Coronavirus

[ewerk 31229]

It's typical of this government, big announcement with no idea of the detail or plan to implement it.

'Everyone back to school by June!'

'It's impossible'

'No, it's not'

'But where will we put everyone? Our schools are underfunded and we don't have the space. We can't physically do it'

'Nonsense, just believe'

 

June arrives:

'Yeah, turns out what we'd told you we were going to do was impossible'

[Alex 35616]

You get the distinct impression they’re attempting to stick to the timetable they had in place for the relaxation of lockdown regardless of the circumstances on the ground. With them trying to make the scientific evidence fit into that timetable instead of the former determining the latter. And the only thing as predictable as their not having proper plans to implement the relaxation is their blaming of teachers, unions etc for pointing out their failures. 

[NJS 4411]

You could tell that by the phasing out of the furlough scheme and other support stuff - they want a "normal" economy by October come hell or highwater. 

 

Maybe they're betting everything on the Oxford vaccine and I really hope it works but if it doesn't we're fucked. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by NJS

[trooper 940]

Miss T's a reception teacher at a small rural primary school. She's never really been away from school as she's  been in for Key Workers kids. She has a very small class with just over 50% turning in on Monday (first day back). She says she's lucky as her classroom shares a contained play area that's usually shared with the nursery next door luckily the nursery's closed at the minute. So she's able to spend a lot of time outside with them. Her & her T.A. are having to clean toilets & any toys the kids use. All soft toys  & cushions have been put in storage. They all  have school packed lunches in the classroom. 

[ewerk 31229]

Are the kids actually staying two metres apart? The clips I see on TV look strange and I wondered if they were able to keep it up all day.

[Alex 35616]

The government line is that Labour and the unions etc criticised them for planning to open schools and are now criticising them for not doing that. Not true of course, the criticism is about how they’ve had to renege on the reopening of schools because it wasn’t properly planned. 

[trooper 940]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Are the kids actually staying two metres apart? The clips I see on TV look strange and I wondered if they were able to keep it up all day.

Its impossible to do that in the "classroom bubble" they're 4/5 year olds. I think the idea is they dont mix with other kids outside the bubble. The downside is if anyone in the class shows any symptoms the whole class including Miss T must isolate at home. Theres a lot of trust in parents & the hope is if "Little Johnny" isn't feeling to good one morning he's not dosed up with Calpol & sent in. 

[PaddockLad 17704]

Daniel Hannan...even a stopped clock etc etc....

 

https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2020/06/daniel-hannan-one-man-driving-to-durham-imperils-the-nations-health-but-lots-of-people-protesting-in-london-doesnt-have-we-all-gone-mad.html

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3988]

13 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Daniel Hannan...even a stopped clock etc etc....

 

https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2020/06/daniel-hannan-one-man-driving-to-durham-imperils-the-nations-health-but-lots-of-people-protesting-in-london-doesnt-have-we-all-gone-mad.html

This kind of equation grips my shit. It’s like cunts on fb and Twitter saying “what about cops killed by criminals”. Cummings is a member of the government, we have an expectation that the people making the rules abide by them. We also get annoyed when they lie through their fucking teeth about it. We don’t hold protesters sick of racism to the same standards for a reason.

[PaddockLad 17704]

31 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

This kind of equation grips my shit. It’s like cunts on fb and Twitter saying “what about cops killed by criminals”. Cummings is a member of the government, we have an expectation that the people making the rules abide by them. We also get annoyed when they lie through their fucking teeth about it. We don’t hold protesters sick of racism to the same standards for a reason.

In the midst of a pandemic we fuckin well should do.  10 weeks of lockdown are irrelevant otherwise.

Edited June 10, 2020 by PaddockLad

[trooper 940]

6 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

In the midst of a pandemic we fuckin well should do.  10 weeks of lockdown are rrelevant otherwise.

2nd wave incoming in a couple of weeks. There was well over a million people protesting on the London streets at the weekend. No social distancing, with many police & protesters not wearing any face coverings. 

[Renton 22015]

Well I'm not sure. Not often I disagree PL but I do here.

 

It makes little sense to compare what Cummings did with a collective. But what Cummings did as an individual was probably worse than what the huge majority of individual protesters did at the weekend. He travelled hundreds of miles with symptoms at the PEAK of infection. And of course, he refused to apologise, lied through his teeth, and got the government including the health secretary and the attorney general to back him that his actions were acceptable. This has caused me and probably millions of others to completely lose whatever tiny bit of faith I had in the government, including some protesters, I imagine. To the extent I do not trust them on anything and will not be part of track and trace. Common sense for me from now on.

