Allan Saint-Maximin

[Craig 6700]

It's not all about the stats, it's how he fits into the team and it's clear from the body language that it's not working and he's not looking to be part of Howe's plans. I think we all have to accept his days are numbered whether we agree with it or not.

 

Talking about stats, I got wind on Sunday that the lad who plays up front for me was on a promise of £50 from his old man if he scored a hat-trick - this despite the fact I told all players and parents I wouldn't entertain any form of individualism in such an important game. Didn't bother to confront it, instead I subbed him straight after he scored his second goal at which point I very quickly found out the deal was indeed true. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Craig

[Dr Gloom 22147]

1 hour ago, The Fish said:

With a higher xG, so that means it's not just daisy cutters but better than anyone else in the team.

 

[wykikitoon 20713]

He's also #1 for losing the ball and moaning like a fucking fanny

[The Fish 10963]

15 minutes ago, Craig said:

It's not all about the stats, it's how he fits into the team and it's clear from the body language that it's not working and he's not looking to be part of Howe's plans. I think we all have to accept his days are numbered whether we agree with it or not.

 

Talking about stats, I got wind on Sunday that the lad who plays up front for me was on a promise of £50 from his old man if he scored a hat-trick - this despite the fact I told all players and parents I wouldn't any form of individualism in such an important game. Didn't bother to confront it, instead I subbed him straight after he scored his second goal at which point I very quickly found out the deal was indeed true. 

 

I agree with that, his performances since Howe aren't at the same level as they were under Bruce. But how much of that is because he's now no longer Plan A (B and C)? And how much of it is because we haven't had Wilson fit? Is he guilty of being greedy? Absolutely, but I'd be less likely to attempt a pass if all I see in the centre is Wood, Almiron, Joelinton, etc. 

 

I agree that his days are numbers, but to be honest everyone bar Bruno would be wise to see what his options are. 

 

However, the narrative is that he's not a threat, that he's lazy, that he doesn't create anything etc. This isn't true.

[The Fish 10963]

25 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

 

Cry me a river, MSM-er.

 

17 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

He's also #1 for losing the ball and moaning like a fucking fanny

On your two points

1. Yes he is.

2. Yes he is.

 

But, in his role, he's way more likely to lose the ball than pretty much anyone else. And I want him to moan like a fanny. Might get us a freekick for nowt. 

 

Honestly people need to get a grip, ASM is a really talented attacking threat, but if he was a) consistent, b) good at defending, c) more generous, he wouldn't have signed for Mike Ashley's Newcastle United under the stewardship of Steve fucking Bruce. There's a reason why bigger clubs have swerved him. But we're not yet better than him. Sure if someone throws £40m at us, take it, but he's not the first one out of the door.

 

 

[wykikitoon 20713]

14 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

I agree with that, his performances since Howe aren't at the same level as they were under Bruce. But how much of that is because he's now no longer Plan A (B and C)? And how much of it is because we haven't had Wilson fit? Is he guilty of being greedy? Absolutely, but I'd be less likely to attempt a pass if all I see in the centre is Wood, Almiron, Joelinton, etc. 

 

I agree that his days are numbers, but to be honest everyone bar Bruno would be wise to see what his options are. 

 

However, the narrative is that he's not a threat, that he's lazy, that he doesn't create anything etc. This isn't true.

 

So you're blaming Wilson for losing the ball? Running into blind allys, not tracking back?  Bit harsh init?

He hasn't upped his game on bit.  His attitude stinks.  He's a sulking fuck.

[Howay 12496]

A lot of those stats aren’t impressive though. Like ranking 38th for assists, 46th for passes into the box etc, that’s a lot of players out of 20 teams above him especially considering for half the season the attack was aimed completely through him. A lot of the stats will be skewed that he’s played more than others too. His crossing stats are the stuff of nightmares too if we add them in. 
 

To be fair to him he absolutely does create chances, the issue is he lowers the chances with his own actions at times - it’s not always just Chris Wood being a donkey. He delays passes making it harder, or makes the wrong choice I.e shoots himself when the passing option would score, or Vice versa. He very regularly goes on runs and takes 2 players out the game and the pass for a great goal is on but his heads still just down and he continues to just lose the ball. Those increase his xA or chance creation type stats but he’s at fault - and the issue is he’s not improving in these choices he’s continuing the same way and now blaming others. 
 

