Coronavirus

[Renton 21629]

3 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

You’re the one who wants proof 

 

i would have thought it’s pretty likely wouldn’t you?

 

That German cars are down more than other brands? No, I think that's very unlikely. Why would they be? They are exported tariff free and have always held a premium.

[OTF 7297]

22 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

 

 

Define competent medical professional

 

I have been given very different recommendations from various medical people over the years

 

novavax is an actual vaccine that has been delayed

 

there is nothing magical about it

 

i would just prefer to take it than the other vaccines and I’m not alone

 

Just answer the question, it's not a difficult question. I didn't ask for your medical history.

 

You're right, you're not alone, you're no doubt in some sort of echo chamber with like minded people espousing the same counter authority rhetoric to cover for being scared/silly/anti-intellectualist or whatever it happens to be.

[Renton 21629]

6 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

 

 

I don’t owe you any justification but it’s my body and my choice. A founding principle of medicine I believe.

 

Yes, I agree. I think we all do. But your choice should have further consequences which of course it does in France. 

[Asprilla 96]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

That German cars are down more than other brands? No, I think that's very unlikely. Why would they be? They are exported tariff free and have always held a premium.

No I’m not suggesting that German car sales are down more than other EU countries’ car exports, i’m suggesting that car exports are a more relevant part of the German economy

 

 

 

 

This has got to be one of the lamest ways I’ve spent time btw

[OTF 7297]

11 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

There are lots of different medicines

 

are you recommending people take all of the medicines? 

 

No, I didn't say anything remotely similar.

 

Let me dumb it down for you as you seem to have selective comprehension issues; not doing what the medical fraternity advises with current health crises (when on an individual or societal level) will generally result in poor health outcomes.

 

Sometimes those long term outcomes will be for you, sometimes they will be for other more vulnerable members in the community. Luckily most members of society are intelligent enough to realise this which makes up, in part, for the dead weight like you, who would otherwise be dragging everyone down. Some people are selfish and lack empathy, they're of the narcissistic "got mine, fuck everyone else" child like mentality whether or not they know or accept it. Dressing it up like an individual health concern doesn't fool anyone.

[Asprilla 96]

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Yes, I agree. I think we all do. But your choice should have further consequences which of course it does in France. 

Possibly. I’m personally quite happy to avoid the places where I’m not permitted without a health pass although it’s questionable ethically.

 

but to play devils advocate

 

what if there were long term health problems for people who took mRNA vaccines

 

how would you feel if people who didn’t take them said you shouldn’t have medical care?

[Renton 21629]

Just now, Asprilla said:

No I’m not suggesting that German car sales are down more than other EU countries’ car exports, i’m suggesting that car exports are a more relevant part of the German economy

 

 

 

 

This has got to be one of the lamest ways I’ve spent time btw

 

Right. So given exports on cars are tariff free (both ways), what's Brexit got to do with it? As has been mentioned, the main bottleneck in the European car industry (including UK) has been a drought in semi-conductors. Is your point as banal as Germany is affected worse because it has a bigger car industry? 

[Asprilla 96]

1 minute ago, OTF said:

 

No, I didn't say anything remotely similar.

 

Let me dumb it down for you as you seem to have selective comprehension issues; not doing what the medical fraternity advises with current health crises (when on an individual or societal level) will generally result in poor health outcomes.

 

Sometimes those long term outcomes will be for you, sometimes they will be for other more vulnerable members in the community. Luckily most members of society are intelligent enough to realise this which makes up, in part, for the dead weight like you, who would otherwise be dragging everyone down. Some people are selfish and lack empathy, they're of the narcissistic "got mine, fuck everyone else" child like mentality whether or not they know or accept it. Dressing it up like an individual health concern doesn't fool anyone.

You really have bought into this narrative haven’t you

 

For the last time I am not indifferent to people

 

How am I doing any more harm than people who travel widely and catch and spread the virus?

 

 

[Renton 21629]

2 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

Possibly. I’m personally quite happy to avoid the places where I’m not permitted without a health pass although it’s questionable ethically.

 

but to play devils advocate

 

what if there were long term health problems for people who took mRNA vaccines

 

how would you feel if people who didn’t take them said you shouldn’t have medical care?

 

Is thus more false equivalence? Who is saying the non-vaccinated shouldn't have medical care? Tempting as that is.

 

I understand molecular biology to a sufficient standard to be certain these vaccines will have no long term effects in any case, you simply don't have this understanding.

[Isegrim 9794]

17 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

You’re the one who wants proof 

 

i would have thought it’s pretty likely wouldn’t you?

https://www.vda.de/dam/jcr:f08992df-82b5-4aa3-a101-b686101e0b55/Analysen 2021.pdf
 

This is the latest report from the car industry itself about numbers in 2020. It shows that car exports to most countries fell by double figures. Exports to the Uk took a huge hit but so did exports to the US, France, Spain, US and Japan with numbers being down by more than 30%. Most numbers are equal or worse to exports to the UK.

So it is 1 + 1 = 1066 tbh

[Asprilla 96]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Is thus more false equivalence? Who is saying the non-vaccinated shouldn't have medical care? Tempting as that is.

 

I understand molecular biology to a sufficient standard to be certain these vaccines will have no long term effects in any case, you simply don't have this understanding.

