Coronavirus

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

So what are the main criticisms of the government? PPE? Obviously there'll be shortcomings to address but if we've gotten through the first wave without any danger of hitting capacity then I'm not sure I get this clamour for heads on sticks.

[Monkeys Fist 42457]

It’s because they put economy before lives, in a nutshell. 
They delayed introducing lockdowns against all their scientist’s advice, and cost unnecessary loss of lives by doing so. 
Because they’re a pack of cunts. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

Is protecting the economy really a stick to beat them with? I'm already worried about my job. More than I am about dying anyway. I thought it was accepted that this thing was going to run riot anyway and that ensuring the NHS has capacity to deal with it was a good strategy. If they've achieved the latter then is it fair to make hypotheses about what the outcomes may have otherwise been? A lot of it feels like faux outrage.

[Monkeys Fist 42457]

Ok

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

The absence of Boris and "Saj" from the front line has possibly made the government more palatable in the sort term. I'm sorry.

[ewerk 30616]

3 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

Is protecting the economy really a stick to beat them with? I'm already worried about my job. More than I am about dying anyway. I thought it was accepted that this thing was going to run riot anyway and that ensuring the NHS has capacity to deal with it was a good strategy. If they've achieved the latter then is it fair to make hypotheses about what the outcomes may have otherwise been? A lot of it feels like faux outrage.

That wasn’t the strategy to begin with. The plan was to let everyone have it and the inevitable deaths were just collateral damage.

We has months to prepare for this and had weeks to get a jump start when we saw what was happening in Italy and Spain yet the government sat on their hands and Johnson decided to take a holiday in the country while letting public gatherings continue and packed public transport. They didn’t use that time to stock up on PPE or increase testing. Now we’re seeing similar death tolls to Italy and Spain.

[Monkeys Fist 42457]

9 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

Is protecting the economy really a stick to beat them with? I'm already worried about my job. More than I am about dying anyway. I thought it was accepted that this thing was going to run riot anyway and that ensuring the NHS has capacity to deal with it was a good strategy. If they've achieved the latter then is it fair to make hypotheses about what the outcomes may have otherwise been? A lot of it feels like faux outrage.

Did you read the Times article PaddockLad posted the other day?  ( course you didn’t, you’re just after bites, here’s a big chomp from me then). 
It’ll explain why it’s not “faux outrage” to be angry that our PM couldn’t be bothered to attend 5 COBRA meetings about the threat from Corona virus, because he chillin’ with his bitch. 
Or that the fuckers who could be bothered to attend those meetings ignored the advice that multiple experts gave them, multiple times, about taking it seriously. 
Read it. 
Doesn’t blame China or 5G though. 

[Rayvin 5223]

Seriously read that Times article. However "not so bad" you might feel it is, it's still worse than it had to be.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

3 minutes ago, ewerk said:

That wasn’t the strategy to begin with. The plan was to let everyone have it and the inevitable deaths were just collateral damage.

We has months to prepare for this and had weeks to get a jump start when we saw what was happening in Italy and Spain yet the government sat on their hands and Johnson decided to take a holiday in the country while letting public gatherings continue and packed public transport. They didn’t use that time to stock up on PPE or increase testing. Now we’re seeing similar death tolls to Italy and Spain.

 

Fair enough. Is the PPE issue a government level failing or a NHS management issue?

[Monkeys Fist 42457]

2 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Fair enough. Is the PPE issue a government level failing or a NHS management issue?

You can’t manage what you don’t have. 
Govt. issue. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

2 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Did you read the Times article PaddockLad posted the other day?  ( course you didn’t, you’re just after bites, here’s a big chomp from me then). 
It’ll explain why it’s not “faux outrage” to be angry that our PM couldn’t be bothered to attend 5 COBRA meetings about the threat from Corona virus, because he chillin’ with his bitch. 
Or that the fuckers who could be bothered to attend those meetings ignored the advice that multiple experts gave them, multiple times, about taking it seriously. 
Read it. 
Doesn’t blame China or 5G though. 

 

Well I did read it, I just think it would have been more damning if it was published in a losing battle. I'm just trying to take a balanced view on it all. I don't have to subscribe to the polar political arguments.

[ewerk 30616]

5 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Fair enough. Is the PPE issue a government level failing or a NHS management issue?

Government.

[Rayvin 5223]

1 minute ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Well I did read it, I just think it would have been more damning if it was published in a losing battle. I'm just trying to take a balanced view on it all. I don't have to subscribe to the polar political arguments.

 

You shouldn't subscribe to the polar political arguments at all. I said a few weeks back that once the government realised that this was actually something they had to deal with, their response, especially that of the chancellor, was pretty solid.

 

Unfortunately it's not that period that has cost us. It's the weeks of dithering and then the overall lack of readiness in the system following years of austerity. I am totally open to someone telling me how that is not a factor in this because x,y,z but so far no one has.

 

Austerity has been the bane of everything in recent years and this is just another example of it.

 

Roll on Brexit.