His dribbling stats are borderline meaningless imo. He sprints off with the ball every fucking time he touches it, if every other attacking player in the league did that he’d not be top and iirc he isn’t top for successful dribbles as a % of total dribbles. 
 

If he was anywhere close to the player people frame him to be someone would have been in for him now surely? Maybe that’s not a fair statement but I really do question why if he’s this really effective player that’s the best dribbler in the league nobody has put a bid in.

 

I also disagree he was better under Bruce. This is his best season for us, it’s just now people are frustrated as instead of his runs being a “may as well give it a go” type of thing it’s often massively missed opportunities.

 

All those stats also don’t factor in that to be top of those things he completely fucking disregards his defensive duty, compare that to Fraser, Almiron, and Murphy who are the players his stats are compared to. He gives the ball away loads and fucking refuses to adapt due to game situation - continues to try and skin players in our own half when we are a goal up late in the game. 
 

He’s a 5 a side player. I know others feel another way, but I really find him frustrating and not exciting to watch now, no amount of stats saying he dribbles past more people change that for me. I think we are a better team without him. 

[Dr Gloom 22147]

ASM doesn't score many but his expected goals are great 

[Howay 12496]

8 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 Sure if someone throws £40m at us, take it, but he's not the first one out of the door.

 

I think this is where the discussion gets confused. Many like me are taking issue with the calls to build a team around ASM, that’s what I’m arguing against. As I’ve said I really don’t like watching him in our team but I’ll concede there’s more pressing issues in the team - but my point is purely that he’s absolutely not the player to build a top side around. Which you’ve pointed out already with regard to saying he’d be at a better side if he did the things he needs to do. 

[wykikitoon 20713]

9 minutes ago, Howay said:

I think this is where the discussion gets confused. Many like me are taking issue with the calls to build a team around ASM, that’s what I’m arguing against. As I’ve said I really don’t like watching him in our team but I’ll concede there’s more pressing issues in the team - but my point is purely that he’s absolutely not the player to build a top side around. Which you’ve pointed out already with regard to saying he’d be at a better side if he did the things he needs to do. 

Basically if he was at a better side he wouldnt be there, but hes here because were not and we need to keep him because the stats say that we cant be better without him.

Or some bollocks like that.

[spongebob toonpants 4132]

I quite like him but the truth is he will either have to play much better to have a place in the team or he'll be out.

The one thing that isn't going to happen is him guaranteed a place in the team but being shite.

Either option good by me

[The Fish 10963]

27 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

 

So you're blaming Wilson for losing the ball? Running into blind allys, not tracking back?  Bit harsh init?

He hasn't upped his game on bit.  His attitude stinks.  He's a sulking fuck.

 

This got a genuine nose-pinch, deep-sigh reaction from me. 

 

No, it's not Wilson's fault. I'm saying that, Wood, Joelinton, Almiron, Longstaff, are not very good at finishing chances. Had Wilson (or dare I say it Dwight Gayle) been fit and preferred, I'd expect ASM to have more assists than he does, and to attempt more assists than he already does. 

 

I don't expect ASM to track back because that's not his game, I don't see you digging out Burn for failing to dribble past a couple of players and put in a cross.

 

No his game hasn't improved as much as some others' has, but then his game was good whereas others' was fucking awful.

His attitude is fine, it's only people demanding the moon on a fucking stick who're painting him as some sulking moody cunt. 

[ewerk 31195]

2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I don't expect ASM to track back because that's not his game

 

That's not his game? It needs to be his fucking game. It needs to be the way all our 11 players work. 

[Dr Gloom 22147]

Just now, ewerk said:

 

That's not his game? It needs to be his fucking game. It needs to be the way all our 11 players work. 

that’s the thing, if he doesn’t add that side to his game then he can forget about comparing himself to mane. He’ll be destined to be the star man in a poor team  

[The Fish 10963]

30 minutes ago, Howay said:

I think this is where the discussion gets confused. Many like me are taking issue with the calls to build a team around ASM, that’s what I’m arguing against. As I’ve said I really don’t like watching him in our team but I’ll concede there’s more pressing issues in the team - but my point is purely that he’s absolutely not the player to build a top side around. Which you’ve pointed out already with regard to saying he’d be at a better side if he did the things he needs to do. 

