Coronavirus

[trooper 940]

4 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

I’ve heard the gene thing mentioned as a possibility

 

interesting that they may have all caught a protective milder variant though

 

[Asprilla 96]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

Fair enough, but bringing it up at all wasn't relevant or nice was it? Luckily I'm vaccinated and despite being clinically at risk, hopefully this will be relatively mild for me. You might not be so lucky.

Well you weren’t being particularly nice to me either… and it is a thread about covid

 

I probably shouldn’t have said it but you probably didn’t need to call me a cunt multiple times either

 

as I said I hope you get better soon and I’m sorry about your dad

[Monkeys Fist 42459]

Out of order there mind Renton. 
 

What are you thinking of by presenting a fucking snowflake with the consequences of his choices, particularly when they haven’t affected him directly?

 

Give your head a shake, you reasonable chap. 

[Asprilla 96]

1 minute ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Out of order there mind Renton. 
 

What are you thinking of by presenting a fucking snowflake with the consequences of his choices, particularly when they haven’t affected him directly?

 

Give your head a shake, you reasonable chap. 

Not sure why you’re wading in with the insults?

 

the vaccine pass does little to stop the spread of Covid 

 

here in France you either had to provide proof of vaccination or proof of a negative test

 

Now they’re trying to scrap the negative test provision

 

if you think that makes people safer then I don’t know what to say, especially as vaccinated people are more able to travel and socialise while also being able to transmit the disease

 

i (to my knowledge) haven’t caught Covid and have tried very hard not to.

 

as a result I am very unlikely to have given it to anyone either

[Asprilla 96]

A negative test pass would be far more effective, unless of course the goal is to vaccinate everyone rather than stop the spread 

[ewerk 30633]

Just now, Asprilla said:

A negative test pass would be far more effective, unless of course the goal is to vaccinate everyone rather than stop the spread 

That's exactly what the aim is, Inspector Clouseau. To get this to a point where we can live with it.

I could understand vaccine hesitancy at the beginning but with over nine billion doses given already worldwide there's plenty of evidence that they're safe and the refuseniks are simply idiots.

[Asprilla 96]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

That's exactly what the aim is, Inspector Clouseau. To get this to a point where we can live with it.

I could understand vaccine hesitancy at the beginning but with over nine billion doses given already worldwide there's plenty of evidence that they're safe and the refuseniks are simply idiots.

Nope, just don’t want to take this particular version but by all

means continue the oh so healthy “otherising”

 

Not sure I follow your logic either

 

vaccinated people can transmit, catch and die from Covid (at admittedly lower rates) yet a system that would keep transmission rates lower (ie a negative test) is worse?

[ewerk 30633]

My understanding is that there is no independent verification of a negative lateral flow test so it can easily be faked? Certainly in the UK. If not then there simply aren't the resources to independently test everyone going into a bar or cafe.

Getting vaccinated helps keep people out of hospital and pressures off the healthcare system. That has been the aim of most government's for a long time. If you haven't figured that out by now then you mightn't be the sharpest tool but a tool nonetheless. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by ewerk

[Asprilla 96]

Just now, ewerk said:

My understanding is that there is no independent verification of a negative lateral flow test so it can't easily be faked?

Getting vaccinated helps keep people out of hospital and pressures off the healthcare system. That has been the aim of most government's for a long time. If you haven't figured that out by now then you mightn't be the sharpest tool but a tool nonetheless. 

Just out of interest why do you feel the need to add the ad hominems?

 

Just talk about the points 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[Meenzer 15551]

Isn't an ad hominem when you attack a person instead of addressing their points? We may require a different pseudo-intellectual Latin phrase for addressing someone's points then adding an extra dig just for the hell of it.

[ewerk 30633]

I just thought he was calling me a poof.

[Renton 21636]

14 minutes ago, Meenzer said:

Isn't an ad hominem when you attack a person instead of addressing their points? We may require a different pseudo-intellectual Latin phrase for addressing someone's points then adding an extra dig just for the hell of it.

 

Exactly. Also, calling someone a cunt isn't really an ad hom attack at all is it unless Asprilla really is a vagina. Attacking someone because they are covid positive might be like.