[Rayvin 5223]

I'm also curious what a 'losing battle' is, for you - it was never going to kill everyone. This whole thing was about stopping the NHS being overwhelmed. To do that, they've had to decimate the country's economy - had they not brought the health service to its knees, maybe your job and our collective future prospects would have been a lot safer. Maybe this wouldn't have been necessary, or at least not as severe.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Rayvin

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

18 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I'm also curious what a 'losing battle' is, for you - it was never going to kill everyone. This whole thing was about stopping the NHS being overwhelmed. To do that, they've had to decimate the country's economy - had they not brought the health service to its knees, maybe your job and our collective future prospects would have been a lot safer. Maybe this wouldn't have been necessary, or at least not as severe.

 

Easy with hindsight though isn't it? Not sure whether earlier lockdown would have been a good or bad thing. Would these deaths not have happened anyway just over a longer wraught-out timeframe if we'd locked down earlier? That's not me saying they would have, I'm asking.

[Renton 21627]

They fucked on lock down. They fucked up on testing. They fucked up on PPE. Despite having 2 weeks warning from Italy. The result? The worse death rate per capita of any large developed  country in the world. I would say that was losing, big style. It's fucking disgusting. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Renton

[Rayvin 5223]

2 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Easy with hindsight though isn't it? Not sure whether earlier lockdown would have been a good or bad thing. Would these deaths not have happened anyway just over a longer wraught-out timeframe if we'd locked down earlier? That's not me saying they would have, I'm asking.

 

I'm not even really saying an earlier lockdown would have been an improvement, I'm saying an earlier response to the whole situation, buying equipment, not sending the limited equipment that we had out to China, using proper suppliers instead of Brexit backing manufacturers - all of that would have helped.

 

Listening to the report in 2016 that revealed that the NHS was woefully underprepared instead of burying it because "it was too terrifying for the public to see".

 

There are many failures that span many Tory governments. I'm not saying it's all Johnson's fault, although he failed in his role here, by not acting quickly enough or taking the threat seriously.

 

It's not hindsight if you run a risk assessment in 2016 that highlights everything that would go wrong in a pandemic, ignore it, and then have everything that the risk assessment flagged up, actually go wrong in real life. That's not hindsight. It's incompetence. It's actually dereliction of duty if you ask me.

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

They fucked on lock down. They fucked up on testing. They fucked up on PPE. Despite having 2 weeks warning from Italy. The result? The worse death rate per capita of any large developed  country in the world. I would say that was losing, big style. It's fucking disgusting. 

 

Does how densely populated we are need consideration as a mitigating factor? I always felt we were more vulnerable than other nations

[Rayvin 5223]

1 minute ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Does how densely populated we are need consideration as a mitigating factor? I always felt we were more vulnerable than other nations

 

The government certainly didn't.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

'Why did the Corona Virus which orginated in Wuhan, China cause such widespread outbreak in a distant, other continent country like Italy?

The answer is that Italy has a strong textile garment industry trade realtion with China escapecily witht he Wuhan provine in China

100,000 Chinese workers work in the Textile Industry in Italy (esp. Northern Italy)

Italy even has direct flights from Wuhan

Northen Italy has a huge Chinese immigrant population, many of who travelled from Wuhan. Instead of testing and restricting these people, Italian authorities launched 'Hug a Chinese' campaign in February. They are now paying the price. "I'm not a virus, I'm a human. Eradicate the prejudice" . THis was the message of videos released in northern Itlay in February this year, urging Italians to hug Chinese people to encourage them in the fight against the coronavirus.

Moreover, Chinese New Year 2020 was celebrated from Jan 25 to Feb 8. So many of these Chinese Immigrants went home from Italy to Wuhan to celebrate Chinese New Year with their families. When they returned after their leave, they were not tested in Italy airports.'

[Renton 21627]

9 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Does how densely populated we are need consideration as a mitigating factor? I always felt we were more vulnerable than other nations

What, more densely populated than Hong Kong, Japan, or Germany? We had prior warning from Italy, we ignored it, literally fucking ignored it. Its ridiculous to say we needed hindsight not to go ahead with Chelrenham etc. What the government did was nothing short of murderous. 

[Renton 21627]

4 minutes ago, Anorthernsoul said:

'Why did the Corona Virus which orginated in Wuhan, China cause such widespread outbreak in a distant, other continent country like Italy?

The answer is that Italy has a strong textile garment industry trade realtion with China escapecily witht he Wuhan provine in China

100,000 Chinese workers work in the Textile Industry in Italy (esp. Northern Italy)

Italy even has direct flights from Wuhan

Northen Italy has a huge Chinese immigrant population, many of who travelled from Wuhan. Instead of testing and restricting these people, Italian authorities launched 'Hug a Chinese' campaign in February. They are now paying the price. "I'm not a virus, I'm a human. Eradicate the prejudice" . THis was the message of videos released in northern Itlay in February this year, urging Italians to hug Chinese people to encourage them in the fight against the coronavirus.

Moreover, Chinese New Year 2020 was celebrated from Jan 25 to Feb 8. So many of these Chinese Immigrants went home from Italy to Wuhan to celebrate Chinese New Year with their families. When they returned after their leave, they were not tested in Italy airports.'

 

We're still not testing anybody at airports, including flights from hot spots.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

8 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

We're still not testing anybody at airports, including flights from hot spots.

 

Ridiculous.

[trophyshy 7083]

Brexit must happen irrespective of the significant and long term cost to our economy.

 

Also, tens of thousands must die so that the economy is protected.

 

 

[NJS 4386]