“Tempting as that is”?!!

 

jesus christ

 

i said it as a hypothetical

 

it wouldn’t occur to me to want to “punish” people who had made a different choice but as you indicate, the feeling isn’t mutual

 

its a bit arrogant to say you’re certain what the long term effects will be, biology degree or not

 

you can at best say that you strongly believe it but certainty is a bit of a stretch

[Renton 21629]

5 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

“Tempting as that is”?!!

 

jesus christ

 

i said it as a hypothetical

 

it wouldn’t occur to me to want to “punish” people who had made a different choice but as you indicate, the feeling isn’t mutual

 

its a bit arrogant to say you’re certain what the long term effects will be, biology degree or not

 

you can at best say that you strongly believe it but certainty is a bit of a stretch

 

I'm as certain as I can be about anything. I mean, somehow the whole paradigm of molecular biology might be wrong, but that's like saying gravity might not exist.

 

It's tempting because non-vaccinated people are 10 times more likely to occupy a hospital bed than a fully vaccinated person. That's not just a cost, it's an opportunity cost. The bed they are taking may well be depriving a person with a stroke or heart attack having a bed. They are indirectly killing people on the basis of nothing more than ignorance and intransigence. So yeah, tempting. 

[OTF 7297]

44 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

You really have bought into this narrative haven’t you

 

How am I doing any more harm than people who travel widely and catch and spread the virus?

 

 

 

What narrative are you referring to? The one where millions of people have died due to the ongoing global pandemic?

 

Pointing out someone else who may or may not be worse than you doesn't make your decision a better one, or you less selfish.

[Asprilla 96]

22 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I'm as certain as I can be about anything. I mean, somehow the whole paradigm of molecular biology might be wrong, but that's like saying gravity might not exist.

 

It's tempting because non-vaccinated people are 10 times more likely to occupy a hospital bed than a fully vaccinated person. That's not just a cost, it's an opportunity cost. The bed they are taking may well be depriving a person with a stroke or heart attack having a bed. They are indirectly killing people on the basis of nothing more than ignorance and intransigence. So yeah, tempting. 

 

 

The NHS is full of people with arguably self inflicted problems. Do you reckon we should go around shaming fat people or smokers for taking up a bed too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Asprilla 96]

3 minutes ago, OTF said:

 

What narrative are you referring to? The one where millions of people have died due to the ongoing global pandemic?

 

Pointing out someone else who may or may not be worse than you doesn't make your decision a better one, or you less selfish.

You took this vaccine to protect yourself. The fact that vaccinated people are still spreading it shows that they are happy to carry on as normal knowing that they will be ok.

[Isegrim 9794]

8 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

You took this vaccine to protect yourself. The fact that vaccinated people are still spreading it shows that they are happy to carry on as normal knowing that they will be ok.

There have been studies pre-omicron that vaccinations don’t jjust protect yourself but are also effective in reducing transmission. I know a lot of people who foremost got vaccinated to protect vulnerable relatives.

But I do agree with you that getting vaccinated shouldn’t stop you acting responsible because of the risk of both catching and transmitting the virus, especially with the new variant.

 I take a lft every time I go to work or mix up too much with people.

[OTF 7297]

59 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

You took this vaccine to protect yourself. The fact that vaccinated people are still spreading it shows that they are happy to carry on as normal knowing that they will be ok.

 

You've already proved you know next to nothing, you can rest your case.

[Asprilla 96]

3 hours ago, OTF said:

 

You've already proved you know next to nothing, you can rest your case.

Everything in that post is true and you know it 👍🏼

[strawb 4268]

The Facebook prophet up and at them again with his hot takes and discussion points. 

[Meenzer 15550]

Whatever our views on everything else, I'm sure we can all come together and agree that the Djokovic situation is objectively hilarious.

 

[OTF 7297]

4 hours ago, Asprilla said:

Everything in that post is true and you know it 👍🏼

 

I work from home, have been since early 2020. I'm young, fit and healthy. I took the vaccine because medical professionals expressed with copious amounts of evidence that being vaccinated was going to result in the best possible health outcomes for all, especially the elderly and the unwell. I sought out getting it as soon as possible (had to wait a while due to my age) and was vaccinated with both doses. When I'm due my booster I will be getting it. I continue to work from home. I go out to the shops for food etc, visit family (including my parents who were another tick in the box for getting vaccinated - they too were vaccinated as soon as possible, they're retired) and don't do a whole bunch more apart from playing social sport when restrictions allow it.

 

I'm not a doctor or in health care so I listen to what the experts in the field advise, doing my own reading along the way and looking at the countless example countries around the world where the results of a variety of different approaches are evident. In particular I have been interested in what's happening in England because through this forum I have a conduit to it.

[Alex 35095]

15 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

Whatever our views on everything else, I'm sure we can all come together and agree that the Djokovic situation is objectively hilarious.

 

Absolutely. Probably would have gone under the radar had he not announced it on social media to try and make himself look like a hero. 

[ewerk 30627]

 

[Dr Gloom 21935]

What did Novak win exactly? Not the Australian Open, obviously 

[wykikitoon 20194]

Isn't the case for this is that Djokovic hasn't declared whether he is vaccinated or not?

Everyone is assuming he isn't.  Surly he's allowed to keep it private.