 

I would say this was much, much more damaging than a few thousand protesters letting off steam in an outside environment. And Hannon is a total cunt who is always wrong. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Renton

[Meenzer 15740]

21 minutes ago, trooper said:

There was well over a million people protesting on the London streets at the weekend.

 

Surely not.

[PaddockLad 17704]

The mass protests have given right wing wankers like Hannan the chance to take the moral high ground here. If we're critcising Cheltenham going ahead & Madrid fans in Liverpool am not sure we can turn a blind eye to mass gatherings at the other end of lockdown. I have no problem with anything anyone said about the Cummings carry on but ffs this is a gift for the right & those members of the public who wish to justify their vote for them, just when the Cummings affair had badly damaged Tory voters' perception of those who they've put in power. More of that will have to happen if there's any chance of getting rid of the cunts but this is a massive step backwards iyam.

[Renton 22015]

2 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

The mass protests have given right wing wankers like Hannan the chance to take the moral high ground here. If we're critcising Cheltenham going ahead & Madrid fans in Liverpool am not sure we can turn a blind eye to mass gatherings at the other end of lockdown. I have no problem with anything anyone said about the Cummings carry on but ffs this is a gift for the right & those members of the public who wish to justify their vote for them, just when the Cummings affair had badly damaged Tory voters' perception of those who they've put in power. More of that will have to happen if there's any chance of getting rid of the cunts but this is a massive step backwards iyam.

 

Again though it comes down to collective vs individual responsibility. I've lost count of the amount of people complaining about the amount of people out and about, whilst out and about themselves. Me included.

 

Who was responsible for Cheltenham and Liverpool? The government. You can't put the blame of those events on the attendees. Those events occurred at the time of exponential spread and were not entirely outdoor events as public bars and restaurants were open, it was shameful negligencein the pursuit of herd immunity.

 

This is different, I dont think the protests will make any difference to the figures going forward. They were outside and prevalence is now low. And I've given up giving a shit who the average Mail reader thinks is to blame, they are a lost cause. I know who is to blame, and that is 100% the government. 

[PaddockLad 17704]

14 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Again though it comes down to collective vs individual responsibility. I've lost count of the amount of people complaining about the amount of people out and about, whilst out and about themselves. Me included.

 

Who was responsible for Cheltenham and Liverpool? The government. You can't put the blame of those events on the attendees. Those events occurred at the time of exponential spread and were not entirely outdoor events as public bars and restaurants were open, it was shameful negligencein the pursuit of herd immunity.

 

This is different, I dont think the protests will make any difference to the figures going forward. They were outside and prevalence is now low. And I've given up giving a shit who the average Mail reader thinks is to blame, they are a lost cause. I know who is to blame, and that is 100% the government. 

 

Every single one of us has made decisions  based on risk in the last 3 months over and above what the government has instructed. Personal responsibility has had to play a part in all this. Cummings showed none, neither did the crowds at Cheltenham nor the protesters. Yes the government have been fundamentally fuckin wrong every step of the way. But so have millions of the great British public.

Edited June 10, 2020 by PaddockLad

[trooper 940]

29 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

 

Surely not.

Fast forward this to about 1hr 10 mins in mate 

 

[Renton 22015]

12 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

Every single one of us has made decisions  based on risk in the last 3 months over and above what the government has instructed. Personal responsibility has had to play a part in all this. Cummings showed none, neither did the crowds at Cheltenham nor the protesters. Yes the government have been fundamentally fuckin wrong every step of the way. But so have millions of the great British public.

 

Hold on. Cheltenham was undertaken whilst the government stated it wasn't a risk, before lockdown. The government has since released lockdown, effectively allowing for the gathering of large crowds, be that on Bournemouth beaches or around statues of slave traders. The government has said it is acceptable to travel hundreds of miles in a car with others, including children, whilst symptomatic, and to drive where the fuck you like to test your eyesight. The attorney general, who is supposed to be impartial, has publically stated this was not illegal, even during lockdown, so its surely okay now?

 

What we needed was a societal response to the pandemic, but for that to work, we absolutely have to led by the government. They have completely failed to give that lead, so yes, now its entirely up to what each individual thinks is acceptable according to his or hers own risk. Clearly the demonstrators were happy to take the risk they did for them. Fair enough. They did nothing wrong, ask the government. 

 

 

[Rayvin 5317]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Hold on. Cheltenham was undertaken whilst the government stated it wasn't a risk, before lockdown. The government has since released lockdown, effectively allowing for the gathering of large crowds, be that on Bournemouth beaches or around statues of slave traders. The government has said it is acceptable to travel hundreds of miles in a car with others, including children, whilst symptomatic, and to drive where the fuck you like to test your eyesight. The attorney general, who is supposed to be impartial, has publically stated this was not illegal, even during lockdown, so its surely okay now?