 

Aye, the player we build a team around is Bruno. Everyone else, and I do mean everyone, is replaceable in the summer window for all I care.

 

However, the mooks on here moaning about a flair player we signed when we were turboshit not being the complete package, is idiotic.

 

19 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Basically if he was at a better side he wouldnt be there, but hes here because were not and we need to keep him because the stats say that we cant be better without him.

Or some bollocks like that.

 

Jesus Christ Wykiki, that is some unrelenting stream of horseshit and no mistake.

 

[The Fish 10963]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

That's not his game? It needs to be his fucking game. It needs to be the way all our 11 players work. 

 

Why? 

 

Genuinely, why is there an expectation that a flair player at a lower Premier League team is the complete package, but the defensive players get a pass? There's some alternate universe where Targett is pilloried for failing to dribble past three men with fancy footwork.

 

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

that’s the thing, if he doesn’t add that side to his game then he can forget about comparing himself to mane. He’ll be destined to be the star man in a poor team  

He is the star man of a poor team (or was), he'll end up getting sold to Watford or similar, then going back to France and dazzling for a season, then bumbling down the leagues. 

 

However, he's still the most creative, most dangerous, biggest threat we've got and unless we sign someone like Paqueta or Blas, he will remain so because there's nobody at the club who comes close to him in those regards.

[wykikitoon 20713]

2 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

This got a genuine nose-pinch, deep-sigh reaction from me. 

 

No, it's not Wilson's fault. I'm saying that, Wood, Joelinton, Almiron, Longstaff, are not very good at finishing chances. Had Wilson (or dare I say it Dwight Gayle) been fit and preferred, I'd expect ASM to have more assists than he does, and to attempt more assists than he already does. 

 

I don't expect ASM to track back because that's not his game, I don't see you digging out Burn for failing to dribble past a couple of players and put in a cross.

 

No his game hasn't improved as much as some others' has, but then his game was good whereas others' was fucking awful.

His attitude is fine, it's only people demanding the moon on a fucking stick who're painting him as some sulking moody cunt. 

 

 

 

Since Howe took over, us we have scored 25 goals.  Of them 25 goals, ASM has assisted the massive number of 3.  That's 2 goals and 1 assist.  Schar a DEFENDER has better xGI stats or whatever you post.  2 goals and 2 assists.

[Dr Gloom 22147]

15 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

Why? 

 

Genuinely, why is there an expectation that a flair player at a lower Premier League team is the complete package, but the defensive players get a pass? There's some alternate universe where Targett is pilloried for failing to dribble past three men with fancy footwork.

 

He is the star man of a poor team (or was), he'll end up getting sold to Watford or similar, then going back to France and dazzling for a season, then bumbling down the leagues. 

 

However, he's still the most creative, most dangerous, biggest threat we've got and unless we sign someone like Paqueta or Blas, he will remain so because there's nobody at the club who comes close to him in those regards.

he is destined to remain the star man in a poor side unless he learns how to do the other stuff.
 

shame really as he has as much natural skill on the ball as any player I’ve ever seen in a Newcastle shirt. It’s the comparatively easy stuff - like tracking runners and knowing when to play a pass  - that seems beyond him . if he could learn that stuff he would have a future in this Newcastle side. If he doesn’t sort it out, he won’t.
 

It’s up to him. But he hasn’t done himself any favours with his recent performances. 

[ewerk 31195]

14 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

Why? 

 

Genuinely, why is there an expectation that a flair player at a lower Premier League team is the complete package, but the defensive players get a pass? There's some alternate universe where Targett is pilloried for failing to dribble past three men with fancy footwork.

 

I'm not expecting him to be excellent defensively but I am asking for some effort. The aim is the same at any PL, you need 11 men to give 100%. If you look at our winning run a short time ago it wasn't because we had more talent than the opposition, it was because we outworked them. How many times did we hear that our opponents had an off day? It was because we made them have an off day.

[Alex 35572]

I think Howay mentioned the stats don’t tell the whole story because you can play a pass to someone that theoretically creates a chance but the quality / timing of the pass makes it more difficult. He’s very proficient in the art of that 

[wykikitoon 20713]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

I'm not expecting him to be excellent defensively but I am asking for some effort. The aim is the same at any PL, you need 11 men to give 100%. If you look at our winning run a short time ago it wasn't because we had more talent than the opposition, it was because we outworked them. How many times did we hear that our opponents had an off day? It was because we made them have an off day.

