely.

[Monkeys Fist 42378]

Blade Runner was only a year out, then.

[ewerk 30550]

30 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Lots of people are re-evaluating their needs, lots of people are realising that we don’t need half of the shit we fight over. 
I think/hope there’ll be some change as a society for the better after this

You poor, naive boy.

[Gemmill 44805]

 

 

Not now Kato! 

 

 

[Ayatollah Hermione 13857]

Not a single case reported there and I, for one, believe them.

[Meenzer 15518]

4 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Not a single case reported there and I, for one, believe them.

 

[Rayvin 5217]

52 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

Instinctively, it feels like the world is so much more connected and efficient nowadays that it should be able to bounce back much more quickly from a short-term economic hit than it did in the 1930s, for all there undoubtedly will be a massive short-term hit. Though obviously if we reach a point when the actual structures of capitalism are being realistically questioned then all bets are off.  

 

I agree with you. I just don't see this economic Armageddon happening, mostly because at some point the scales will tip and they will absolutely be ok with letting people die to preserve the 'actual structures'. They're not going to throw the global economic system under a bus for COVID-19 and a few hundred thousand dead. They've thrown more lives away in wars for a lot less.

 

The world will bounce back, there will be lipservice paid to learning lessons, but honestly they're not going to risk a total economic collapse. It just won't happen. I don't know why anyone thinks these right wing governments, motivated by money and power, are going to risk both of those things for the sake of human compassion.

[Monkeys Fist 42378]

15 minutes ago, ewerk said:

You poor, naive boy.

 

46 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Lots of people are re-evaluating their needs, lots of people are realising that we don’t need half of the shit we fight over. 
I think/hope there’ll be some change as a society for the better after this, but too many people have too much of their lives invested in capitalism to tear it down. 
 

Which is depressing as fuck. 

There’s the full bit, Piers.  

[Renton 21572]

6 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I agree with you. I just don't see this economic Armageddon happening, mostly because at some point the scales will tip and they will absolutely be ok with letting people die to preserve the 'actual structures'. They're not going to throw the global economic system under a bus for COVID-19 and a few hundred thousand dead. They've thrown more lives away in wars for a lot less.

 

The world will bounce back, there will be lipservice paid to learning lessons, but honestly they're not going to risk a total economic collapse. It just won't happen. I don't know why anyone thinks these right wing governments, motivated by money and power, are going to risk both of those things for the sake of human compassion.

 

How can they stop it? A huge proportion of people are going to lose everything, all at the same time. No capitalist system has been stress tested like this. The closest example, which was nowhere as bad, was the great depression which led to the new deal. So the answer to this won't be more of the same, because the economy is fundamentally broken. It can't go back to what it was before, that's gone.

 

Just take airlines. Every last one will go out of business imo. They'll have to be nationalised  on an unprecedented scale. But not just airlines. Hotel chains, leisure companies, even pub chains. If we want these things in the future the government will have to provide them, at least in the medium term. 

[Renton 21572]

I might add I don't get your point anyway Rayvin. I despise Johnson but there is no doubt he's introduced measures to maximise the saving of life. The economy is fucked whatever happens. 

[Rayvin 5217]

Just now, Renton said:

 

How can they stop it? A huge proportion of people are going to lose everything, all at the same time. No capitalist system has been stress tested like this. The closest example, which was nowhere as bad, was the great depression which led to the new deal. So the answer to this won't be more of the same, because the economy is fundamentally broken. It can't go back to what it was before, that's gone.

 

Just take airlines. Every last one will go out of business imo. They'll have to be nationalised  on an unprecedented scale. But not just airlines. Hotel chains, leisure companies, even pub chains. If we want these things in the future the government will have to provide them, at least in the medium term. 

 

They can send people back to work and lift the lockdowns. That's how they stop it. COVID-19 isn't causing the economic problems on its own, our response to it is. It could and almost certainly would cause a healthcare crisis on its own, but even that wouldn't be as bad as total economic collapse. If we get the latter, society is done. It's 2 days without food, I believe, for the wheels to come off society and Mad Max to start looking like a documentary.

 

They will not let that happen, they just won't. They'll take as many hits, as many companies going under as they can realistically afford to do, but there is a red line somewhere - once we hit that, the lockdown gets lifted to save the majority of the economy, no matter how many lives it costs.

[Rayvin 5217]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

I might add I don't get your point anyway Rayvin. I despise Johnson but there is no doubt he's introduced measures to maximise the saving of life. The economy is fucked whatever happens. 

 

I'm not saying he isn't, but we aren't in total economic collapse yet - the stakes will change if we get anywhere remotely close to it.