 

What we needed was a societal response to the pandemic, but for that to work, we absolutely have to led by the government. They have completely failed to give that lead, so yes, now its entirely up to what each individual thinks is acceptable according to his or hers own risk. Clearly the demonstrators were happy to take the risk they did for them. Fair enough. They did nothing wrong, ask the government. 

 

 

 

For PL to be right you have to effectively acknowledge that the government are completely incompetent and not fit for purpose, and that we should all behave responsibly despite them. Which is very reasonable.

 

Renton is of course arguing that once the government flout the rules or move them around, the public can't be blamed for following suit. Which is also an understandable position.

 

In the end, I agree with Renton because his interpretation is most harmful to the Tories, and has the possibility of forcing better behaviour from them if we go into a second lockdown. And also because the horse has bolted now and PL's interpretation, with the horse having bolted, gives the government some political capital to explain away a second lockdown (and I am very aware that it is not his intent to give them this).

 

So in reality, PL is right. They should and most likely do know better. In Tory UK in 2020 however, we need Renton to be right.

[ewerk 31229]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52993734

 

And yet we only began quarantining arrival from abroad *checks notes*... two days ago.

[PaddockLad 17704]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Hold on. Cheltenham was undertaken whilst the government stated it wasn't a risk, before lockdown. The government has since released lockdown, effectively allowing for the gathering of large crowds, be that on Bournemouth beaches or around statues of slave traders. The government has said it is acceptable to travel hundreds of miles in a car with others, including children, whilst symptomatic, and to drive where the fuck you like to test your eyesight. The attorney general, who is supposed to be impartial, has publically stated this was not illegal, even during lockdown, so its surely okay now?

 

What we needed was a societal response to the pandemic, but for that to work, we absolutely have to led by the government. They have completely failed to give that lead, so yes, now its entirely up to what each individual thinks is acceptable according to his or hers own risk. Clearly the demonstrators were happy to take the risk they did for them. Fair enough. They did nothing wrong, ask the government. 

 

 

 

I agree with most of this. But I'm fucked if I'm getting the virus then just blaming the government for me & possibly others getting it. I work in doctors' surgeries with Red areas every day, I'm sitting directly below one now. None of the staff here has come down with it because there's a clinical lead setting the rules. The country however is led by a buffoon who was too utterly fuckin useless to avoid catching it himself in an office environment . I'll make my own decisions on what's safe & what's not. It's just the way I see it. The example set by the government has been beyond abysmal, but any of us with a bit of common sense know that mass gatherings are a bad idea at the moment given the absence of anti virals or a vaccine. 

[ewerk 31229]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

For PL to be right you have to effectively acknowledge that the government are completely incompetent and not fit for purpose, and that we should all behave responsibly despite them. Which is very reasonable.

 

Renton is of course arguing that once the government flout the rules or move them around, the public can't be blamed for following suit. Which is also an understandable position.

 

In the end, I agree with Renton because his interpretation is most harmful to the Tories, and has the possibility of forcing better behaviour from them if we go into a second lockdown. And also because the horse has bolted now and PL's interpretation, with the horse having bolted, gives the government some political capital to explain away a second lockdown (and I am very aware that it is not his intent to give them this).

 

So in reality, PL is right. They should and most likely do know better. In Tory UK in 2020 however, we need Renton to be right.

EVERYONE'S RIGHT IN RAYVINLAND!

[Rayvin 5317]

I'm just being inclusive

 

[Renton 22015]

8 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

I agree with most of this. But I'm fucked if I'm getting the virus then just blaming the government for me & possibly others getting it. I work in doctors' surgeries with Red areas every day, I'm sitting directly below one now. None of the staff here has come down with it because there's a clinical lead setting the rules. The country however is led by a buffoon who was too utterly fuckin useless to avoid catching it himself in an office environment . I'll make my own decisions on what's safe & what's not. It's just the way I see it. The example set by the government has been beyond abysmal, but any of us with a bit of common sense know that mass gatherings are a bad idea at the moment given the absence of anti virals or a vaccine. 

 

I do agree, I think you might over estimating the risk from outside mass gatherings though, at least I hope so, because I like to get out. It's close indoor contact I worry about. The government guidance is meanwhile all over the place. Apparently from Monday I have to wear a surgical mask at my desk at all times, even though it is a non clinical area, and I am 5 metres from my colleague. Why this, why now when prevalenceis much less? Are they going to supply me with this PPE? Fucking nonsense. Take care of yourself PL because this lot of arseholes aren't going to help you. 

 

Off for my antibody test now, hope by some miracle I've had it, very unlikely though. 

[Gemmill 46105]

Even if you've had it, you won't have retained any antibodies, Point Break.