 

I've noticed this with a lot of the wums here. Wolfy, Asprilla, and CT back in the day. All very polite whilst espousing views they know are generally offensive to this community.. It's a deliberate strategy to claim the moral high ground when occasion suits. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Renton

[OTF 7297]

3 hours ago, Asprilla said:

There are virologists and doctors who don’t agree with how it’s being handled… including the guy who invented mRNA 

 

As well as being partially wrong this is classic anti-vaxxer talk. Have you ever been to a Dr and thought this Dr is not very good? Or are all Drs equal? So is it that the handful that say the opposite to the thousands and thousands that are right because they're the only ones who are competent or not corrupt? Or are you listening to those not very good (or worse) Drs?

 

One thing this pandemic has proved to me is how many misguided or logic lacking people are out there. Thankfully the majority of folk are considerate enough to take on the small risk that vastly reduces the much bigger risk for the elderly, immunocompromised or those with significant comorbidities. Hopefully we can move beyond this soon and the selfish, ill-informed can go back into hiding.

 

The above paragraph is not a shot at you Asprilla, as I've only seen part of your opinion.

[acrossthepond 877]

12 minutes ago, Renton said:

I've noticed this with a lot of the wums here. Wolfy, Asprilla, and CT back in the day. All very polite whilst espousing views they know are generally offensive to this community.. It's a deliberate strategy to claim the moral high ground when occasion suits. 

It's called sealioning, common troll tactic. Here's the origin:

http://wondermark.com/c/2014-09-19-1062sea.png

EDIT: Image won't embed.

Edited January 5, 2022 by acrossthepond

[Gemmill 44935]

2 minutes ago, acrossthepond said:

It's called sealioning, common troll tactic. Here's the origin:

http://wondermark.com/c/2014-09-19-1062sea.png

EDIT: Image won't embed.

 

 at the image. 

 

[Asprilla 96]

16 minutes ago, acrossthepond said:

It's called sealioning, common troll tactic. Here's the origin:

http://wondermark.com/c/2014-09-19-1062sea.png

EDIT: Image won't embed.

It’s not called anything.

 

You just give it a name so you can feel that you don’t need to be civil.

[NJS 4389]

26 minutes ago, OTF said:

 

As well as being partially wrong this is classic anti-vaxxer talk. Have you ever been to a Dr and thought this Dr is not very good? Or are all Drs equal? So is it that the handful that say the opposite to the thousands and thousands that are right because they're the only ones who are competent or not corrupt? Or are you listening to those not very good (or worse) Drs?

 

One thing this pandemic has proved to me is how many misguided or logic lacking people are out there. Thankfully the majority of folk are considerate enough to take on the small risk that vastly reduces the much bigger risk for the elderly, immunocompromised or those with significant comorbidities. Hopefully we can move beyond this soon and the selfish, ill-informed can go back into hiding.

 

The above paragraph is not a shot at you Asprilla, as I've only seen part of your opinion.

I know that sometimes I'm over idealistic and I know at least 35% and more of the people in this country are willing to vote tory but I've been impressed to an extent by the community spirit so far especially the general support for lockdowns. 

 

However the stubborn number of selfish toddlers who point blank refuse to give a shit about other people citing freedom, basic lack of scientific knowledge or just plain cuntishness is absolutely maddening. 

 

As I've said before when it comes to threats to society on this level I'd have no problem with Chinese and beyond levels of authoritarianism in terms of internment, compulsory enforced isolation and even compulsory vaccination. If you think those measures are too much then I hope you aren't a British exceptionalist war worshipper because all of those are "normal" wartime measures. 

 

We're going to struggle with this shit for years now because of pandering to the toddlers by the toddlers in charge all because of the me, me, me generations. 

 

 

[Asprilla 96]

2 minutes ago, NJS said:

I know that sometimes I'm over idealistic and I know at least 35% and more of the people in this country are willing to vote tory but I've been impressed to an extent by the community spirit so far especially the general support for lockdowns. 

 

However the stubborn number of selfish toddlers who point blank refuse to give a shit about other people citing freedom, basic lack of scientific knowledge or just plain cuntishness is absolutely maddening. 

 

As I've said before when it comes to threats to society on this level I'd have no problem with Chinese and beyond levels of authoritarianism in terms of internment, compulsory enforced isolation and even compulsory vaccination. If you think those measures are too much then I hope you aren't a British exceptionalist war worshipper because all of those are "normal" wartime measures. 

 

We're going to struggle with this shit for years now because of pandering to the toddlers by the toddlers in charge all because of the me, me, me generations. 

