ewerk 30619 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 30 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said: PSG game suspended because the 4th official referred to one of the Istanbul coaches as "that black guy"... Is that racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30619 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 56 minutes ago, ewerk said: Fuckers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne 87 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 34 minutes ago, ewerk said: Is that racism? If that's not, then what is racism? He could say "that man" or something else.. He said exactly "negru", not negro. It's meaning black guy in Romanian language. But, doesn't matter anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7030 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 58 minutes ago, ewerk said: Is that racism? Yes. In the same way that John Terry calling Anton Ferdinand a "black cunt" is racist. The "black" is superfluous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 7295 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 It's an interpretation, the initial meaning of racism was the inference or statement of the inferiority of a race. The modern interpretation has expanded that to include more or less any reference to a person's ethnicity, race or religion whether implicitly negative or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7030 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 Also I'm not sure 3 middle class white blokes are best placed to tell people of other races what is and isn't classed as racism ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30619 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 No, a player seeking competitive advantage and accusing someone of racism whose first language is Romanian completely outranks me. Other than identify the individual as black did he say anything offensive? I’m genuinely curious as I haven’t heard a full report on events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7030 Posted December 8, 2020 Share Posted December 8, 2020 We can disagree, it's allowed. I think you're wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30619 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 First time for everything I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30619 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Well I will withdraw the allegation that there is any intent to gain competitive advantage. I’m sure the outrage is genuine but whether it’s justified remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35093 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said: Also I'm not sure 3 middle class white blokes are best placed to tell people of other races what is and isn't classed as racism ... Shut up then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 33240 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 10 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said: Also I'm not sure 3 middle class white blokes are best placed to tell people of other races what is and isn't classed as racism ... What about white upper class or white working class? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7030 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 43 minutes ago, Alex said: Shut up then Nah. Insinuating that someone who got upset at being referred to by the colour of his skin is a bit precious, or trying to gain a sporting advantage stinks tbh. He's chance to have been called a ni**er his entire life so he's allowed to be sensitive about it. It's the same shit seeping through on Facebook and Twitter everyday. It's fine to boo black players taking the knee because BLM is a Marxist front. Bollocks. You're allowed to refer to someone as black in the same way as you would call them blonde or brunette. Bollocks There's a gentle slide in this country towards casual racism becoming socially acceptable again. Probably by design. And if I have to get all virtue signalling to point it out then that's a cross I'm willing to bear 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17280 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 17 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said: What about white upper class or white working class? The fuck thinks they’re upper class on here?... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30619 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Paging @The Fish 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30619 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said: Nah. Insinuating that someone who got upset at being referred to by the colour of his skin is a bit precious, or trying to gain a sporting advantage stinks tbh. He's chance to have been called a ni**er his entire life so he's allowed to be sensitive about it. It's the same shit seeping through on Facebook and Twitter everyday. It's fine to boo black players taking the knee because BLM is a Marxist front. Bollocks. You're allowed to refer to someone as black in the same way as you would call them blonde or brunette. Bollocks There's a gentle slide in this country towards casual racism becoming socially acceptable again. Probably by design. And if I have to get all virtue signalling to point it out then that's a cross I'm willing to bear 😉 My understanding of the incident (and I could well be wrong) is that the assistant manager got in a row with the fourth official and the ref came over to find out what happened and when he asked which coach was causing the bother the fourth official said 'the black one'. It isn't acceptable to refer to someone by the colour of their skin these days but similarly what he did doesn't qualify him for membership of the KKK. To abandon the match over it seems to be an overreaction. It may well be that something much more offensive was said but that's all we know so far. Edited December 9, 2020 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7030 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, ewerk said: My understanding of the incident (and I could well be wrong) is that the assistant manager got in a row with the fourth official and the ref came over to find out what happened and when he asked which coach was causing the bother the fourth official said 'the black one'. It isn't acceptable to refer to someone by the colour of their skin these days but similarly what he did doesn't qualify him for membership of the KKK. To abandon the match over it seems to be an overreaction. It may well be that something much more offensive was said but that's all we know so far. I don't think anyone's