Simple things like Sunday when he let Cancelo run into the area and head to Sterling which lead to a goal.  DESPITE it happening minutes before.

[The Fish 10963]

23 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

 

 

 

Since Howe took over, us we have scored 25 goals.  Of them 25 goals, ASM has assisted the massive number of 3.  That's 2 goals and 1 assist.  Schar a DEFENDER has better xGI stats or whatever you post.  2 goals and 2 assists.

 

 No he fucking doesn't you big old 'can't understand xG' dumdum.

 

This season;

ASM has 4 assists and his expected Assists is 5.2, he has 5 goals and his expected Goals is 4.9

Schar has 2 assists and his expected Assists is 0.6, he has 2 goals and his expected Goals is 1.3

 

What this means is ASM has laid on more good chances than his teammates have finished, and has scored more goals than you'd expect from the chances he's had.

Schar has laid on fuck all chances, but somehow has 2 assists, and he's scored more goals than you'd expect from the chances he's had.

 

One of Schar's "assists" was when Pope bounced the ball off his unsuspecting head for Wilson to get our first win of the season against Burnley, hardly inspiring creative play. It's rare that I can, in all honestly claim this, but I literally could have done what Schar did for that goal. The other was, fair play, when he brought the ball out of defence for the counter which sent Willock through for our second against Brentford.

 

 

[The Fish 10963]

26 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

he is destined to remain the star man in a poor side unless he learns how to do the other stuff.
 

shame really as he has as much natural skill on the ball as any player I’ve ever seen in a Newcastle shirt. It’s the comparatively easy stuff - like tracking runners and knowing when to play a pass  - that seems beyond him . if he could learn that stuff he would have a future in this Newcastle side. If he doesn’t sort it out, he won’t.
 

It’s up to him. But he hasn’t done himself any favours with his recent performances. 

 

Oh I think he 100% is destined to remain at the level we were when he signed for us. He doesn't consistently make good decisions when in good positions. He's 24 now, I would be surprised if he learned the vision and alacrity of thought that that requires. 

 

26 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

I'm not expecting him to be excellent defensively but I am asking for some effort. The aim is the same at any PL, you need 11 men to give 100%. If you look at our winning run a short time ago it wasn't because we had more talent than the opposition, it was because we outworked them. How many times did we hear that our opponents had an off day? It was because we made them have an off day.

 

I'm not expecting 100% defensive effort from our mercurial, flair, Fancy Dan, lookatme-lookatme, French winger, and honestly I can't understand why anyone does. Same happened with Ben Arfa, Robert, Ginola. Same people bitching about ASM's lack of graft are the ones bitching about Almiron's inability to go past someone.

[Dr Gloom 22147]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

 

Oh I think he 100% is destined to remain at the level we were when he signed for us. He doesn't consistently make good decisions when in good positions. He's 24 now, I would be surprised if he learned the vision and alacrity of thought that that requires. 

 

 

I'm not expecting 100% defensive effort from our mercurial, flair, Fancy Dan, lookatme-lookatme, French winger, and honestly I can't understand why anyone does. Same happened with Ben Arfa, Robert, Ginola. Same people bitching about ASM's lack of graft are the ones bitching about Almiron's inability to go past someone.

the stuff we’re talking about is the easy stuff to coach and learn. It’s about him and his attitude. It’s what separates the top Man City and Liverpool forwards from the show ponies. They do the work off the ball and play for the team. I hope the penny drops for ASM. It isn’t too late for him at 24 years of age. 

[The Fish 10963]

11 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

the stuff we’re talking about is the easy stuff to coach and learn. It’s about him and his attitude. It’s what separates the top Man City and Liverpool forwards from the show ponies. They do the work off the ball and play for the team. I hope the penny drops for ASM. It isn’t too late for him at 24 years of age. 

I dunno, it's the trade off for a team that was where we were. You can either have a Fancy-Dan, or a grafter, if you find someone with both you won't have him for long. 

 

I just enjoy them while they're here and don't mind if they're not also doing the job of the midfield and defenders, just like I don't mind if Dummett isn't weaving his way through tackles to set up a shot.