 

 

Jesus wept

 

People who need to be given rules and mandates from a government to feel safe are the toddlers

 

Take plenty of vitamin D, exercise and stay away from people where possible especially vulnerable people is all that’s needed

 

 

[Alex 35095]

6 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

Jesus wept

 

People who need to be given rules and mandates from a government to feel safe are the toddlers

 

Take plenty of vitamin D, exercise and stay away from people where possible especially vulnerable people is all that’s needed

 

 

#BigTruths 👍🏻

[Asprilla 96]

And take the vaccine if you wish

[Asprilla 96]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

#BigTruths 👍🏻

Out of interest, would you prefer the lockdown/authoritarian/compulsory vaccine model or the use common sense/don’t break society/take vaccines if you wish model?

[scoobos 298]

13 minutes ago, Asprilla said:

Jesus wept

 

People who need to be given rules and mandates from a government to feel safe are the toddlers

 

Take plenty of vitamin D, exercise and stay away from people where possible especially vulnerable people is all that’s needed

 

 

I struggle with this line "People who need to be given rules and mandates from a government" Clearly some people do, as they find being asked to wear a mask on public transport, during a pandemic, as an assault on liberty. The UK , US and Brazil are in a minority of countries who call Covid Mitigation - Covid Restrictions - its for a reason. They want business as usual and people spending and to somehow say that Public Health protection measures are tied to liberty and freedom.  

Well what's the role of a government in a national emergency if not to govern .

If we didn't need rules and mandates we'd need no police etc. People need clear rules and governance, not guidance and unenforceable crap. There's a reason we've lost so many people per capita.
 

Also, calling people snowflakes for "needing them" , is a little ironic given that anyone over the age of 40 pretty much grew up with Public Information Films from the government, telling you not to let your kids eat smarty coloured tablets.

Edited January 5, 2022 by scoobos

[Rayvin 5223]

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular but I feel moved to say it. I think it's difficult to have civil discourse these days because the frames of reference for factual information aren't aligned anymore. These days your average guy in the street thinks that his opinion carries as much weight as someone who has researched and specialised in a particular area for many years of their life - we've talked about this before, it comes from the Michael Gove style trashing of experts that was key to getting things like Brexit/Trump over the line. If people don't like facts based on evidence, give them "alternative facts".

 

This notion we've somehow arrived at that all that's in the mix are a series of equally valid opinions is just a nonsense. It's not true. My personal opinion on covid, our response to it, the measures we should take, etc cannot ever stand up on equal footing with someone who works in the field, or has a PhD in a related area, or lives and breathes this stuff day in and day out through their entire lives. My opinion is so far below theirs that it's not even worth mentioning it. And yet that's what so many anti-vaxxers think, they fundamentally believe that their views are equal. It's actually offensive to the entire idea of a knowledge based society. We can't all have equal opinions in everything because we can't all specialise in everything.

 

A big part of the issue, in truth, is that many of these people don't understand how rigorous the academic process is. We're worlds away from "journalistic research" with this stuff, it's unbelievably complex, pored over by peers in the field, repeated ad nauseum and so on, until we get to a stage where we're confident that it's as right as we can say. And then, other people take that data and research and go off and try to replicate it, try to build on it, all the while it's being critiqued over and over by people who have spent literal decades specialising in this. Their opinion is just always, always going to be worth more than mine. That doesn't mean I'm not as smart as them, or that I'm surrendering my own personal agency, it just means I'm recognising reality.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Rayvin

[Alex 35095]

1 minute ago, Asprilla said:

Out of interest, would you prefer the lockdown/authoritarian/compulsory vaccine model or the use common sense/don’t break society/take vaccines if you wish model?

Yeah 

[scoobos 298]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular but I feel moved to say it. I think it's difficult to have civil discourse these days because the frames of reference for factual information aren't aligned anymore. These days your average guy in the street thinks that his opinion carries as much weight as someone who has researched and specialised in a particular area for many years of their life - we've talked about this before, it comes from the Michael Gove style trashing of experts that was key to getting things like Brexit/Trump over the line. If people don't like facts based on evidence, give them "alternative facts".

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly, but would add that I think the energy companies misinformation spread and decades long campaign against the science of climate change - are probably more to blame than Micheal Gove in the UK.

The film "Don't look up" on Netflix at the moment is worth a watch. 

I think the pandemic response is climate change in a microcosm. Ignore it - its too far away, Deny it, Counter it - act when its too late and too slowly, because economies might suffer.