accusing him of goose-stepping down the touch line. But my original reply was in response you your question, "is that racism?". And by your own admission, it isn't acceptable to say that in 2020. I've got no doubt there was no explicit malice in what he said. But he's an idiot. I struggle to believe UEFA referees and officials haven't had 100 workshops, emails, conference calls on how to manage incidents of racism during a match. And it just becomes more ammunition now for the Tommy Brigade to shout about woke, lefty snowflakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17280 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 12 hours ago, ewerk said: Is that racism? John Barnes says no. He’s been talking about taking the knee for about a week now on Twitter. Looks like he was up at 5am to take up this latest controversy this morning too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30619 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said: I don't think anyone's accusing him of goose-stepping down the touch line. But my original reply was in response you your question, "is that racism?". And by your own admission, it isn't acceptable to say that in 2020. Something not being acceptable to say doesn't necessarily make it racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Would he have said "the white one" though? There's a possible argument I guess that if you were in a majority black country and wanted to identify an individual who was white, that you would indeed say 'the white one', but I'm still not sure that this makes it right. The argument I believe is that people of colour never get to escape from being "the black one" in white society. Why not "the guy on the right", or "the taller one" or whatever. The fact that his skin colour comes up so readily as a descriptive tool is probably the problem here. I've certainly said "the black guy" in the past for this kind of situation, but I actively try to avoid doing so now that I've been a bit more broadly informed on the issue. I mean it doesn't really hurt to just come up with something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13873 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 If there was one white bloke amongst a group of black blokes, then he probably would have said “the white one” tbf. Luckily for us, footballs systemic racism will never make that a reality from a coaching standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7030 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Interesting debate either way. Getting off my soap box I can see it from both sides. I guess the difference between being "the white guy" vs "the black guy" is that white people haven't been persecuted for centuries for the colour of their skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7083 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 He should have said "not the white ones". Easy. Or maybe they could conduct an impromptu game of guess who. "Is he wearing a blue tie?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35093 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kid Dynamite said: Nah. Insinuating that someone who got upset at being referred to by the colour of his skin is a bit precious, or trying to gain a sporting advantage stinks tbh. He's chance to have been called a ni**er his entire life so he's allowed to be sensitive about it. It's the same shit seeping through on Facebook and Twitter everyday. It's fine to boo black players taking the knee because BLM is a Marxist front. Bollocks. You're allowed to refer to someone as black in the same way as you would call them blonde or brunette. Bollocks There's a gentle slide in this country towards casual racism becoming socially acceptable again. Probably by design. And if I have to get all virtue signalling to point it out then that's a cross I'm willing to bear 😉 It was tongue in cheek but saying they can’t comment is essentially saying you can’t either. I tend to think it’s ‘mild’ racism or (at best) unconscious bias on the part of the official. ‘Black lad’ is the type of phrase I might have used in the past but I wouldn’t use it now. If it slipped out and offended someone I would probably be horrified and would certainly be very apologetic rather than trying to use the cultural excuse the official did. But surely it’s good it’s discussed. You’re essentially closing down the debate by saying they can’t comment on what is or isn’t racist. Comparing them / justifying that using the example of people who are clearly racist on social media isn’t exactly helpful either imo. You know they are not like that too. And while I recognise what you’re saying about racism becoming more ‘acceptable’ in some ways in society, at the same time the comments wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow not too long ago Edited December 9, 2020 by Alex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7030 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 58 minutes ago, Alex said: It was tongue in cheek but saying they can’t comment is essentially saying you can’t either. I tend to think it’s ‘mild’ racism or (at best) unconscious bias on the part of the official. ‘Black lad’ is the type of phrase I might have used in the past but I wouldn’t use it now. If it slipped out and offended someone I would probably be horrified and would certainly be very apologetic rather than trying to use the cultural excuse the official did. But surely it’s good it’s discussed. You’re essentially closing down the debate by saying they can’t comment on what is or isn’t racist. Comparing them / justifying that using the example of people who are clearly racist on social media isn’t exactly helpful either imo. You know they are not like that too. And while I recognise what you’re saying about racism becoming more ‘acceptable’ in some ways in society, at the same time the comments wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow not too long ago I didn't tell anybody they couldn't comment on it. I said we weren't best placed to tell somebody who believes he has been the subject of racism that he hasn't. Anymore than as an Uber straight sex god, could I comment to a member of the LGBTQ community what does and doesn't constitute homophobic or transphobic abuse. I personally think, unless you've lived as a person of colour and experienced the daily implicit and explicit effects of racism, it makes it more difficult to dispute the views of someone that has. Unless you're John Barnes Im still happy to debate it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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